Question about the VOS re Issues Artist line

[ARATSTJ]

I have a question please that's been buggin the heck out of me for a week maybe.

 

It's to do with inconsistent branding of the Gibson Les Paul Custom Shop Vintage Original System (VOS) Re Issue series of guitars produced in 2009 & 2010.

 

I have noticed that these come with the black (or in some cases gold) Certificate of Authenticity from the Custom shop - amongst all the case candy.

 

Older models Les Pauls Custom shops Guitars if i am not mistaken were branded on the guitar in several ways to identify them as custom shop products.

 

These included the split diamond inlay on the head stock, the custom shop sticker on the lower back of the head stock and the custom engraving on the truss rod cover.

 

These were ways that those who appreciate a custom shop guitar could readily identify a custom shop product at a glance from a Gibson LP standard out of the factory.

 

In the 2009 & 2010 Custom artist VOS re Issues series i have noticed that:-

 

1. The split diamond Mother of Pearl or Abalone inlay is missing.

2. The custom shop sticker on the lower rear of the head stock is missing

3. The engraved custom wording on the truss rod cover is also missing

 

The ONLY identifiable "custom shop" heritage branding on the actual guitar itself is a gaudy red oval sticker on the pick guard - which looks cheap and nasty and many owners peel off to improve the look of their guitar.

 

Essentially the ONLY permanent proof the guitar ever graced the inside of the custom Shop at any time in it;s life is that certificate of authenticity booklet with the serial no and model etc inside it.

 

In the event that the guitar is ever separated from it's case candy including the certificate of authenticity, it is indistinguishable except for a serial number check with Gibson - as a custom shop product.

 

Custom shop guitars command a premium in the marketplace above standard models and the cheaper Epiphone "clones" for the simple reason they were hand made in the custom shop.

 

It seems totally inconceivable to me, that Gibson would deliberately devalue their brand recognition - by removing the physical indications of the heritage of the guitar by removing from it physically - all reference to any Custom Shop Heritage.

 

I guess in sheer terms of "bragging rights" for those who perform on stage....such a guitar looks maybe like a few of it's "cheaper" instrument cousins straight out of the factory to all intents and purposes. A performer is going to look

pretty stupid displaying his certificate of authenticity around his neck on a lanyard on stage to show that he plays with the more expensive custom shop product!

 

Like it or not people associate success with $ and having the more expensive hand made custom shop instrument is a status symbol, or at least it WAS, before Gibson unbelievably sabotaged their own following bye coming up with this whole artist line VOS Re Issue fiasco.

 

Now who can tell at a glance what they are buying online, or in a shop - or what their favorite guitarist is playing on stage - when the whole branding regime has been arbitrarily changed.

 

As a first time buyer of Gibson product, I've spent weeks trying to come to grips with, how to try and identify a real deal Custom Shop guitar - amongst the many standard instruments and NOW the entry of Chinese made fake knock off copy's of Gibsons guitars being circulated.

 

http://reviews.ebay.com/Gibson-Electric-quot-New-quot-Fake-replica-guide-amp-tips_W0QQugidZ10000000008225351

 

I find it hard to fathom why such a decision would have been taken to un-brand all the best guitars, effectively cheapening them in the marketplace?

 

I certainly would NOT be buying any artist VOS Re Issues available on line or on shops even if they have a little black wallet with certificate of authenticity, because pieces of paper are too easy for the Chinese to copy and fake.

 

Quite simply when i as a buyer see "Gibson Les Paul Custom" online in an offering of Gibson product, i straight away check the photos of the head stock for split diamond inlay, the truss rod cover for Custom engraving, the rear of the head stock for the custom shop sticker, and if it doesn't have them (as most of the GLP VOS RE ISSUES don't) then it gets passed bye as a potential fake, even if it has a little black wallet certificate of authenticity.

 

I REALLY believe Gibson has messed up badly in this respect - basically putting loyal clients into a quandary as to what they are or are not getting for their money.

 

Can anyone actually confirm that this "artist custom re issue VOS" run of guitars ever saw the inside of the Gibson Custom Shop, because the actual wording of the certificates of authenticity cleverly doesn't specifically SAY that - it uses the word "custom" as if to imply they were hand made within custom shop - while in reality it could be a "custom design re issue" made in the mass production factory rather than hand made in the custom SHOP for all we as customers know?.

 

It seems crazy to build a Rolls Royce at a premium price and remove all brand badging from it, so that none knows if it is REALLY a Roller or a Bentley without taking out the sales receipt from your wallet to look and see!

 

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed this backwards move by Gibson?

 

Too me it seems like the backwards move even puts some of their employees future careers in the custom shop at risk if the buying pubic are now confused/unsure as to what is and isn't safe to purchase at a premium price, with respect to custom shop manufactured guitars, because of a branding stuff up, that's destroying consumer confidence in the product.

 

Are margins so tight that Gibson cant afford the sticker on the lower rear of the headstock any more?

Engraving the truss rod covers with Custom is going to send Gibson to the wall?

The split diamond MOP inlay - is no longer a desirable brand recognition symbol?

Again to me it is like Gibson is turning its back on it's business good will built up over so many years.

 

I just can't work it out!

 

Did someone in management leave and common sense walked out the door with him?

 

No way would I pay ANYTHING for a Artist Custom VOS Re Issue, for the simple reason its missing any branding at all on the physical guitar except the gaudy red oval sticker on the pick guard to identify it as a custom shop product - should it ever be separated from its paper / cardboard wallet certificate of authenticity.

 

I really think someone made a bad business decision that Gibson should review and rectify quickly before it does any more damage to their products reputation and price.

 

Maybe I'm the only person in the world thinks this way?.

 

Cheers

[jamman]

Wow, you put alot out there.I will not address all the issues you have brought up. My comment is that, i think you need to get a better understanding of how Gibson I.D.'s their guitars. As is it seems you cann't see the difference. Try buying from an authorized dealer.Ebay? you need to stay away from that place. some can do well. but you should pass.

a re-issue, is what it says it is. No body is impressed with the "Custom Shop guitar", it's what you play, that counts. If you give a great player a

$100.00 guitar, you'll know that's a great player. If you give them a $100,000 guitar you'll know he's a great player ,playing a $100,000 guitar.

Lastly, if you need th RR or B emblem on those cars to know what it is , you souldn't be buying 1.

 

 

 

My Gear :-)

 

‘10 LP R0 50th Anniversary Version 3 1/500 (Cherry Burst)

‘09 LP R9 50th Anniversary (Heritage Dark Burst) 1/500, Bought 4-2010 new

‘10 PRS 25th Anniversary Santana Model ,10Top / Santana Yellow

‘09 LP R9 50th. Anniversary 1 of 59 (Rust Burst)

‘09 LP R0 Standard Ebony VOS

‘09 “Wildwood” CS - 356 Quilted maple & Korina

‘05 Les Paul Standard Faded T.B.

‘08 50th comm.edition, G.O.M. Flying V

‘08 July G.O.M. Longhorn Double Cut BV (Trans Blue)

‘08 Firebird VII (metallic red)

‘08 Fender Stratocaster ‘70’s reissue (black / rosewood neck)(Fat‘50’s pups)

‘08 Fender Stratocaster ‘70’s reissue (natural / maple neck)

1999 MIM Fender Stratocaster ’70’s reissue (white / maple neck)(‘69 pups)

1987 Japan Squier by Fender, Stratocaster (white / maple neck)

1986 Ovation Model # 1767-Legend

‘08 Marshall JVM 210H - 1960 AX Cabinet

‘10 Fender Blues Deluxe reissue

And some pedals

[sausagefingers]

I just read ARATSTJs comments and decided to sign up. I think he,s totally nailed the problems of new custom shops 100%. Im, looking for a CS 1960 re-issue, the popular on line aution site is too risky i agree, dealers i think are overpriced, the shop in brighton only has one colour. HELP! Im now considering a second hand older model after reading this enlightening article, any one got any advice where to look !.

great site this very helpfull.

I posted this comment earlier but i dont know where it went NEWBIE DULL.

[Sofaplayer]

The Les Paul Custom is a specific LP model. The split diamond inlay on the headstock is its identification. This doesn't mean that all Les Pauls coming from the Custom shop must have that inlay. The VOS models are reissues of the early Les Paul standards and those didn't have the split diamond inlay on the headstock. So none of the reissues have it. You can always identify a VOS model by the serial on the back of the headstock. The serial numbers of the artist line models start with the artists initials, EC for Eric Clapton, DF for Don Felder etc. No problem at all to identify Les Pauls coming from the Custom Shop. By the way, people buy the CS Les Pauls for their tone, playability, used materials and built quality, not to show off. If that's what you want in the first place, get a Chinese knock-off.

[Tim Plains]

Wow, you way off on nearly everything.

 

Les Paul Custom and Custom Shop are not the same thing. A Custom is a model; like Ford Taurus. Custom Shop is where the guitars are made.

 

That inlay on the headstock in only found on Les Paul Custom models. Custom on the truss rod cover is also only for Les Paul Customs.

 

Everyone takes that VOS sticker off unless they're selling the guitar.

 

The ones with no identifying marks are reissues. They are essentially supposed to be replicas of 1950s Les Pauls down to the smallest detail. If the '50s Les Pauls didn't have a "Custom Shop" decal on the back of the headstock, why would the reissues? If Gibson got this "backwards" as you think, then they also got it wrong in the '50s.

 

If you're relying on a piece of paper to guarantee a guitar's authenticity, you're in for a wold of hurt.

 

Some artist models are regular Gibson USA and others are Custom Shop. Every artist model that's a historic reissue is a Custom Shop guitar because all historic reissues are Custom Shop guitars.

[sausagefingers]

i think your missing our point, when the guitars were made in the 50s they were mass produced to all itents and purpose, they were not CUSTOM MADE in those days, so the present day re-issues, vos etc are historically incorrect any way, now if gibson want to make copies as near as dammit to those 50s models fine, but they make them in the CUSTOM SHOP, and the CS EDICT was to give the buyer a better more high end guitar, and these were defined by CS add ons split diamonds etc, all where saying is if i buy a CS guitar i want it defined as such it doesnt matter if these giutars have an extra logo, and for that reson i wont be getting one. My personal opinion is gibson are just penny pinching.

cheers.

[Guest Farnsbarns Wunterslausche]

i think your missing our point, when the guitars were made in the 50s they were mass produced to all itents and purpose, they were not CUSTOM MADE in those days, so the present day re-issues, vos etc are historically incorrect any way, now if gibson want to make copies as near as dammit to those 50s models fine, but they make them in the CUSTOM SHOP, and the CS EDICT was to give the buyer a better more high end guitar, and these were defined by CS add ons split diamonds etc, all where saying is if i buy a CS guitar i want it defined as such it doesnt matter if these giutars have an extra logo, and for that reson i wont be getting one. My personal opinion is gibson are just penny pinching.

cheers.

 

You are still missing it. I am going to really simplify this and labour the point, please don't think I'm being rude, it's just that you clearly don't understand even though others have attempted to explain. It is confusing at first. I actually think you've probably twigged it by now having chatted to you in the lounge but this may be useful for future readers.

 

LP CUSTOM

The split diamond and engraved truss rod cover indicated a LP custom (NOT A CUSTOM SHOP MODEL) an LP custom is a particular model of LP. The first LP Customs (the model with the split diamond) were NOT made in the custom shop because there was no such thing as the custom shop at Gibson at that time. IT'S JUST A MODEL.

 

CUSTOM SHOP

is different. It's simply a higher quality instrument, made with more care/hand done work, the pick of the materials and best luthiers Gibson has. If they are not reissues (Including VOS) then they have a custom shop logo on the rear of the headstock.

 

CUSTOM SHOP VOS

stands for Vintage Original Spec (Specification) so they should have the same spec as the vintage originals, they are celebratory replicas of the original 50s guitars, some would say that they are made for collectors but a lot of people buy them to play as they are superior quality. If they had a sticker/logo somewhere that said custom shop they would not be replicas of the originals. They have a slightly dull finish in order to appear 50 odd years old. If they had a split diamond it would be ridiculous as that has always been a feature of a LP Custom (Remembering that the LP Custom is a specific model and does not mean the same as custom shop).The custom shop VOS sticker on the pick guard of the VOS models is one of those waxy peal off jobs, you are supposed to remove it and it will easily stick back on if you want. I kept mine in a little waxed paper envelope just in case the guitar becomes valuable and the sticker makes a difference (Like old toys being in their original box) but the guitar would have to become VERY valuable for me to sell it and it aint likely.

 

CUSTOM SHOP REISSUE

Is essentially the same as a VOS but has a high gloss finish as if the guitars they are replicating were brand new and not 50 odd years old. Again, no specal markings because they are supposed to be a replica of an original.

 

MARKINGS INSIDE THE CONTROL CAVITY

All re-issues, be they VOS or not have a code engraved inside the control cavity out of site. These are...

 

R0 - 1960 reissue (burst, slim neck, lightest of re-issues)

R9 - 59 reissue (burst, fatter neck, lightest of re-issues)

R8 - 58 reissue (plaintop, even fatter neck, slightly heavier)

R7 - 57 reissue (goldtop w/humbuckers even fatter neck again,slightly heavier still)

R6 - 56 reissue (goldtop w/p90s (single coil) even fatter neck again, weight as R7)

R4 - 54 reissue (goldtop w/p90s (single coil) wraparound bridge and no stop tail piece, weight as R7)

 

I'm not sure about R5, I think they do now exist and I think they are all gold (back and neck as well as top) to replicate a few of the original p90 goldtops that were all gold, some say these were a custom order, others say they had defects in the wood that needed covering up. The re-issues will NOT have the defects, they are just a replica of something that once existed.

 

The weight are a generalization.

 

 

Any LP/Gibson lover would spot a CUSTOM SHOP reissue or VOS model, despite no little logo on the back, form 100 paces and further more, the serial numbers are very different and easily spotted. Actually, while the serial numbers now have diferent meanings they are also done in such a way that they are the same as the original 50s guitars.

 

 

If you want a guitar with a little logo on the back or split diamond on it you will either need to buy a custom shop model that isn't a re-issue (Small logo on back of headstock) or an LP Custom (Split diamond inlay). If you want the small logo on the back for resale value purposes, don't worry about it, any buyer looking to buy a used reissue or VOS guitar will know what they are looking at.

 

Hope that clears it up.