Vintage Country Western

[chcantre]

I have a vintage Country Western Gibson Acoustic. Its serial number is 320214, I have always wondered what year it was made. I bought it used in 1976 or maybe 1977. I recently saw one of these with a serial number 360??? that purported to be a 1965, Does anyone have a guess - or better yet- a definitive answer to what year it was made. All the Gibson database guesses come up with answers that don't make any sense.

[E-minor7]

Hey - it could very well be a 1967er - let's see some pics 🤓

[chcantre]

Because of the serial number on my guitar being lower than the one I found on the internet that claims to be 1965, I would think mine was made earlier than 1965, Here are some picks of the guitar.

[E-minor7]

Thx - the bridge looks like a loyal but broader replacement.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The nervous pickguard pattern is very much like my 1965er and others from that year I've seen. Doesn't match the calmer redish 1964er here. 

Your nut width seems narrow - eeeh, the angle could cheat, but it looks more like a 5/8 (1965-67) than a 11/16 (1962 to 64).                                                                                                                                                                      The guitar is in good shape - bet it sounds nice even with the rosewood saddle. Warm, woody and vintage.  

[chcantre]

Hmmm, Not sure what you mean by "5/8th" or "11/16ths" . Did you mean 1 inch 5/8ths and 1 inch 11/16ths? In any case, my nut is 1 inch 9/16ths wide. I don't think this is the original nut, but it is exactly the width of the neck at the head.

Yes, the guitar is in pretty good shape for one that is better than 50 years old. One of the best luthiers in the midwest has set it up and cared for it now for several years, and it has a rich warm tone, and while I have pretty heavy strings on it, it is still fairly easy to play.

I have read, that because of the size and and thickness of the soundboard of the acoustic guitar, as an instrument, they don't even start on their journey to "mellowing" and achieving their mature sound until about 50 years. (Assuming it is a spruce soundboard.) So, I don't guess, musically, one or two years one way or the other makes a bit of difference. I just have always been curious about some kind of definitive answer as to when the guitar was made.

And, when I search the various Gibson serial number databases, their answers don't seem to make any sense.

Thanks for sharing.

[j45nick]

21 minutes ago, chcantre said:

Hmmm, Not sure what you mean by "5/8th" or "11/16ths" . Did you mean 1 inch 5/8ths and 1 inch 11/16ths? In any case, my nut is 1 inch 9/16ths wide. I don't think this is the original nut, but it is exactly the width of the neck at the head.

 

 

A nut width of 1 9/16" was common on Gibsons in the late 1960's, starting sometime in 1965 in most cases.

The "official" Gibson serial number search engine is mediocre at best. There are other, better ones online.

Gibson's re-use of the same serial numbers in some periods can complicate life, but those guitars are often sorted out by their physical characteristics, such as the nut width on your guitar.

 

[E-minor7]

4 hours ago, chcantre said:

Hmmm, Not sure what you mean by "5/8th" or "11/16ths" . Did you mean 1 inch 5/8ths and 1 inch 11/16ths? In any case, my nut is 1 inch 9/16ths wide. I don't think this is the original nut, but it is exactly the width of the neck at the head.

👍

4 hours ago, j45nick said:

A nut width of 1 9/16" was common on Gibsons in the late 1960's, starting sometime in 1965 in most cases.

O yes, 9/16 - but weren't some of them 1-5/8 before they got the CNC-machines. Anyway, meant the narrow width, which as you mention, confirms it's from 65, , ,                                                                                       or 67 as the vintage dater site claims.  Here's one with the similar guard, but a ceramic insert.

 

[E-minor7]

5 hours ago, chcantre said:

I have read, that because of the size and and thickness of the soundboard of the acoustic guitar, as an instrument, they don't even start on their journey to "mellowing" and achieving their mature sound until about 50 years. (Assuming it is a spruce soundboard.) So, I don't guess, musically, one or two years one way or the other makes a bit of difference. I just have always been curious about some kind of definitive answer as to when the guitar was made.

I wouldn't subscribe to that. An acoustic  guitar starts to develop pretty early on, but will be taking shape after about 8 years - really finding its soul'n'trail into the 10s.                                                                        When it can be considered vintage is still discussed. My line would be before 1975.

[ksdaddy]

If the bridge is original to the guitar, I would vote late 1967 or early 1968. It was about that time when they went to the rosewood saddle but retained the belly-up bridge for a while. The bridge does seem to have a larger footprint than earlier ones, and I almost think I had a B-25 from that specific time frame that was the same. 

[j45nick]

5 hours ago, E-minor7 said:

👍

O yes, 9/16 - but weren't some of them 1-5/8 before they got the CNC-machines. Anyway, meant the narrow width, which as you mention, confirms it's from 65, , ,                                                                                       or 67 as the vintage dater site claims.  Here's one with the similar guard, but a ceramic insert.

 

I have seen several Gibsons with nut widths of 1 5/8" from around 1965. I don't know that that was just accidental, or if at some point that was the designed nut width.

[zombywoof]

Now you got me I am feeling old again.  When I started playing a 1965 Gibson was still a guitar of the future.  

You have to remember though that when you purchased that instrument in the mid-1970s there was  no internet serial number search engines nor any printed source you could use to date guitars.  The best you could so was to narrow a build date down to a period based on features.  

But I took a quick look and the sources said 1965.  That, of course, was a transitional year.  CMI had come under new leadership that year and from what I can gather one of the first things they did to cut production costs was to buy what I have seen described as automatic neck machines.  So you will run across guitars built that year with both the 1 11/16" and the skimpier nut produced by the new contraptions.

Edited November 12, 2021 by zombywoof

[Boyd]

2 hours ago, ksdaddy said:

If the bridge is original to the guitar, I would vote late 1967 or early 1968. It was about that time when they went to the rosewood saddle but retained the belly-up bridge for a while. 

Don't know anything about the Country Western but FWIW, my 1965 J-50 has a belly-up adjustable bridge with a rosewood saddle. 

Hey... would a "Country Western" be the perfect guitar to play "both kinds" of music at Bob's Country Bunker? 😁

[chcantre]

I do think the bridge is original to the guitar. Certainly, I never made any changes to it, and I don't think the original owner did either.

Thanks  to all you guys for your interesting and helpful comments. I guess I will be happy with an estimate that the guitar was built/made sometime between 1965 and 1967. In any case, it is a sweet guitar, and though I'm not much of a guitarist, I have enjoyed playing it these many years. 

 

 

 

[j45nick]

The bridge almost looks like it has the footprint of some of the 12-string bridges used in that period.

[E-minor7]

3 hours ago, j45nick said:

The bridge almost looks like it has the footprint of some of the 12-string bridges used in that period.

Yes - though the 60s 12-string bridges had wider 'wings'.