charlie brown Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 When was the headstock, on Epiphone guitars, changed to it's current (standard) version? Seems to be in the early 60's, but that might just be on certain models? Anyone know, for sure? Nelson?? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicester35 Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 ...does it get any cooler than this? Here's Mr Richards in June 1964, Casino in hand. Is that the same headstock as Paul McCartney's? Rumour has it that Keef ended up flogging this guitar to Mick Taylor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 When was the headstock' date=' on Epiphone guitars,changed to it's current (standard) version? Seems to be in the early 60's, but that might just be on certain models? Anyone know, for sure? Nelson?? CB[/quote'] If by current, you mean the hourglass shaped h/stock, then it appears to be 1964 (certainly for the Casino, and maybe for the Sheraton & Riviera too). Prior to then, these guitars carried a Gibson influenced h/stock. Also of note, the Epsilon "E" logo TRC`s arrived at the same time as that change. Nelson could probably narrow it down to the actual month! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 When was the headstock' date=' on Epiphone guitars,changed to it's current (standard) version? Seems to be in the early 60's, but that might just be on certain models? Anyone know, for sure? Nelson?? CB[/quote'] 1963 was the transition year on the E-230 Casino and FT-79 Texan. Between 1962 and 1963 nearly every Gibson (and Epiphone) model under-went some body design changes, some more than others. The difference between 1961/62 Casinos and the early '63 Casinos like Keith's and later '63 models like McCartneys is the '61 and '62s have black pickup cans and and tortoise shell pickguards where the '63 have nickel cans and white pickguards (with some black ones thrown in there in-between to confuse everyone)..,The first '61 s have the metal plate headstock logo that was changed in 1962 to a pearl inlaid logo...now you know... Frenchie's wrong as usual ...I can't narrow it down to the month lol...but he's correct about the truss rod cover changing from a blank arrow head shape to the crescent front one with the white epsilon in 1963 as well. Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 27, 2008 Author Share Posted November 27, 2008 I've always perfered the current "hour glass" headstock on Epiphone guitars...or, at least their own designs, on their own models. Their Gibson clones, I think (personally) I'd prefer them using the Gibson "open book," headstock...like the MIJ models have/had. But, that's just MY personal preference...as always. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 1963 was the transition year on the E-230 Casino and FT-79 Texan. Between 1962 and 1963 nearly every Gibson (and Epiphone) model under-went some body design changes' date=' some more than others. The difference between 1961/62 Casinos and the early '63 Casinos like Keith's and later '63 models like McCartneys is the '61 and '62s have black pickup cans and and tortoise shell pickguards where the '63 have nickel cans and white pickguards (with some black ones thrown in there in-between to confuse everyone)..,The first '61 s have the metal plate headstock logo that was changed in 1962 to a pearl inlaid logo...now you know... Frenchie's wrong as usual :- ...I can't narrow it down to the month lol...but he's correct about the truss rod cover changing from a blank arrow head shape to the crescent front one with the white epsilon in 1963 as well. Nelson[/quote'] I stand corrected Nelson, but as of now I haven`t seen a 63 Casino with the hourglass h/stock. As for McCartney`s Casino, I think you will find it is a 62(even with it`s Nickel cans). It`s serial is 84075 (from the 1962 serial run 71180-95846, for all models) shipped out by Gibson on the first of November 1962, according to the company shipping ledger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 I stand corrected Nelson' date=' but as of now I haven`t seen a 63 Casino with the hourglass h/stock. As for McCartney`s Casino, I think you will find it is a 62(even with it`s Nickel cans). It`s serial is 84075 (from production run 71180-95846) shipped out by Gibson on the first of November 1962, according to the company shipping ledger.[/quote'] You're correct about McCartney's (I read the same thing on page 150 of Beatle Gear) but I've always understood that 1963 was the transition year for Casinos as well as many other Gibson models but thinking about it, 1961 and 1962 were also years of transition with a lot of Gibson models such as the ES-335 going from dots to block markers and changing body shape. In most of the reference books I've read the change from black to nickel pickup covers and the Casino going from dot to single parallelogram markers and the change from the tortoise to white pickguard all took place during 1962 but you'll find '62's with left over features from '61 as well as the features that were new for 1962... and so it doesn't surprise me that a guitar shipped late in 1962 would have some of the early '63 features but without the elongated headstock of later in 1963... though still with features from 1962. I've never seen a '64 with the shorter headstock so we know the change took place at some point prior to 1964. With MCartney's guitar you have the early '63 features and I did mis-speak myself saying Macca's was a "later '63 model" as obviously his has the earlier headstock. The 1964 Epiphone catalog shows a Casino with the elongated headstock and that catalog was probably prepared in late 1963 as the transition was occuring. I think the story here is that there's no pure types from year to year and that you'll find '62 Casinos with both Tortoise and white pickguards as well as with either black or nickel cans, '63s with both kinds of headstocks and that the transitions take place over a length of time rather than all at once so you're going to find a lot of weirdness. They would have used up their old stock of parts rather than just abruptly changing over to the newer versions. Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 According to the inserted Epiphone catalog information in my Book "Gibson Guitars..Ted McCarty's Golden Era" by Gil Hembree..the '63 Casino DID show the elongated hourglass shaped headstock. The pic shows a sunburst with the Epi tremelo arm, white pickguard, p-90s, parellogram markers starting at fret 3. Before the Gibson era, Epiphone NYC tried different headstock designs.."open book/notched corners', (that we see on todays models), "offset sideways part", "Gibson style", and plain "rounded top". I have the Epiphone book on the pre-Gibson era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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