Ron G Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Counterfeiting is theft' date=' and theft makes prices rise[/quote']How, exactly, does counterfeiting make prices rise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeMaster Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 I will be keeping the fake, I will not be donating or selling it, ever But will people please look at this in terms of what he can do to me, considering he has my credit card details, and I through emails have accepted the other guitar as a replacement And bear in my mind (for you guys who live in America), I live in England, can I please get this from a law point of view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Two wrongs do not make a right, as my mother used to say. Regardless of whether the dealer is a ripoff mofo, you may want to retain your personal integrity. Anyway, he'll simply charge your card if you don't return the guitar - and then you'll have a new hassle to overcome. BTW, this is a guitar forum, not a legal forum. I've done my share for your problem, with a couple of simple emails, while everybody else flailed their theories. Unfortunately, you're paying for a certain lack of due diligence. Get done with this affair, learn something from it, and move on. Don't compound it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Summerisle Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I will be keeping the fake' date=' I will not be donating or selling it, ever But will people please look at this in terms of what he can do to me, considering he has my credit card details, and I through emails have accepted the other guitar as a replacement And bear in my mind (for you guys who live in America), I live in England, can I please get this from a law point of view [/quote'] The first thing I would do would be to phone Barclaycard or whoever you have your credit card with, and tell them not to make any payments to the company you bought the guitar from. [This was no problem for me a couple of years ago, when I had a disagreement with a landlord who just didn't seem to understand that giving him one month's written notice and then leaving the property didn't give him the right to try and keep on enforcing monthly payments in the absence of any contract between us.] It is illegal to supply a counterfeit item in the UK (even if you are not doing it for profit.) This link provides some guidance: http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/GenerateContent?CONTENT_ITEM_ID=6613&CONTENT_ITEM_TYPE=0&MENU_ID=1522 But the relevant law is contained in the Trade Descriptions Act 1968 (especially section 6). http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1968/pdf/ukpga_19680029_en.pdf I am not trying to tell you what to do, so please do not take this as a statement of advice. But if I were in your position I would not keep this guitar. In a way, it would be wrong to do so, especially as the vendor has agreed to supply you with a 'real' one. The best idea might be to wait until the new guitar arrives, then contact your local Citizen's Advice Bureau, and ask them what you should do with the fake: http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/ Either way, be sure to notify your credit card issuer first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generation zero Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 So I guess legal fees for fighting all of the copyright infringement and counterfeit operations has no effect on price. Gibson' date=' Epiphone and Fender just pay that stuff out of their pockets with none of it being passed on to the consumer. That's almost the same as saying you can steal from Wal-Mart without affecting prices of goods. Counterfeiting is theft, and theft makes prices rise. Even though you bought your fakes second hand, you are still supporting the crime, and as long as the manufacturers have to fight this BS, the people who buy authentic goods have to pay for the crimes of others.[/quote'] Okay, I'll grant you that the legal fees do come out of the bottom line of the companies in question. But, I am certain that these companies all keep lawyers on retainer year round, to deal with these and many, many other legal issues encountered in daily business. Artist endorsement contract negotiations, general copyright legalities, in-house legal matters regarding employees and labor laws, EPA requirements on factories and material suppliers... there are TONS of legal issues for any company the size of Gibson, Fender, PRS, and so on. To claim that my buying a few secondhand counterfeit guitars has even the slightest effect on the street price of a 2009 Gibson or Epiphone Les Paul is simply assinine. The guitars have already been made. Crime comitted, damage done. The guitars have already been sold by the criminals, possibly as real Gibsons. Second crime comitted, damage done. The original victim who bought them has taken whatever action he deemed necessary, and has since sold the guitars in question to the guy I eventually bought them from, hopefully getting most of his money back in the process. I'm sure, if they were originally bought under the guise of real Gibsons, the purchaser would have reported the seller to Gibson. That lawyer you claim to be paying for as a Gibson owner has probably already tracked down the seller, or been evaded by the seller moving to another website or whatever. Regardless, by the time I came into the picture, I bought three guitars from a guy who was selling them for what he had in them, about $300 a piece. I was not in the market for a single guitar that would cost me over $2000... I was looking to buy a few Les Pauls that I would enjoy playing on stage in bars around town. I am sure that at some point, I will once again want to own a real Gibson... at which point I will go to an authorized dealer and buy one, like I did the first time I owned a real Gibson. I fail to see how you have shown any convincing argument that my actions have done anything to support the criminals who are making these guitars, or that I have contributed to the rising cost of a real Gibson guitar. Handmade furniture costs more this year than it did last year too... rising cost of woods and other materials is a far more likely culprit than the secondhand counterfeit guitar market. Just saying. Anyway, to the OP... I agree that the best action on your behalf would be to wait until you get the replacement guitar, verify its' authenticity, and THEN contact authorities in your locale for advice on what to do with the counterfeit. Or, you could pull a page from the sellers' book, and tell him that you mistakenly sent it to the wrong adress, and have asked the recipient to kindly forward it to him. If it never gets there... it's out of your hands then, is it not? :- If you don't want to be lying to him, then send the guitar to me. I'll make SURE it gets where it shoud go, right away! LOL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyushPresley Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 is this the longest thread so far...with 205 posts...damn...:- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeMaster Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 I actually was really considering telling him I sent it to the wrong address (the same road as him but different number), and then saying it wasn't my fault but anyway, he sent me the replacement and it is a REALLY obvious fake :| I'm just telling him I want both collecting, a refund, and I'm splashing out extra for a real one, when you open the guitar up at the back, where is the Epiphone sign supposed to be? Any correspondance appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twiggy Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 damn mate, you've got no luck that's exactly why I always go to the store and try it before I part with cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTracey Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I have just started a new thread with my MZOnline fake Les Paul experience. I have the name and home address of the guy at MZ and would like some comments about how to proceed. My question is "can MZONline actually supply real Epiphones"? Also, has anyone got the url of the serial number checker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twiggy Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 for guitardater: link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyushPresley Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I have just started a new thread with my MZOnline fake Les Paul experience. I have the name and home address of the guy at MZ and would like some comments about how to proceed. My question is "can MZONline actually supply real Epiphones"? Also' date=' has anyone got the url of the serial number checker?[/quote'] Well it's completely up to mzonline to supply genuine guitars...till now they haven't so I have very little hope that they actually would...for the moment just don't deal with that guy anymore..deal with Aurthorized Epi Dealers..the best way.. btw i think this has been the longest thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyushPresley Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I actually was really considering telling him I sent it to the wrong address(the same road as him but different number)' date=' and then saying it wasn't my fault but anyway, he sent me the replacement and it is a REALLY obvious fake :| I'm just telling him I want both collecting, a refund, and I'm splashing out extra for a real one, when you open the guitar up at the back, where is the Epiphone sign supposed to be? Any correspondance appreciated[/quote'] What back ?? on an Epi black beauty ?? unless it's an Limited Edition Model they don't have any signs at the back except the serial numbers..if you've still got it post some pics of your just received black beauty probably on a new thread, it may as well be an authentic one.. I think most people don't look at this thread anymore..lol.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeMaster Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 I mean when you open the cover at the back so you can see the inside electronics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i hate classical music Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwhi2001 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 There is no marking inside the control cavity that will tell you if it's genuine or not. With a good fake it's virtually impossible to tell. It doesn't really matter if it's real or fake: what matters is whether it's of equivalent quality or not. And if you start lying to him and tricking him you are just as morally bankrupt as he is. 2 wrongs don't make a right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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