Soundboard Crack

[SantosVega]

Firstly, it depends on what kind of guitar ( steel or classical, classical being more delicate ) and exactly where the crack is located. A crack in the back, sides, or butt is not as problematic as a soundboard crack. If it's a major crack ( 3 or more inches ) near the bridge or upper bout near the fretboard it's a serious concern. It's difficult to access and ascertain if braces were damaged. In most cases a luthier will suggest the soundboard and fretboard be removed and replaced. They are considered beyond successful repair. A repair person, well..... they like to repair things. If the soundboard is French polished it can be made to look new.....on the exterior. If it's an epoxy or modern lacquer it may be difficult to hide the exterior blimish.

 

Something often over looked is the requirement to have a crack quickly repaired while the crack is reasonably fresh. We do not want the crack exposed to air any longer than we can avoid. When air enters the sides of the crack it dries the pores, cells, of the wood. A savy luither knows to put a little water on that crack to slightly soften the wood and allow the Fresh Hide glue to penetrate further back into the pores for a stronger bond. There is also the compulsion for fingers to admire the crack. A repairman that runs his or her fingers along the crack should be avoided. This action transfers dirt, swea,t and oil into the crack and make it less bondable.

 

If the guitar is allowed to sit in it's case with a crack and dry over months it's more difficult to regain whatever sound it may have once had.

 

A crack that's occured because of shrinkage in the wood is more often easier to "come back" than a crack from a blow or ill-use.

 

Beware of those who hang around guitar shops and repair men, to pick up a little informations and lingo. There is no such thing as a 442 tuning fork in “some stores”.

 

 

 

Alexander Pope (1688 - 1744) in An Essay on Criticism, 1709:

"A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again."

[Ship of fools]

I am sorry Santos did I miss something here, I am not sure why you posted this and I am not sure what it is you are saying in the post????????? Sorry, but did someone ask about this.Ship

[SantosVega]

I am sorry Santos did I miss something here' date=' I am not sure why you posted this and I am not sure what it is you are saying in the post?????????'](*,) Sorry, but did someone ask about this.Ship

 

It's called a soliloquy. I plan to finish X-Mass morning.

 

Btw, performed twice, years ago in Vancouver. Stayed at that big hotel overlooking English Harbor. It's a nice city but highly conjested.

 

Santos

[YerDugliness]

If the soundboard is French polished it can be made to look new.....on the exterior.

 

I was originally wondering the same thing as Ship, Santos, but now that you've opened the subject, please expand on your comment regarding French polish repairs. I have a Hippner classical guitar at the luthier's shop, having a small crack on the soundboard repaired, and I would like to do whatever I can to resore the French polish finish on the soundboard, too.

 

Information on materials needed, procedures, and cautions concerning what efforts would be appropriate would be greatly appreciated.

 

TIA!

 

Dugly B)

[geelinus]

You're traveling through another dimension -- a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination. That's a signpost up ahead: your next stop: the Twilight Zone!

[SantosVega]

Like I said, a French polish finish is easy to repair for cosmetic purposes. Any skilled luthier should be able to do that. Once a soundboard has been damaged ( depending on to what extent ) guitars are seldom what there were before the damage. The real concern is mending the internal damage. Do you know if any braces were damaged?

 

In order to ascertain the exact extent of repair and how to proceed I need to know exactly where and to what extent damage exist. Did the luthier X-ray the guitar?

 

Santos

[SantosVega]

You're traveling through another dimension -- a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination. That's a signpost up ahead: your next stop: the Twilight Zone!

 

Exactly. I first saw this as a very young man in 1961. I've never forgotten:

 

http://www.thebilliardstour.com/movie-a-game-of-pool.html

 

Enjoy,

 

Santos

[taxman]

I have to say, this is my favorite thread on the entire internet. Someone out of the blue just took it upon themself to start a new thread and post information that no one was looking for. And the thing is, that info was very interesting and informative!

 

And also unintentionally funny -- especially the bit about if a guy feels a crack with his fingers.

"A repairman that runs his or her fingers along the crack should be avoided."

Now those are words we should all pay attention to.

[SantosVega]

I have to say' date=' this is my favorite thread on the entire internet. Someone out of the blue just took it upon themself to start a new thread and post information that no one was looking for. And the thing is, that info was very interesting and informative!

 

And also unintentionally funny -- especially the bit about if a guy feels a crack with his fingers.

"A repairman that runs his or her fingers along the crack should be avoided."

Now those are words we should all pay attention to.[/quote']

 

Thanks BeatleNut, I was beginning to feel a thick unwelcome here. Perhaps, had I entitled this thead "Baroque Guitar" instead of "Soundboard Crack" it may have been more warmly recieved. To all those I may have offended I offer amends for "coming in out of the blue."

 

So all may better understand, I've been asked to write a book concerning my life as a traveling musician. I'm just an old, Over-the-hill Senior Citizen now and mean no harm to anyone. This is true, I passed the book proposal process with high marks. This coming year, 2009, will see me hard at work on my book..... much to the dismay of many folks I've known. It seems many are on tenderhooks. I say, Ca sera sera.

 

Btw, allow me my standard disclaimer. All characters in my post may be purely fictional. Any similarity to a real person is merely coincidental, notwithstanding the fact that a few were used as models or for inspirational purposes. These post are figments of my ardent imagination, but I'm not altogether sure which ones. I might also add that some of the facts in future post may be amended, modified, ignored, and even outright butchered. Now, having impugned my own post, I must say that there is a lot of truth in them.

 

Now, does that make everyone feel better?

 

 

Santos Vega

[PeteWilson]

We are the ones who should apologize. We thought we had missed something, from your first post! Please excuse our misunderstanding.

Welcome, and Merry Christmas to you.

Pete

[Ship of fools]

Sorry if I came across as being whatever, was not my intention to come across as being whatever, just that you came out of the blue with a post about a soundboard being cracked and I thopught maybe I missed a question about what to do with it. I know was not offended and hope that I did not offend you for my reply, my motto no harm no foul. after all its all about making music and playing and giving joy to those who chose to listen and the money ain't so bad sometimes either.Ship................Merry christmas and here's hoping you all find the guitar you'd like under your tree's I have to wait till after christmas for mine to arrive from NJ.dang it.

[YerDugliness]

Merry Christmas right back atcha, Ship, and to all the rest of y'all, too! Glad to hear that the snows haven't gotten you down, Ship....like I said, I had the same thought as you, where did this come from, but thought I'd see what developed......something about the way Santos' post read just led me to believe that he knew what he was talking about. Since I like the tech part of guits (might even take some luthier training now that I'm retired), I'm always glad to welcome somebody who'll talk about the art of creating the guitar as well as the music. And, having been a lifelong woodworker, I'm a sucker for a pretty piece of....... .......um,..................wood.

 

Dugly

[YerDugliness]

Like I said' date=' a French polish finish is easy to repair for cosmetic purposes. Any skilled luthier should be able to do that. Once a soundboard has been damaged ( depending on to what extent ) guitars are seldom what there were before the damage. The real concern is mending the internal damage. Do you know if any braces were damaged?

 

In order to ascertain the exact extent of repair and how to proceed I need to know exactly where and to what extent damage exist. Did the luthier X-ray the guitar?

 

Santos[/quote']

 

No worries, Santos. My luthier, Neil Shepard in Houston, TX, has had the guitar since early September. I've been out of town until a few weeks ago and haven't had a chance to retrieve it, but he did not indicate that the damage included any of the bracing. I believe I know how it occurred. The seller shipped it to me in one of those dense foam padded gig bags. He generously included a few pieces of classical music in the pocket of the case, as well as the strap for the case......even packed it quite well. He labeled it fragile and also wrote all over the box that it should not be exposed to temperature extremes. I think the postal service packed other boxes on top of the box and the sheet music and the buckles on the strap created a sort of wedge right over the bridge/saddle. The crack is aligned precisely with the end of the bridge plate on the underside of the soundboard. I asked how much the sound would suffer and he indicated it would not be noticable. We did not X-ray the crack, I've used his services for years and have great confidence in his skills.

 

I would like to know how to conduct the French polish myself--can you provide me with a weblink so I can find out what products to use and how to proceed?

 

TIA.

 

 

Dugly

[SantosVega]

We are the ones who should apologize. We thought we had missed something' date=' from your first post! Please excuse our misunderstanding.

Welcome, and Merry Christmas to you.

Pete[/quote']

 

Well Pete, I was responding to a previous post but it disappeared before I addressed it. It was this post:

 

"I already have one guitar with a hard gigbag.....I don't really like it, it was the "case" in which my $3,500 handmade Darren Hippner classical guitar was shipped and the USPS gorillas managed to stack enough on top of the box to create a 6" long crack in the mastergrade redwood top, right next to the trebble end of the bridge. It's at the luthier right now, getting repaired, but I believe a hard-shell case might well have prevented the damage, and an arch-top case would most assuredly have done so."

 

No need to apologize on your part.

 

Merry Christmas right back at you.... it's certainly been good to me. I got electric power at my remote hideout on the coast....after 6 years!! When I saw the power lines on my way in I was over-joyed. No more damned generator noise and a hot bath anytime I like!!!!

 

Santos

[SantosVega]

Sorry if I came across as being whatever' date=' was not my intention to come across as being whatever, just that you came out of the blue<

 

I really get a kick out of this "Coming out of the blue". I've heard it often over the course of my life. Imnsho, the Blue is not too bad a place to be from, and go back to.

 

"with a post about a soundboard being cracked and I thopught maybe I missed a question about what to do with it. I know was not offended and hope that I did not offend you for my reply, my motto no harm no foul."

 

I know you BC guys, are in general, nicer than your unfortunate neighbors to the south.

 

after all its all about making music and playing and giving joy to those who chose to listen and the money ain't so bad sometimes either.Ship

 

Well... it's not all Sweetness and Light. I don't know about the joy either..... maybe an hours distraction from the pain and anxieties of modern life for the listener's.

 

................Merry christmas and here's hoping you all find the guitar you'd like under your tree's I have to wait till after christmas for mine to arrive from NJ.dang it.[/quote']

 

Which means it has to go through Customs. Hope you over-insure the guitar and ship it FedEx in a hardshell case.

 

Btw, you have a most excellent builder in Canada: http://www.robertguitars.com/myths/sound.html

 

Not many in the Lower 48 know about Roberts.

 

Merry X-Mass

 

Santos

[YerDugliness]

Merry Christmas right back at you.... it's certainly been good to me. I got electric power at my remote hideout on the coast....after 6 years!! When I saw the power lines on my way in I was over-joyed. No more damned generator noise and a hot bath anytime I like!!!!

 

Santos

 

Just curious' date=' Santos.....on which coast would this hideout be?

 

This sounds increasingly familiar, if you are who I think you, are you'll know what I mean!

 

One very surprised Dugly

 

[Edit--Oh, yeah, that post about the Hippner was mine.....same guitar as is at Neil's now.

 

How about that link to a site where I can learn to blend in that French polish?']

[SantosVega]

 

No worries' date=' Santos. My luthier, Neil Shepard in Houston, TX, has had the guitar since early September. I've been out of town until a few weeks ago and haven't had a chance to retrieve it, but he did not indicate that the damage included any of the bracing. I believe I know how it occurred. The seller shipped it to me in one of those dense foam padded gig bags. He generously included a few pieces of classical music in the pocket of the case, as well as the strap for the case......even packed it quite well. He labeled it fragile and also wrote all over the box that it should not be exposed to temperature extremes. I think the postal service packed other boxes on top of the box and the sheet music and the buckles on the strap created a sort of wedge right over the bridge/saddle. The crack is aligned precisely with the end of the bridge plate on the underside of the soundboard. I asked how much the sound would suffer and he indicated it would not be noticable. We did not X-ray the crack, I've used his services for years and have great confidence in his skills.

 

I would like to know how to conduct the French polish myself--can you provide me with a weblink so I can find out what products to use and how to proceed?

 

Imo, any guitar worth $1000.00 or more should ( implied demand ) be shipped in an overpacked hardshell case and sent FedEx. Sure it cost a few dollars more but on the other hand..... can you afford not to?

 

The guitar may sound fine after the repair, who knows? I do think it's a matter of intense speculation. A six inch crack in the small wooden heart of a fine guitar is cause for major concern.

 

Where the monkey hid his nut was in the "Terms and conditions". Namely, it's the seller who insures a safe delivery. It should have been clearly pointed out the guitar not be shipped in a protective hardshell case. When the seller had you insure the guitar....although you may have thought it was an excellent idea... you where left holding the "gig bag'. That's the rub....you were left with dealing with USPS. They know their stuff and just because it was marked "fragile" means nothing but a target. U.S. Postal employee's are over-worked, a well known fact. In fact they often go "Postal".

 

Once you insure in your name...well, the USPS doesn't give a hoot about the seller, it's all on you and that's the rub.

 

Google "French Polish Guitar" or just "French Polish" and you'll find more than you ever wanted to know. Btw, read the Myths in the Roberts link I mentioned above.

 

Do whatever it takes to stop the irresistable urge of doing it yourself. This may mean Woodworker's Rehab in your case.

 

Santos

 

Santos

 

 

 

TIA.

 

 

Dugly [/quote']

[SantosVega]

 

Just curious, Santos.....on which coast would this hideout be?

 

This sounds increasingly familiar, if you are who I think you, are you'll know what I mean!

 

One very surprised Dugly

 

Rascals Pass, Espirito Santo Bay, Tx.

 

( The End of Nowhere )

 

Santos

[YerDugliness]

 

Just curious' date=' Santos.....on which coast would this hideout be?

 

This sounds increasingly familiar, if you are who I think you, are you'll know what I mean!

 

One very surprised Dugly

 

Rascals Pass, Espirito Santo Bay, Tx.

 

( The End of Nowhere )

 

Santos[/quote']

 

Congrats, man! So happy to hear you have utilities now......I know, my project home in KS can seem sorta like camping every now and then.

 

For my Epi Forum friends, please say welcome to a long-time friend, an incredible guitarist, no kidding.....

 

I had suspected SantosVega might be he for his last few posts, but welcomed him anyway as he is one awesome musician.....and an incredible fisherman and backgammon player, too. We've shared many an evening as we became acquainted, don't get to hang together much any more, but every now and then he'll pop up. Welcome him, hope against hope that he sticks around....he's a bit of a wildcat and I suspect he'll move on soon, but in the meantime, he's the real deal, a composer and previously a touring, performing musician and always an animal on the guitar, we could ALL learn a few things from this guy.

 

For example, how many of you recall our discussions regarding the Masterbilt's construction....I mentioned that there is a distinct difference in tone on my AJ500RC when I pay particular attention to making sure my right arm doesn't rest on the guitar, thereby damping the soundboard. Yep, a technique learned from Santos in my kitchen down in Corpus Christi, TX......one of many memorable things I've learned from him.

 

Rascal's Pass? Sounds like a great name for a composition, hombre.......you're quite the rascal, Santos !

 

Dugly

[Ship of fools]

Sorry Santos not familiar with his work, but do check out this guys work www.ParagonGuitar.ca now this guy really knows his stuff about guitars and has some of the best reputation here in Canada and the US for that matter.louis

[theDeuce]

I too didn't understand the reason for the original post, yet couldn't look away. It reads like a novel. I am looking forward to more posts from your book Santos.

[Ship of fools]

Santos, you sneaky Pete you I thought I reconized the writing on the wall it just took a bit and yerduglyness also helped me figure out who you where, great to hear from you again and hope all is well with my brethern from the south ( Texas ) and we should get together for a few throws of the dice, I have been know to win a game or two now and then and after you wipe my butt well lets strum some strings. Hey and when you get into town look up some old friends of mine called The Drugstore Cowboys, bass palyer is a good friend ( and tell him the Ship of Fools sent yo'al) and another great musician, they play locally all over your area.Take care till the next writings on the wall and a very Merry christmas to all and a good night.Ship

[Red 333]

Since we're extending Christmas greetings in this thread, let me extend mine to all of you. Thanks for making the Epiphone Acoustic forum a helpful and entertaining place. Happy New Year, too!

 

Red 333