Help : Technical Specification of the Frets of Epiphone DR100

[Steven Bayes]

I have an acoustic guitar Epiphone DR 100 NA with a serial number : 1205115240, Made in China, 2 to 4 years old.

 

I need the full technical specifications of frets 12th through 16th, mainly the angle of curvature which should be the same as the angle of curvature of the fretboard.

 

I prefer documentation from the company but measured data is also welcome.

 

Please, see the attachment.

 

I wrote to the company, Epiphone Gibson, twice and requested the full technical specifications of the frets. I have not had an answer for nearly two weeks.

 

Steven Stanley Bayes

Fret.doc

[rct]

I know nobody is answering you and that isn't good, but the answer isn't real good either I guess. Nobody has Technical Specifications for the frets on a ~$125 guitar. The fretwire rolls off spools and the people that hammer them in have no idea what size they are.

 

I don't think you are going to find what you seek. You would be better off just getting them dressed by someone that knows what they are doing if the guitar means that much to you.

 

Good luck with it.

 

rct

[Steven Bayes]

I know nobody is answering you and that isn't good, but the answer isn't real good either I guess. Nobody has Technical Specifications for the frets on a ~$125 guitar. The fretwire rolls off spools and the people that hammer them in have no idea what size they are.

 

I don't think you are going to find what you seek. You would be better off just getting them dressed by someone that knows what they are doing if the guitar means that much to you.

 

Good luck with it.

 

rct

 

Yes. You are right. I am the right person for the job and I can do this with eyes closed. HOEVER, NO ONE IN THE WORLD CAN DO THIS JOB WITHOUT THE EXACT TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS OF THE FRETS. Luthiers usually do lousy jobs by guts. I would rather have their gut problems to the proctologists.

 

I am not interested in measurements by calipers which I have already done. I am interested in professional job which can only be done with the exact part and not any other.

 

Regardless how expensive the guitar is, the guitar has been designed by Epiphone or a contractor thereof and they have provided the design specifications to Epiphone as they are the ones who own the intellectual property. Therefore, Epiphone does have the technical specifications for sure. However, their bureaucracy still cannot find them. I understand bureaucracy is slow but not as slow as they are.

 

And Epiphone is Gibson but they may have different departments.

 

Please, understand : people who can be classified as " knowledgeable " by your standards are amateurs who just look, measure with a caliper and do. This is good for car mechanics but not for a guitar.

 

As far as guitars and prices go, you seem to have opinions from the 60's. Most expensive guitars now are worse than most inexpensive. The price is only for the name and for the statement : Made in U. S. A. where the same amateurs work the same production lines as everywhere in the world. They are even worse in the US because they lack understanding unlike in other countries.

[rct]

Well, hopefully your people skills will get you that data you need there chief.

 

rct

[Steven Bayes]

Well, hopefully your people skills will get you that data you need there chief.

 

rct

 

These are the people of Epiphone which is either the same other Gibsons or is a separate department of Gibson.

 

I expected you to say the knowledgeable people usually use a thicker tang and or bigger tang teeth because the wood cuts have been enlarged by pulling the old frets. Although I wish to be very careful when pulling the old frets, this may be a problem. The knowledgeable people use two tiny drops of superglue which I try to avoid. Although the drops are supposed to be tiny and although the superglue may not penetrate through the rosewood fingerboard, still, superglue screws up any future possibility to refret.

 

I may look to get the same frets as per the spec but with thicker tang and or bigger tang teeth. This is the professional approach. This approach relies on the fact the cuts would definitely be enlarged and the new teeth would hit exactly the same where the old were. This does not seem very possible.

 

However, there is another approach which I have just " invented " : Use original frets and insert them one after another. For every one, see whether the fret is loose. Extract the loose fret. Prepare to put a new one. Take another original. Use a powerful soldering iron and put a drop of solderer or two on the tang teeth. Heat the fret up before solder. Should works perfectly on Brass, best on Copper.

 

I will see whether this works. Still, better than superglue or any other glue. Hopefully, I will not need to do so as the originals will be tight enough.

 

Another way is to use superglue on the tang heavily and to wait the superglue to cure fully. Then, the superglue adds width ( just like plastic ) and does NOT glue the fret to the wood. This is the better way to use superglue. The same principle as solderer. Luthiers, however, do glue the frets. This is why I hate guitar repair professionals. I give them, however, they use an incredibly tiny amount of superglue, only two tiny drops of, say, 1mm diameter.

 

I am angry because I am always recommended professionals instead of data on many forums. No one seems to understand the professionals are amateurs and the amateurs are professionals in guitar repair business.

[Steven Bayes]

These are the people of Epiphone which is either the same other Gibsons or is a separate department of Gibson.

 

I expected you to say the knowledgeable people usually use a thicker tang and or bigger tang teeth because the wood cuts have been enlarged by pulling the old frets. Although I wish to be very careful when pulling the old frets, this may be a problem. The knowledgeable people use two tiny drops of superglue which I try to avoid. Although the drops are supposed to be tiny and although the superglue may not penetrate through the rosewood fingerboard, still, superglue screws up any future possibility to refret.

 

I may look to get the same frets as per the spec but with thicker tang and or bigger tang teeth. This is the professional approach. This approach relies on the fact the cuts would definitely be enlarged and the new teeth would hit exactly the same where the old were. This does not seem very possible.

 

However, there is another approach which I have just " invented " : Use original frets and insert them one after another. For every one, see whether the fret is loose. Extract the loose fret. Prepare to put a new one. Take another original. Use a powerful soldering iron and put a drop of solderer or two on the tang teeth. Heat the fret up before solder. Should works perfectly on Brass, best on Copper.

 

I will see whether this works. Still, better than superglue or any other glue. Hopefully, I will not need to do so as the originals will be tight enough.

 

Another way is to use superglue on the tang heavily and to wait the superglue to cure fully. Then, the superglue adds width ( just like plastic ) and does NOT glue the fret to the wood. This is the better way to use superglue. The same principle as solderer. Luthiers, however, do glue the frets. This is why I hate guitar repair professionals. I give them, however, they use an incredibly tiny amount of superglue, only two tiny drops of, say, 1mm diameter.

 

I am angry because I am always recommended professionals instead of data on many forums. No one seems to understand the professionals are amateurs and the amateurs are professionals in guitar repair business.

 

Very thin copper wire for electronics can make two sits around the tang two. These two sits can be soldered or superglued to the tang under the crown. The effect is the same : they make the tang thicker. Again, the superglue must fully be cured before insertion.

[LPS1976]

if you have the measurements, what more technical specification would you need? If you replace the fret with a fret that is the same size and the guitar is playable; what would be the issue? are you replacing the frets because they are damaged? if you're already going through the trouble; why not replace them all?

[rct]

These are the people of Epiphone which is either the same other Gibsons or is a separate department of Gibson.

 

I expected you to say the knowledgeable people usually use a thicker tang and or bigger tang teeth because the wood cuts have been enlarged by pulling the old frets. Although I wish to be very careful when pulling the old frets, this may be a problem. The knowledgeable people use two tiny drops of superglue which I try to avoid. Although the drops are supposed to be tiny and although the superglue may not penetrate through the rosewood fingerboard, still, superglue screws up any future possibility to refret.

 

I may look to get the same frets as per the spec but with thicker tang and or bigger tang teeth. This is the professional approach. This approach relies on the fact the cuts would definitely be enlarged and the new teeth would hit exactly the same where the old were. This does not seem very possible.

 

However, there is another approach which I have just " invented " : Use original frets and insert them one after another. For every one, see whether the fret is loose. Extract the loose fret. Prepare to put a new one. Take another original. Use a powerful soldering iron and put a drop of solderer or two on the tang teeth. Heat the fret up before solder. Should works perfectly on Brass, best on Copper.

 

I will see whether this works. Still, better than superglue or any other glue. Hopefully, I will not need to do so as the originals will be tight enough.

 

Another way is to use superglue on the tang heavily and to wait the superglue to cure fully. Then, the superglue adds width ( just like plastic ) and does NOT glue the fret to the wood. This is the better way to use superglue. The same principle as solderer. Luthiers, however, do glue the frets. This is why I hate guitar repair professionals. I give them, however, they use an incredibly tiny amount of superglue, only two tiny drops of, say, 1mm diameter.

 

I am angry because I am always recommended professionals instead of data on many forums. No one seems to understand the professionals are amateurs and the amateurs are professionals in guitar repair business.

 

Brutha I been around guitars since 1971 and I've been playing for money since 1975, recorded, toured, all that stuff. I've had many dozens of guitars go through my hands and I've been around many professional fixers of guitars. They can tell you the fret wire from across the room and they can re-fret or replace the high ones, whatever you want to do, in half a day or so.

 

Your Epiphone has nothing special about it, same as any other guitar. There are a limited number of fret wires available. As the only pro that can do this, according to you, you should know this.

 

Yer overthinking the SH1T out of it. It's just a guitar. Millions have been successfully re-fretted and returned to their owners to immediately take it out and start wearing them out all over again. Who the eff are you to figure this out once and for all for all of us stupid a$$ guitar players and luthiers?

 

Your floggings at this post have already exceeded the cost and value of your guitar. You could have bought three more for the money you are spending on technical specifications that no decent luthier needs in order to do the job that only you can do. And as a sad side note, Gibson doesn't care. They don't have time to jump for every crackpot that demands answers on a 125 dollar consumer commodity.

 

Again, good luck with it.

 

 

rct

[Steven Bayes]

if you have the measurements, what more technical specification would you need? If you replace the fret with a fret that is the same size and the guitar is playable; what would be the issue? are you replacing the frets because they are damaged? if you're already going through the trouble; why not replace them all?

 

I do not want to replace all frets just because I have to replace 4 in order to save the effort and preserve the original frets.

 

Although frets can be filed and readjusted, the only way to ensure the guitar is the same as when purchased is to exactly know the accurate fret sizes. Although the sensitivity to exact fret sizes is not as high, most anything would work, the professional way is not to make the guitar work but to make the guitar exactly the same as new and, then, the guitar would also work.

 

The same way as you have stated there is no big deal to use most any similar fret, THERE IS NO BIG DEAL FOR EPIPHONE TO POST EXACT SPECIFICATIONS OF EVERY GUITAR THEY MAKE. This is because this job is done only once. They have to publish info on their web site for every guitar anyways and they do but, instead of useless information, they may spend another few seconds on the top of tens of minutes they spend to advertise their guitars and put the full technical specifications.

 

This will also bring them more customers, mainly those who want to be able to easily and accurately maintain their guitars as there is no price for accuracy in this case.

[Steven Bayes]

Brutha I been around guitars since 1971 and I've been playing for money since 1975, recorded, toured, all that stuff. I've had many dozens of guitars go through my hands and I've been around many professional fixers of guitars. They can tell you the fret wire from across the room and they can re-fret or replace the high ones, whatever you want to do, in half a day or so.

 

Your Epiphone has nothing special about it, same as any other guitar. There are a limited number of fret wires available. As the only pro that can do this, according to you, you should know this.

 

Yer overthinking the SH1T out of it. It's just a guitar. Millions have been successfully re-fretted and returned to their owners to immediately take it out and start wearing them out all over again. Who the eff are you to figure this out once and for all for all of us stupid a$$ guitar players and luthiers?

 

Your floggings at this post have already exceeded the cost and value of your guitar. You could have bought three more for the money you are spending on technical specifications that no decent luthier needs in order to do the job that only you can do. And as a sad side note, Gibson doesn't care. They don't have time to jump for every crackpot that demands answers on a 125 dollar consumer commodity.

 

Again, good luck with it.

 

 

rct

 

I am a person who knows the difference between correctly done work and incorrectly. What you suggest is an incorrect approach which, as in many other cases, is accepted by most. This is why you will be in guitars for many more years and you will continue to see incorrectly done jobs as you have been seeing for 45 years.

[rct]

I am a person who knows the difference between correctly done work and incorrectly. What you suggest is an incorrect approach which, as in many other cases, is accepted by most. This is why you will be in guitars for many more years and you will continue to see incorrectly done jobs as you have been seeing for 45 years.

 

Well thanks for setting me straight on all this.

 

rct

[LPS1976]

I do not want to replace all frets just because I have to replace 4 in order to save the effort and preserve the original frets.

 

Although frets can be filed and readjusted, the only way to ensure the guitar is the same as when purchased is to exactly know the accurate fret sizes. Although the sensitivity to exact fret sizes is not as high, most anything would work, the professional way is not to make the guitar work but to make the guitar exactly the same as new and, then, the guitar would also work.

 

The same way as you have stated there is no big deal to use most any similar fret, THERE IS NO BIG DEAL FOR EPIPHONE TO POST EXACT SPECIFICATIONS OF EVERY GUITAR THEY MAKE. This is because this job is done only once. They have to publish info on their web site for every guitar anyways and they do but, instead of useless information, they may spend another few seconds on the top of tens of minutes they spend to advertise their guitars and put the full technical specifications.

 

This will also bring them more customers, mainly those who want to be able to easily and accurately maintain their guitars as there is no price for accuracy in this case.

 

Yeah...posting exact technical specifications of the frets on a DR-100 would be kind of pointless. especially on low end models like this are made in several different factories who use hardware that may even be slightly different from one factory to another. in most cases (I would think), Epiphone tells the factory "medium fret wire" (or whatever it may be); then the factory finds the cheapest source for the wire. Epiphone would only be able to tell you exactly what was used if it was built at a Gibson owned factory. to my knowledge the DR-100 is not made at one of these factories.

 

the useless information you say they post on their web site is the only information most people care about. Does it have a solid top? back and sides? tuners? scale? nut size? these are things people buying their instruments care about. if you get the same size fret and make the guitar playable; it WILL be exactly the same as new.

[Cougar]

I do not want to replace all frets just because I have to replace 4 in order to save the effort and preserve the original frets.

 

Seems silly to go to the trouble when you can get a brand new DR100 for 90 bucks.

[SmokeyGhost]

Seems silly to go to the trouble when you can get a brand new DR100 for 90 bucks.

 

Yeah, some people - hopefully in the minority - get very annoyed and/or rude because the world does not operate in the way they think it should. It's not as if an Epi DR100, nice guitar though it is, will be a museum piece any time soon.

[LPS1976]

does anyone know the chemical makeup of the wood glue used on the DR-100?

[SmokeyGhost]

does anyone know the chemical makeup of the wood glue used on the DR-100?

 

I know where you're coming from, sir. :D

[Steven Bayes]

Yeah...posting exact technical specifications of the frets on a DR-100 would be kind of pointless. especially on low end models like this are made in several different factories who use hardware that may even be slightly different from one factory to another. in most cases (I would think), Epiphone tells the factory "medium fret wire" (or whatever it may be); then the factory finds the cheapest source for the wire. Epiphone would only be able to tell you exactly what was used if it was built at a Gibson owned factory. to my knowledge the DR-100 is not made at one of these factories.

 

the useless information you say they post on their web site is the only information most people care about. Does it have a solid top? back and sides? tuners? scale? nut size? these are things people buying their instruments care about. if you get the same size fret and make the guitar playable; it WILL be exactly the same as new.

 

These are all good points. However, I think, the factory arrangement is different. There may be one or a few Chinese companies who make fret wire which is what is considered standard in China. They would not want to make many sizes to keep production costs low. Some may have non standard fret wire to sell to people who have guitars which require this at high prices but for in China plants they would have an inexpensive serially manufacture fret wire in large volumes.

 

The closest standard I have found is 2.1mm. They give only the width and not the height and I seem to think the height is standard in China and is only one size. I have ordered 10 of these ( Brass ) and I would hopefully post whether they are the same.

 

Stew Mac has many sizes for those who want to get frets from there.

 

Guitar is not a very accurate instrument, I agree, so most everything similar would work. This is why most anyone can make guitars. The point is I do not want to use " similar " or " measured " or other alike just because Epiphone does not want to specify the sizes. In case they have different factories in China to make guitars for them, they can surely say which is which by the number. They would not have a hundred factories to make guitars for them in China, they would have a few, so, another few lines on their web site is not a problem.

 

Caliper measurements is what the Luthiers would use and these are inaccurate. The other problem is the angle but most anything should work after the hammer gets to play. Yet another very professional tool.

 

Another good idea may be for Epiphone to ask the Chinese manufacturers to write all technical specs in the manual as well as, may be, on the label they stick inside. This will surely not cost money.

 

I do not think, however, Gibson addresses this problem with their expensive guitars either and collectors may pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for an original Gibson which has not been refreted accurately.

[Steven Bayes]

Seems silly to go to the trouble when you can get a brand new DR100 for 90 bucks.

 

As compared to $2 for 4 frets and a few minutes of work which is also pleasure.

[Steven Bayes]

Yeah, some people - hopefully in the minority - get very annoyed and/or rude because the world does not operate in the way they think it should. It's not as if an Epi DR100, nice guitar though it is, will be a museum piece any time soon.

 

No, but costs nothing to do the things right.

 

A few lines or a doc file written in China also costs nothing to spin Earth in an exact distance from the Sun.

[Steven Bayes]

does anyone know the chemical makeup of the wood glue used on the DR-100?

 

I understand the sarcasm yet this is a good question and, even, may be the correct approach in some cases. I most cases, people would use the strongest glue and, in most cases, the strength differences between the new and the old glue would not be a problem. In other, may.

 

As far as the frets go, they best be the same. Costs nothing.

[Steven Bayes]

I know where you're coming from, sir. :D

 

Answered in the answer to the original question.