Pitched Headstocks

[Ron G]

 

Ron! Ron! Chill..my Epi forum friend. You missed my bit of humour injected with

"planed"..not planned..obsolescence. Whew...the anger in your statement worries

me...but this thread has gone on long enough and come monday morning..the

admin at Epi/Gibson will make it disappear..so...why not vent ALL yer frustrations

out now!

 

Carv:

 

I'm cool, dude but admit I missed your attempt at humor. If I was angry, I WOULD HAVE USED ALL CAPS.

But seriously, thanks for pointing out how my reply read.

 

RG

[Ron G]

Nice to hear from Billy Mumy again... that video is a classic.

 

Buckaroo Banzai & Will Robinson - both lost in space

[charlie brown]

Yeah...went to my (every other) Friday night "Jam-Gig" last night, and about 1/2 way through, someone accidentally

knocked off it's stand, my friends Telecaster. It fell off the stage (about 3 feet, onto a concrete floor)..neck first!

When the shock of what happened wore off, and he picked it up, it wasn't broken, in fact...it didn't even dent it,

and...it wasn't even out of tune...I kid you, not!! ;>O So, there is a lot to be said for Maple necks, non-angled headstocks, at least as far as he's concerned. LOL! Of couse, in all fairness, I'm sure there was some element of "luck" involved, as well?

 

CB

[carverman]

Nice to hear from Billy Mumy again... that video is a classic.

 

I've found that a scarf joint merely changes the break location.

 

No matter what the grade' date=' you can't get over the fact that mahogany is not as strong as maple. Plus, the geometry of the angled headstock introduces a condition referred to as 'short grain' to the equation and any woodworker will know that short grain is weak.[/quote']

 

Nice diagrams Rotcanx. As hobbyist-woodworker, I'll attest that any short grain or

endgrain glued is going to be the weakest point...but it also depends on the type of

wood used, (ie; like you mentioned hardwood is best, mahogany has too much open grain

which are microscopic voids in the wood), ....the glue used, and the length of the scarf joint.

 

I had to use a scarf joint further up on the walnut headstock because of the 17 degree

angle and I just didn't have enough wood in the 2 inch thick piece of walnut to go 7inches

in length, so I did a scarf joint for the middle portion and laminated with a solid piece

on the back (3/16 thick) and also a 1/8 laminate on the top. Using gun-stock walnut

which is very strong and with a added volute, it makes for a strong neck/headstock.

[Lerxst1281733995]

I think this pic really drives home what a shockingly small amount of wood is left behind the truss rod cavity.. You would think common sense would have dictated the use of a volute from the beginning..

 

 

 

 

BTW, best Canadian beer I've ever had was Maudite.. Nice label too..

[charlie brown]

I think this pic really drives home what a shockingly small amount of wood is left behind the truss rod cavity.. You would think common sense would have dictated the use of a volute from the beginning..

 

 

 

 

BTW' date=' best Canadian beer I've ever had was Maudite.. Nice label too..

 

[/quote']

 

Wow!! That photo just about says it all! Scary!!

 

CB

[JEPI]

Ricochet wrote:

 

Epi headstocks break just the same. Yes, a scarf joint would reinforce the neck, but if the scarfjoint doesn't run up the headstock there wouldn't be a point of having one in the first place except for cheaper production reasons. ER fails to mention a lot of people will be hesitant about spending money on a relative expensive fix for a cheap Les Paul clone.

 

layboomo Wrote:

 

Yeah that and people know his reputation and they would never bring him a repair because they know the'll get raped by old ER! Do a couple of searches on how he treats his customers after the sale .....won't return phone calls etc...etc........you'll see a pattern. I don't mean to rant but the guy is a real slimeball.......trashing companies like Gibson and PRS and promoting his own way overpriced lines.

 

"My other point is.. if I had a $500 clone guitar.. why would I pay $250 ~ 500 to get it repaired?

I would pay that $500 for a $3000 guitar to get fixed but not on a $500 clone.. No wonder he hasn’t repaired any of the clones."

 

Exactly!

JEPI WRITES:

 

This makes sense...I didn't think of why ER doesn't repair Epis, being that they are "clones" of the "real deal" and people in their right mind wouldn't do the repair for the same cost of a new one. OKAY, I admit it, I'm insane and the odd man out here. but, if the headstock on my Epi LP broke. without question, I would pay the cost to have it repaired by a reputable luthier. (NOT ER now that I've been informed)... I just can't think of how long might take to find the same soul of what I have in my LP, (even with the slight string buzz I have now).... As I've said before, its far better, FOR ME, than with the several Gibbys I've had. Its not a matter of the $$$, its the matter of what "feels right"...............J

[garyelcrrt1281733995]

Off topic, but neck related -- I have an old Trutone N1 that needs a neck reset due to heel separation from the body under string tension. Its way more money for a reset than the guitar is worth under any possible scenario, but I like it. Anybody ever done the screw through the heel into the block that can give me some advice? I hope to be able to countersink the screw and plug/re-finish, but I'm leery of what there is to work with...

[JEPI]

Yeah...went to my (every other) Friday night "Jam-Gig" last night' date=' and about 1/2 way through, someone accidentally

knocked off it's stand, my friends Telecaster. It fell off the stage (about 3 feet, onto a concrete floor)..neck first!

When the shock of what happened wore off, and he picked it up, it wasn't broken, in fact...it didn't even dent it,

and...it wasn't even out of tune...I kid you, not!! ;>O So, there is a lot to be said for Maple necks, non-angled headstocks, at least as far as he's concerned. LOL! Of couse, in all fairness, I'm sure there was some element of "luck" involved, as well?

 

CB[/quote']

 

CB - That story is in incredulous!!! Not believable....Here's another one...

 

I posted this either here, at the old forum or at the Gibby site and can't find it through the search function, but I had a similar experience with a '63 SG, which seemed to have a reputation for neck breaks/cracks/separation where the neck meets the body. I had my hands in the air, clapping, and it fell straight down to the base stand of my mic. I picked it up and hit a chord and was in tune and continued on with the show. On the break, I inspected the entire guitar, particularly the neck, but only found a decent sized ding at the bottom horn..............J

[charlie brown]

Jepi...I can assure you, I'm not one to exaggerate. It's an absolute true story! :>O We couldn't believe it, either...but there wasn't even a dent! I know Fender's are "built like tanks," but...I guess whome ever was "watching over him" decided to take pity, and protect "his baby!" It's one for the books, though, for sure. Maybe, if it had been a bit softer wood, like Mahogany, it would have at least "dented," but...??? The concrete floor was painted, and had "dance sand" on it, to slicken it up...so maybe...that helped(?)...We have NO idea! It did not fall directly on the top edge of the headstock, but at a more shallow angle, so I'm sure that was a big factor, as well. Still...it's unbelievable!

 

CB

[carverman]

BTW' date=' best Canadian beer I've ever had was Maudite.. Nice label too..

 

[/quote']

 

Good Gawd! Lerxst That's the Devils Brew!..made in the republic of Quebec.

I have one occassionly, as a treat, on my b-day.

[carverman]

Off topic' date=' but neck related -- I have an old Trutone N1 that needs a neck reset due to heel separation from the body under string tension. Its way more money for a reset than the guitar is worth under any possible scenario, but I like it. Anybody ever done the screw through the heel into the block that can give me some advice? I hope to be able to countersink the screw and plug/re-finish, but I'm leery of what there is to work with...

[/quote']

 

Well here's what I would do to repair it..if it were mine, Gary.

 

You'll need a flat bottomed Forestner bit. These allow a clean hole into heels which are usually more endgrain

than the rest of the neck. Drill about 1/4 of a inch (more or less) with the Forestner bit first, then drill a small

hole for a screw (brass?) inside the forestner hole. Depending on how much fine tuning is required, you could

go to a allen key screw and a nut/lockwasher/large flat washer on the other side of the block, if you can get the nut on.

Depending on the size of forestner bit you choose, you should be able to find a dowel plug, to plug the forestner

made hole. Taper it so that it goes in by friction fit, or you can make it a bit looser and glue it in. Walnut plugs

look pretty cool.

[Ricochet]

 

Good Gawd! Lerxst That's the Devils Brew!..made in the republic of Quebec.

I have one occassionly' date=' as a treat, on my b-day. [/quote']

 

I think it's a Belgian ale, brewed in Canada. Speaking of...(Belgian ale and devils) you should try Duvel(devil). It's gooood.

[carverman]

 

Wow!! That photo just about says it all! Scary!! CB

 

Actually, it's not as scary as it looks. that photo is a cross section of the scooped out wood required

for the Gibby style 5/16 brass nut. There is still lots of wood on either side of it that has a lot of strength

to hold string tension (230lbs +) and still be able to take the odd "gentle knock". Maple necks are

very strong (even without the volute) and Honduras (the good stuff) mahogany is pretty strong too.

 

No sure about the African or asian luan mahogany though.

[charlie brown]

Maybe so...but, that photo is an interesting "eye" opener, for us non-luthier types.

Not saying I'll give up buying guitar with angled headstocks, but the ones I do have

will be babied a bit more. LOL!

[Lerxst1281733995]

 

Good Gawd! Lerxst That's the Devils Brew!..made in the republic of Quebec.

I have one occassionly' date=' as a treat, on my b-day. [/quote']

 

Heheh.. Yeah, it packs a wallop.. I guess that's why it's only sold in 4-packs. You feel "maudite" after too many of 'em.

 

I take it from your avatar that you finished your "Legendl"... Why no photo spread? I think I speak for everyone by saying we'd all like to see some close up pics! Especially those of us who were around when you started the project..

[carverman]

 

I take it from your avatar that you finished your "Legendl"... Why no photo spread? I think I speak for everyone by saying we'd all like to see some close up pics! Especially those of us who were around when you started the project..

 

Not allowed. PM me and I'll send you the link to my photobucket space. We had an

evaluation this weekend. Gibby LP Studio vs "The Legend" with a F*nder Classic

tube amp. Comments from a semi pro and owner of many different guitars including

a PRS..

 

..lighter weight, tone combos= Tele, Strat and some LP. Intonation good. Nice harmonics,

very playable...and he would play it on a gig...not bad for my first effort.

EDIT: Good sustain too.

 

My next one (and last) is a carved acoustic version with minature f-holes,single sharp

florentine cutaway t-o-m piezo,carved hollow figured maple top with acoustic braces,

and some SD p_ups. I'm going out more on this one..It's called "The Legend" in

honor of Ted McCarty, Seth Lover and Lester. Probably some time this fall, as the naturally aged

walnut/figured maple is aging in my basement to 6% moisture content before carving.

Just like wines..you can't rush good tone woods...they take their time..and the results

are well worth it. No kiln dried McD*nalds production style woods used here.