"USED" stamps on headstock...

[JoshWink182]

hey been looking at epis on ebay and loads are cheap but are advertised as "used" with slogans like "at geoff's guitar emporium we can bring u these top quality guitars at such low prices as they have cosmetic damage but are completely playable and 100% fine etc etc...they are sent to us from the factory, we check them and put right any cosmetic damage and bring them to you at our LOW LOW PRICES!!! buy it now you won't be disappointed."

 

is this true? anyone bought one of these? good bad experiences? any help would be greatly appreciated sounds to good to be true...

[charlie brown]

Josh, those are 2nd's or Used stamped, usually because the don't pass muster, at final inspection,

due to a finish flaw, most likely. If you get them from a reputable dealer, you should be fine...and,

get a bargain, in the process. E-bay, can be a bit less reliable, but if the dealer has excellent feedback,

and has been an E-bay dealer for several years, you're (probably) still OK. There are several people

here, that own "used" or "2nd's," that are quite happy/satisfied with their purchases. I've never

(personally) bought one (yet), but I do consider it, now and then. Just stay away, from poorly worded,

sales ads, especially short term/new dealers, from China!!! They're almost always "fakes!" But, even

Musician's Friend, and other legit "on-line" dealers sell "B" stock (referbs), and "Scratch & Dent," with

full warrenties, but at reduced prices. So, if you don't mind the "2nd/Used" indentation on the back of

the headstock, and are careful...you should do alright!

 

CB

[JoshWink182]

nice one mate just what i wanted to hear....i'm an experienced ebayer and know how to spot them fraudulent buggers a mile off *sets himself up for large guitar shaped fall* ha hopefully i'll be alright looking at a vintage sunburst coloured hummingbird acoustic v.cheap hope its ok. thanks.=D>/

[charlie brown]

nice one mate just what i wanted to hear....i'm an experienced ebayer and know how to spot them fraudulent buggers a mile off *sets himself up for large guitar shaped fall* ha hopefully i'll be alright looking at a vintage sunburst coloured hummingbird acoustic v.cheap hope its ok. thanks.=D>/

 

Good to know...Good luck, Josh!

 

Cheers,

CB

[carverman]

hey been looking at epis on ebay and loads are cheap but are advertised as "used" with slogans like "at geoff's guitar emporium we can bring u these top quality guitars at such low prices as they have cosmetic damage but are completely playable and 100% fine etc etc...they are sent to us from the factory' date=' we check them and put right any cosmetic damage and bring them to you at our LOW LOW PRICES!!! buy it now you won't be disappointed."

 

is this true? anyone bought one of these? good bad experiences? any help would be greatly appreciated sounds to good to be true...:-

 

[/quote']

 

Well if they are real Epiphones and actually stamped USED on the back of the headstock, then the guitar in

question will have a slight flaw that can't be sold as new, and you could get one

at bargain prices. I bought an Epi Elitist Broadway that way, and although I had

to pay extra for the oversize hardshell case for this model, it was well worth it

in my opinion.

Mine only had a small crack in the carved top, that was expertly repaired before

the seller (Joe's Axes) advertised it on Ebay. I got it roughly for half the price

of a new Elitist Broadway last year.

 

However, bear in mind that when the guitar is stamped "USED", there is NO Warranty

and the serial numbers are usually scratched off by Epiphone, (I presume), to ensure

that they never have to deal with lifetime warranty issues on this particular guitar.

 

I was annoyed though, that some of the Elitist "trappings" were stripped off

this guitar (not sure by whom), and cheap substitutes installed:

 

- elitist pickguard---cheap black plastic pickguard installed

- grover imperial tuners---asian jinho butterbean tuners installed

- Terada serial number scratched out on back of headstock and inside label

- t-o-m bridge replaced with ebonized rosewood wooden bridge

- white pointer knobs replaced with the aftermarket gold bell knobs

- trc with "elitist" was replaced with a plain trc

 

However, the workmanship and tone (thankfully the original humbuckers were

left on) are up to expectation.

 

So, if you are buying a USED guitar for yourself to play and enjoy, it may be

a bargain compared to new prices...but expect to do some upgrades to

restore it to original condition and don't expect to get top dollar for it

on resale in the future. Without a proper serial number for reference, it may

be worth as much as you paid for it to someone who wants to buy it

off you...BUT there is always the question in the buyer's mind

.what's going on here with the eradicated serial number?..could this guitar

be possibly stolen and resold?

 

I'm not saying that this is the case, I'm sure that pretty much most "USED"

guitars are Epiphone stock that has a defect of some kind and can't be

sold as new..but this is just another area that unsrupulous resellers

can do business and you can't trace the origins of the guitar serial number

or where it was made..except perhaps the manufacturer.

 

If it is a legitimate Epiphone asset disposal, it should have a white sticker

on the back of the headstock (which cannot be traced) starting with 311xxxxxx

(mine was 311429703) and it is not traceable. Could be a random number

or just some reference number for USED inventory stock.

 

My personal feelings about this current method of "marking" disposal stock is;

this is NOT the way to do it.

If Epiphone wants to dispose of guitars with defects to resellers, the oem

serial MUST BE MAINTAINED. With today's computer database technology

it would be easy for them to flag serial numbers of defective new guitars

as "USED" and the owner informed that there is no warranty on this

guitar (like a used car VIN),

 

20-50 years from now, there will still be people asking about

"USED" guitars and not being able to trace it back...not a good idea IMO.

[Nelson]

 

Well if they are real Epiphones and actually stamped USED on the back of the headstock' date=' then the guitar in

question will have a slight flaw that can't be sold as new, and you could get one

at bargain prices. I bought an Epi Elitist Broadway that way, and although I had

to pay extra for the oversize hardshell case for this model, it was well worth it

in my opinion.

Mine only had a small crack in the carved top, that was expertly repaired before

the seller (Joe's Axes) advertised it on Ebay. I got it roughly for half the price

of a new Elitist Broadway last year.

 

However, bear in mind that when the guitar is stamped "USED", there is NO Warranty

and the serial numbers are usually scratched off by Epiphone, (I presume), to ensure

that they never have to deal with lifetime warranty issues on this particular guitar.

 

I was annoyed though, that some of the Elitist "trappings" were stripped off

this guitar (not sure by whom), and cheap substitutes installed:

 

- elitist pickguard---cheap black plastic pickguard installed

- grover imperial tuners---asian jinho butterbean tuners installed

- Terada serial number scratched out on back of headstock and inside label

- t-o-m bridge replaced with ebonized rosewood wooden bridge

- white pointer knobs replaced with the aftermarket gold bell knobs

- trc with "elitist" was replaced with a plain trc

 

However, the workmanship and tone (thankfully the original humbuckers were

left on) are up to expectation.

 

So, if you are buying a USED guitar for yourself to play and enjoy, it may be

a bargain compared to new prices...but expect to do some upgrades to

restore it to original condition and don't expect to get top dollar for it

on resale in the future. Without a proper serial number for reference, it may

be worth as much as you paid for it to someone who wants to buy it

off you...BUT there is [b']always the question in the buyer's mind[/b]

.what's going on here with the eradicated serial number?..could this guitar

be possibly stolen and resold?

 

I'm not saying that this is the case, I'm sure that pretty much most "USED"

guitars are Epiphone stock that has a defect of some kind and can't be

sold as new..but this is just another area that unsrupulous resellers

can do business and you can't trace the origins of the guitar serial number

or where it was made..except perhaps the manufacturer.

 

If it is a legitimate Epiphone asset disposal, it should have a white sticker

on the back of the headstock (which cannot be traced) starting with 311xxxxxx

(mine was 311429703) and it is not traceable. Could be a random number

or just some reference number for USED inventory stock.

 

My personal feelings about this current method of "marking" disposal stock is;

this is NOT the way to do it.

If Epiphone wants to dispose of guitars with defects to resellers, the oem

serial MUST BE MAINTAINED. With today's computer database technology

it would be easy for them to flag serial numbers of defective new guitars

as "USED" and the owner informed that there is no warranty on this

guitar (like a used car VIN),

 

20-50 years from now, there will still be people asking about

"USED" guitars and not being able to trace it back...not a good idea IMO.

 

 

Nice paragraphs, Dan. I mean ...really...lol...

 

It should be noted that there are vast differences between "used" guitars and "seconds"

 

A second is usually a slight cosmetic defect not affecting playability or structural integrity. Seconds are sold through the Epiphone dealer network, are 100% guaranteed and the defects are usually nearly undetectable. I would have no problem buying a guitar marked "second" or "2nd"...or "blem" or a factory stamped "refurbish" sold through an authorized dealer ( both are the same as a seconds usually).

 

A "used" guitar can be any number of things from dealer warranty returns to factory rejects to guitars used at promotions and too shop-worn to be sold as new. The basic problem and thing to remember is that what ever the defect is Epiphone found it serious enough that it will in no way stand behind it. This could mean an improper neck angle or neck set...improper bridge placement... faulty electronics (requiring more than minor repair)...neck twists...all serious enough that Epiphone doesn't want to hear about them ever again.

 

These are usually disposed of, which is about the most accurate word to described what Epiphone is doing with them...through wholesale salvage auctions where dreamers buy these things up in lots of varying sizes, either doing the work themselves or hiring semi-skilled labor to piece together guitars they can then off on E Bay or through similar venues... where the unsuspecting buyer can very probably find themselves the owner of an unplayable piece of near-future land fill. This is about the most dubious purchase one can make because Epiphone has already determined the guitar to be wonkey enough that they don't think it's a do-able fix so one is really taking chances here.

 

There are some guitars marked "used" that are perfectly fine instruments that could be guitars that were returned to the factory by defunct dealers and are now out of date models or out of specification for the current model. They could be out of date/production instruments but it's more likely that the guitar possesses a defect that Epiphone doesn't feel is repairable or cost-effective to repair.

 

Personally, there's no bargain in a defective instrument and I'd never chance one of these. Your best bet is to buy a new guitar through an authorized dealer with a full warranty or a used instrument that has the provenance proof of a traceable/validating serial number. But with maybe one or two exceptions none of the Epiphone of the current day are ever going to acquire a premium as a "vintage" or "collectible" so I wouldn't worry about any future guitar mavens being frustrated in their pursuit of the guitars' lineage in determining their value.

 

The biggest factor again is the idea that these have been rejected for some reason and it'd be very prudent to know in advance exactly the reason for that rejection and I wouldn't solely rely upon the ad copy of an E Bay dealer to alleviate any of my apprehensions. As in all things in life, you takes your chances...but I like to know the probability and odds involved and the over/under on these particular instruments is a too large of gamble for me to make. Good luck.

 

Nelson

[carverman]

 

Nice paragraphs' date=' Dan. I mean ...really...lol...

 

Personally, [b']there's no bargain in a defective instrument [/b]and I'd never chance one of these. Your best bet is to buy a new guitar through an authorized dealer with a full warranty or a used instrument that has the provenance proof of a traceable/validating serial number. But with maybe one or two exceptions none of the Epiphone of the current day are ever going to acquire a premium as a "vintage" or "collectible" so I wouldn't worry about any future guitar mavens being frustrated in their pursuit of the guitars' lineage in determining their value.

 

The biggest factor again is the idea that these have been rejected for some reason and it'd be very prudent to know in advance exactly the reason for that rejection and I wouldn't solely rely upon the ad copy of an E Bay dealer to alleviate any of my apprehensions. As in all things in life, you takes your chances...but I like to know the probability and odds involved and the over/under on these particular instruments is a too large of gamble for me to make. Good luck.

Nelson

 

Much better paragraph structure too..er.. "Nelson".

 

I agree with what you are saying about the "pig in a poke" USED market.

 

You could end up with a dud if you are not careful and may have a hard time returning it.

That being said, I guess I must lucked in on my USED Broadway Elitist. I emailed the

Flea-Bay vendor (Joe's Axes) and his responses seemed truthful enough with

what I know about Broadways..(at least the Kalamazoo ones (in the late 60s) that

I'm more familar with).

 

I know it basically ended up taking some risk, but as I mentioned, my guitar

had a small crack around the bridge tone pot, and it appears that something had

pressed on the tone pot to force the crack. The crack was repaired but still visible

and the vendor mentioned that in his online ad. So far I have found nothing else

wrong with the playability or tone,...other than the substitued items, that I have

now either corrected or customized to my own liking.

 

I spent tens of thousands on divorce lawyers that didn't do much for me in court, so

compared to that money gone the drain... I could have bought several L5s for

the money wasted, so after all that...I was willing to take some risk (around a grand U.S.)

on a USED Broadway that sold for around $2000 (with case).

 

 

So in my case:

Am I completely satisfied with my purchase?...yes, except for the fact that the

oem serial number is obliterated and reselling this fine guitar may prove to be

difficult in the future. However, I'm not planning on selling it while I'm still alive and

"whoever pries it from my cold dead heads")..(Charlton Heston said that in one

of his NRA spokesman speeches)....THEY can deal with it's disposal after I'm gone.

 

I'll probably will it to one of my grandchildren, or even some player that I consider worthy of it.

 

EDIT: I once saw a sign above a doorway, inside a Toronto pawnshop/used item store:

 

" For good oats, you may have to pay full price....but...

If you are willing to settle for oats that have gone through the horse...

...then keep looking around."