ES 175 for the blues?

[brundaddy]

milod said it best!

[henry_lee]

hey Californiaman -

 

my apologies for the late reply, busy past few days...

 

yeah, if I had to do it all over again, I'd have just left the black one stock

and flipped it. I had hoped it would be better than my more recent ES-175 reissue,

but when all was said and done, I liked my 2006 reissue better.

 

your apprehension is totally sound. I wouldn't do it again. I have a '54 ES-175D and

I've toyed with the idea of putting a vintage B6 on it, but I'm leaving it 100% stock.

 

seems like the "rational" thing to do is to find another guitar to do the Bigsby thing.

that's how I ended up with a 225TD... lol. :)

 

but your black one is a beaut... I wouldn't change a thing!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Henry' date='

that Bigsby looks so nice on that guitar.

I've been toying with the idea of one for my ES 175 for some time now. I guess I'm apprehensive about changing the guitar. I like it bone stock original. But I do love a Bigsby.

 

[/quote']

[blkjazz]

If you have in mind your howling blues a la BB King' date=' I'd be looking at a Thinline like a 335, 345 or 355. as they can get a bit more of an edge in their tone and are less prone to feedback.

 

From my limited experience, 175s excel at that warmer jazz tone but are not as strong in other areas.

 

But different strokes....

 

RN

 

Actually B B King played a 175 for awhile before switching to the 335 body style. I have had my ES 175D since 1970 and I have used it for blues, jazz, country, R&B and whatever else they were paying me to play. I understand your point however (I also have an ES 335). Basically benders (BB, Little Milton. et al) fit well with the 335 while sliders (T Bone Walker, Wayne Bennett, Mel Brown, et al) tend toward the 175, L 5, Super 400 and the like. It is still the blues. The 175 is a great axe.

 

 

 

 

[/quote']

[Mr. Robot]

I agree.

 

I sat my 175 and my 335 side by side today and played straight jazz comping, swaping one for the other on the same progression.

 

It was awesome. They both just kick ***. I love them both. But when i wanted to start bending strings, it had to be the 335.

[brundaddy]

My 175 loves its strings bent, its hair pulled, and its *** spanked -- either through my Twin or Plexi, sometimes both (A/B style)

[milod]

I haven't popped back for much of a look at this thread in a cupla days, but I've been thinking about it a lot.

 

Frankly the comment that there ain't no pay below the 12th fret kinda got to me.

 

If anything, I think we're talking about an aesthetic in academic terminology and just plain gut in life. What the heck, the blues guys on piano and organ ain't often seeing how far up the keyboard their right hand can go...

 

Were I far, far more gifted in the cash department, my ideal guitar would be an ES 175 with a shorter scale, although it's darned close to a "classical" guitar as is. Then I'd have it reeeeeally adjusted by a pro - instead of a fumble-fingered finger picker like me - for my own rather light "touch" and the light strings I prefer.

 

Nothing against the 335 at all - except maybe I'd like the strings a leeetle further apart at the nut. And it's a wonderful concept for strapping on if you're standing on stage. Been there, done that in the olden days albeit with a Rick. (oops)

 

But even as much bending as I've done on occasion, it's usually on the low-note side of the 5th fret. But I guess I've never really sought to copy the "see if you can get the strings to break" mode.

 

Funny thing is that, as much as I love to listen to some guys that are heavy on use of the teeny fret areas of the neck and bend the doo-doo out of strings, I've never had the inclination to do it myself. Yet even Segovia managed on a classical guitar to finger frets over the body of the guitar itself.

 

Bottom line for me is, I guess, I wouldn't mind a super-custom 175 with a shorter neck rather than longer. Or a 335 body with a shorter, wider neck. Alas, I'll likely never own such a creature. And yes, my hands are relatively small, but I can stretch five frets for a CMaj7 with a barre at the third fret, the "A" position with the ring finger on the 5th fret and the pinkie popping onto the E string at the seventh.

 

That ain't the problem.

 

My concern instead is more clarity on barre playing along the lines of a classical guitarist. So... since I can't afford a custom, I guess I'll just have to pick a bit more to convince my hands to stretch more - and leave an obscene capo at the second fret. <grin> (See what happens when you watch a great Flamenco artist when you've only been pickin' a cupla years? Don't do it if ya wanna be a traditional lead player. That's 43 years ago and still kills me to wonder how Carlos Montoya would do US blues if he'd wanted to.)

 

Well, I love blues on a piano and organ and usually play with nobody handling chords or base lines, so... someday it may even work. <bigger grin> And why did I ever dump that incredibly heavy Leslie...

[sok66]

Having studied classical guitar for a number of years while I was getting my music degree, a stunt not to be missed is extended playing above the 12th on a classical guitar! (NOT!!!!) Seems to me the guitar industry has never really considered the electric finger-style artist much, if they did they'd offer the wider board you're looking for, and, perhaps a more Byrdland-like 24" scale. FWIW, my old Kohno classic has a 26" scale, similar to a Ramierez, etc. Some stretches are utterly exasperating. The other alternative, of course, is a 7 string, but I've always had enough trouble with 6 to keep me busy for this lifetime and probably the next.

[milod]

sok66

 

You're right on with the comment that the electric guitar industry seems in general to have ignored the finger style guy. And I was really stupid in dumping my Gretch in the '70s for a "board" guitar that I like but... never loved.

 

Still, one thing I've come to notice watching Chet on Youtube is that his technique seems obviously more derived from a Merle Travis mindset from steel strings as opposed to having come from classical technique. (Don't get me wrong, I still am trying to figure out what he's doing on that #$%@#$% neck.)

 

I lucked into being the only student for two "master class" time periods 30 years ago with Parkening; his comment was that the right hand wasn't bad but that the left had been doing too much bluegrass. And yeah, he hit the nail absolutely right on the head. Since I've taught, but am self-taught on guitar, I just kinda did what my hands allowed and what I saw others do in the pre-Youtube" era.

 

Heck, in those days it wasn't entirely a myth that girl guitar players would date guitar-playing boys only on the basis of, and only as long as it took to try to figure out their guitar technique. Since that was "pre-pill," it wasn't even all that much fun. <chortle> Just kidding, but it's a line some others my age have used.

 

Never played a Byrdland. Hell, I've never seen one in actual captivity. I've interviewed Ted Nugent for a newspaper piece, but it was all about bowhunting instead of guitar picking. <grin>

 

Frankly up to now the 175 shape and neck seems the best "standard" electric guitar for what I do. Hmmmm. Yet when I began a "guitar hiatus" the board (a la SG) or one of the Ovations were my favorites. I don't get it either.

 

As for having to play on a classical box above the 12th fret? Sheesh. Not if I can help it. That's why I got the 14-fret Ovation Country Artist electric nylon a thousand years ago. Still have it. Anybody wanna swap even for a Byrdland?

 

As for a music degree.... I was too stupid to finish college and went into writing for a living and picking on the side. Too soon oldt, too late schmardt.

 

Only one official college music class and that was under a string quartet "artists in residence" bunch. I pulled a "C" and after semester I ran across one of the guys who said, "Hey, good to see you; we all loved having you as a student and you learned more than anybody else we had last year." "Thanks," I said, "So why did I get a 'C'?" He responded, "Well, you know you didn't exactly follow the curriculum."

 

The story of my life, maybe.

 

BTW, The only 7-strings I've played were with a doubled "G" like on a 12, so no problem there. Even did Rock with one. Otherwise I'm with you: I can't do enough of what I want yet with six. Likely never will. And watching Montoya convinced me that there's nothing wrong with a capo for serious music regardless what some may say.

[Murph]

You got it there, milod.

 

Scotty Stoneman played the blues on a fiddle, (and jazz), before anybody ever even considered it.

 

And, at the time, they just sat there with their jaws on the table. The "Cherokee Waltz" recorded with the Kentucky Colonels with Clarence White on rhythm (1965) gives me shivers, it's so unreal. It's supposed to be "Bluegrass".

 

A Bluesman can play blues on anything.

 

Best of luck.

 

Murph.

[janschfan]

They are ALL good for the blues. Just don't put flat wound strings on them.

 

Seriously' date=' Jerry from Moby Grape has been wailing blues on a 175 for years, and he screams with it.[/quote']

 

 

 

Actually, Jerry Miller's guitar of many years is ( still) an early 60's L-5 by the name of Beulah.