Epiphone EJ-160E Lennon - Making It Sound Good?

[abbeyroadman]

Hi -

 

String (factory original) Update: Epiphone EJ160-E and Gibson J-160J

 

A few weeks ago I played a EJ160-E fresh out of the carton at a local GC - it was impressive. A few days ago, I played another one at yet another GC (there as several GC's in the D.C. Area) - it was unimpressive. The first guitar had all steel strings, I was told by the sales rep. they were nickel wound strings. The second guitar had four bronze strings, plus two steel strings and the guitar in general looked very used. The sales rep. told me the bronze strings were the original strings.

 

Since I am now seriously considering purchasing an EJ-160E, I decided to contact Epiphone/Gibson customer service about what type of string is installed at the factory, on both the EJ160-E and the Gibson J-160J (the much more expensive replica).

 

The answer from Epi./Gibson was: both are strung with Gibson L-5 Nickel Wound strings, .11 - .52 gauge. "L-5 Pure Nickel Wound Jazz Electric strings are intended for players who want a heavier, jazzier feel to their guitars, but still want the crisp attack of a round wound string. The nickel wrap gives these strings a warm tone, and the combination of gauges let you enjoy a superior balance of feel and volume."

 

That info. has helped me with my decision as I liked what I heard and felt with the first EJ160-E - "something Beatle-like, but something both different and pleasant, too. Hope this helps others as well.

 

Regards,

[clarkuss]

Byrds thanks very much for your advice. When my new guitar arrives I'll be taking this all on board. I think I too will have the pickup modified to resemble a P-90 eventually. I've also joined BGC. Great place for beatles freaks!

 

AbbeyRoadMan: Cheers for sharing! But I still think the Casino is the better option

[Red 333]

Hi -

 

The answer from Epi./Gibson was: both are strung with Gibson L-5 Nickel Wound strings' date=' .11 - .52 gauge. "L-5 Pure Nickel Wound Jazz Electric strings are intended for players who want a heavier, jazzier feel to their guitars, but still want the crisp attack of a round wound string. The nickel wrap gives these strings a warm tone, and the combination of gauges let you enjoy a superior balance of feel and volume."

 

[/quote']

 

That must be something new. Neither my Epiphone EJ160e or Gibson J160E came with L-5 strings. They came with phosphor bronze strings. I can imagnine the laminated top Lennon Peace model coming with L-5s, but it would surprise me if the standard Epiphone or Gibson models did. However, I think they might be a good choice if you are looking for Beatley sound. I say that without trying it, though. I've always meant to (I buy L-5s for my archtops) but have never got around to putting them on my Gibson, becasue it already sounds so unique as an acoustic.

 

Red 333

[clarkuss]

I've had two new ones and they both came with pretty dull bronze acoustic strings too.

[byrds1965]

Byrds thanks very much for your advice. When my new guitar arrives I'll be taking this all on board. I think I too will have the pickup modified to resemble a P-90 eventually. I've also joined BGC. Great place for beatles freaks!

 

AbbeyRoadMan: Cheers for sharing! But I still think the Casino is the better option

 

Not a problem. Let us know how things work our for you and how you like yours.

[The Beatles Sound]

Ok, this is a Sample Sound of this Epiphone Acustic ...

for my the real sound is in unplugged, plugged it's a Electric Sound.

 

Enjoy, and sorry for my english ...

 

EPIPHONE Lennon Acoustic Sample

[abbeyroadman]

clarkuss & red333 -

 

Interesting to read that your guitars came with bronze strings - any chance the stores changed to those strings before you purchased them? Conventional string guides will say that nickel strings offer the best electrical pick-up results, so I have always assumed that's why the Gibson's the Beatles used, as well as any of the replicas were/are strung with nickel strings.

 

I have never seen the new Gibson "Peace" model, but I did see an older Gibson replica a few years ago in a NYC store - it had steel strings, but I can' be certain they were nickel. Very recently, I played a new Epi. 160 fresh out of the shipping carton - it had steel strings and the sales rep. said they were nickel.

 

By the way, I've been experimenting with steel strings, round and flat, (along with other types) on my DR500-M, and I've been pleasantly surprised with some of the results. I'll summarize more on that in a few days,

 

Regards,

[Red 333]

clarkuss & red333 -

 

Interesting to read that your guitars came with bronze strings - any chance the stores changed to those strings before you purchased them? Conventional string guides will say that nickel strings offer the best electrical pick-up results' date=' so I have always assumed that's why the Gibson's the Beatles used, as well as any of the replicas were/are strung with nickel strings.

 

I have never seen the new Gibson "Peace" model, but I did see an older Gibson replica a few years ago in a NYC store - it had steel strings, but I can' be certain they were nickel. Very recently, I played a new Epi. 160 fresh out of the shipping carton - it had steel strings and the sales rep. said they were nickel.

 

By the way, I've been experimenting with steel strings, round and flat, (along with other types) on my DR500-M, and I've been pleasantly surprised with some of the results. I'll summarize more on that in a few days,

 

Regards,

 

[/quote']

 

Nickel strings are preferred on electric guitars because you want very high output to produce distortion. I think the two J160Es (Epi and Gibby) came set up with phosphor bronze strings becasue they'll make the J160 sound more like a conventional acoustic unpluged and amplified. Nickel strings will make the J160 sound less like an acoustic and more like an electric guitar or an archtop amplified, and it won't sound like as rich or loud as an acoustic when not amplified. I guess it comes down to what you want to use the J160 for.

 

By concidence, I'm getting a Peace J160E next week. I'll let you know what strings it comes with, and how it sounds in comparison to the solid topped, X braced Gibson. The Epi I have doesn't sound anything like the Gibson I have, though it is very easy to play and has a pleasant, if not full bodied tone. The Gibby is really muscular sounding. Not the warmest or loudest guitar, but very precussive and very evenly balanced across the strings.

 

Red 333

[clarkuss]

I got my 98 Peerless EJ-160e today and the difference in playability from the newer models is worlds away. I have both in my house right now and one is bulky, awkward and trying, the other is pleasant and smooth. This one that arrived todayhas acoustic strings on it so I will play with the piezo to see what the acoustic sound is like before swapping out the strings and testing the pickup.

[byrds1965]

 

Nickel strings are preferred on electric guitars because you want very high output to produce distortion. I think the two J160Es (Epi and Gibby) came set up with phosphor bronze strings becasue they'll make the J160 sound more like a conventional acoustic unpluged and amplified. Nickel strings will make the J160 sound less like an acoustic and more like an electric guitar or an archtop amplified' date=' and it won't sound like as rich or loud as an acoustic when not amplified. I guess it comes down to what you want to use the J160 for.

 

By concidence, I'm getting a Peace J160E next week. I'll let you know what strings it comes with, and how it sounds in comparison to the solid topped, X braced Gibson. The Epi I have doesn't sound anything like the Gibson I have, though it is very easy to play and has a pleasant, if not full bodied tone. The Gibby is really muscular sounding. Not the warmest or loudest guitar, but very precussive and very evenly balanced across the strings.

 

Red 333[/quote']

 

I owned a Peace model and bought it brand new from GC in 2006. It came with the Nickel strings.

 

If you are a Beatles fan you will like the Peace model if not then.............

 

The Peace model is just like the Beatles guitars, ladder bracing, plywood top and P90.

 

The current Gibson J160E is a souped up J45 with a PU and knobs. Nothing like a real J160E. There is no other guitar that can get the tone of a J160E than a J160E. I currently own a 60s reissue and it is built to the same specs as the Lennon.

 

Hope your new guitar comes soon and you enjoy it. Let us know what you think when it arrives.

[byrds1965]

I got my 98 Peerless EJ-160e today and the difference in playability from the newer models is worlds away. I have both in my house right now and one is bulky' date=' awkward and trying, the other is pleasant and smooth. This one that arrived todayhas acoustic strings on it so I will play with the piezo to see what the acoustic sound is like before swapping out the strings and testing the pickup.[/quote']

 

I was not going to say much in my earlier responses, but yes I also own a Peerless model EJ160E and the difference between it and the current ones is miles away. The Peerless model is a really nice cool guitar. Not a J160E but cool.

 

The current crop, from the ones I have seen, are not very good. I grab them now and then at GC and SA just to make sure I still have a good one and end up putting them all back right away and walk away happy with mine.

 

The only improvement they have made on the new Indonesian ones that I can tell is they got the body shape right to a real J160E. The Peerless model has a slightly smaller bout at the bottom of the guitar and the slope shoulder has a bit more curve to it than the Gibson.

 

I have played a few of the Indoensian AJ200s' and there have been some that were pretty impressive. Their EJ160Es they need to take another look at or duplicate what they are doing on the AJ200s' and throw the PU on there as that would be closer to the current line Gibson J160E anyway.

 

If you have the time and while it is strung with acoustic strings give the Tusq bridge pins a try. They do make a difference on this guitar. You will get a bit more bass response and sustain. This is not a real bass heavy guitar to begin with though.

 

Glad you are enjoying your purchase and glad to hear you got one of the Peerless models.

[Red 333]

 

I owned a Peace model and bought it brand new from GC in 2006. It came with the Nickel strings.

 

If you are a Beatles fan you will like the Peace model if not then.............

 

The Peace model is just like the Beatles guitars' date=' ladder bracing, plywood top and P90.

 

The current Gibson J160E is a souped up J45 with a PU and knobs. Nothing like a real J160E. There is no other guitar that can get the tone of a J160E than a J160E. I currently own a 60s reissue and it is built to the same specs as the Lennon.

 

Hope your new guitar comes soon and you enjoy it. Let us know what you think when it arrives.

[/quote']

 

Thanks, Byrds. I'm looking foward to it's arrival, and will let you know what I think.

 

I like my Gibson J160E Standard, but I don't find it like a J45 or any other Gibson round shouldered dread at all. Yes, the body dimensions are the same, but the neck joint at the 15th fret places the bridge in a completely different place on the soundboard , and as such, its top braces are angled and placed differently, too. It may not be like a vintage ladder braced J160E, but it's not like a J45, either.

 

I saw one of the vintage spec J160Es at the Fuller's booth at the Dallas Guitar Show today, along with a couple of USA Texans and an Elitist McCartney Texans. I also looked at about five or six vintage Texans, the most I've seen at the show. There were quite number of vintage J160Es, too.

 

ALMOST bought some double ring tuners for the Peace (I understand it inaccurately comes with single ring tuning keys), but am not that much of a stickler : )

 

Some of the vendors were practically giving away new Rics...I guess it's a sign of the times.

 

I talked a little bit with the guy who researched (15 years!), wrote, and self-published a VERY IMPRESSIVE book called Recording The Beatles. $100 but well worth it to Beatles fans, vintage gear fanatics, or studio personel. It's a HUGE and well illustrated book that covers all the recording gear and techniques used to record the Beatles. The book is so big, it makes The Beatles Gear book look like a pamphlet. It's been out for a coule of years, but I had never seen it before. Check it out on the web at recordingthebeatles.com (you too, Clarkus).

 

Red 333

[byrds1965]

Thanks for the info on the book Red.

 

I knew about it being in process of being written for years but did not know it had actually come out yet. I will have to track that one down now.

 

I have played several standard issue J160Es. Someone said they were now coming with the correct P90 instead of the P100.

 

I also was aware that they join at the 15th fret because of the PU in the neck position and as a result the bridge is moved forward some also to get the correct half way point to the 12th fret spacing. Due to the bridge placement being moved the X bracing on the top follows the bridge plate, so yes things have moved around but the bracing pattern has much more in common with a J45 than a J160E. Hence my statement that the stock line J160E is more like a souped up J45 because with things moved around it is.

 

Is that going to change the tone from that of a J45......... yes.

 

I own a J45, 1942 reissue made for Dave's in Wisconsin, so know what a 45 sounds like. The current line Gibson J160s have a lot more in common with a J45 than a plywood J160E. I have never seen or played a first year J160E with the solid top and the X bracing. I think that line continued on as the Southern Jumbo?

 

Gibson changed the top to plywood and added the ladder bracing to improve the plugged in tone after too many players in the field were complaining about the feedback. To Gibson's credit the changed the specs to make the J160E a better stage guitar.

 

We all know if the Beatles did not choose Gibson J160E's that they would problably be in the "goof" coulmns of the guitar magazines saying here is a guitar that tried to be both an acoustic and an electric at the same time and did neither well.

 

Fate smiled on Gibson and now you can't hear the early Beatle records without the J160E. "And I Love Her" for one, without Lennon's dry brittle bashing replaced with a lush acoustic sound would sound wrong. The J160E was and is a great acoustic rock guitar.

 

The example of "And I Love Her" with the brittle J160E rhythm tone allows the bass and clasical guitar to come more into focus in the mix of what is really a sparce backing track.

 

Tom Peterson from Cheap Trick in his Vintage Guitar Magazine interview says the same thing. The tone of the J160E is just able to cut through in a rock mix with no effort.

 

I own some really nice acoustics and they sound nice for acoustic tracks, but in a rock mix you really have to start EQing/compressing them pretty hard to get them to sit. By the time you are done rolling off the bass so it doesn't mess with the bass line and firgure out where to boost/cut the mids so it doesn't mess with any electrics being played clean it is easier to just grab the J160E mic it and be done.

 

The J160E is just able to sit well in a rock/pop mix with nearly no EQ/compression.

[abbeyroadman]

Thanks for all of the great info. about the Beatles/Lennon replica guitars. I've always wanted to replicate as much as possible on my guitar that "early-Beatle" acoustic sound, but never had all this info about nickel strings, etc. Have read many stories/versions about the Beatles recording sessions, specifically about their instruments and the sessions. Have wondered about the authors/writers source of that information and accuracy as the Beatles nor George Martin have never seemed to share it. It makes a nice read, though.

 

Recently, I have strung my DR500-M with first, nickel round wound strings, and now with chrome flat wounds. The nickel strings definitely opened the window to that "early-Beatle" acoustic sound, for me, but nothing probably like the real Gibson models. The flat wounds, while much more mellow, are so easy to play. I will be trying out some Tomastik-Infeld Flat Wounds (nickel) soon.

 

Since I am enjoying the new found sound so much now, I will look for a deal on a new or slightly used Epiphone EJ-160E as that's all I really need. Interesting that Gibson does not currently make the original style/color 160 model, opting for the "Peace" model (although some stores do have the vintage sunburst finish in stock). Also, there seems to be plenty of used vintage models "for sale".

 

Enjoyed all of the info.

 

Regards,

[byrds1965]

Interesting that Gibson does not currently make the original style/color 160 model' date=' opting for the "Peace" model (although some stores do have the vintage sunburst finish in stock). Also, there seems to be plenty of used vintage models "for sale".

 

Enjoyed all of the info.

 

Regards,

 

[/quote']

 

I think Gibson still makes the burst it but it is under the "Historic Collection" series.

 

This is the same as the Lennon Peace model minus the PU screws.

 

I owned both at the same time. Bought the Peace one first but wanted the burst then found out from Gibson about the burst ones being labeled as above.

 

The only difference was the PU mounting screws are phillips heads on the burst and flat heads on the Peace. Other than that identical.

 

Gibson helped me track one down to a dealer by their shipping invoices so I could contact them. I was told by Gibson that mine might have been one of the overruns from the burst Lennon model and just rebadged as Historic. They told me a few left the plant that way after the allotted Lennon numbers were produced and labeled.

 

Either way I have my burst J160E and managed to sell the Peace for a break even price. As far as difference in tone between the two there was none other than the small variation between identical guitars.