Sticky neck - I can't believe the recipes out there

[bobv]

Since I've got an ES-339 I'll post it here, but it's incredible the amount of information on the Web about sticky Gibson lacquer necks. Now, I got her in May, and the warranty card says October, so there's roughly seven months for the lacquer to cure. When the neck warms up from an hour or so of playing, the neck gets sticky.

 

Here's what I've tried:

 

Curing it in sunlight for an hour - that actually did harden the lacquer a bit but the problem is not entirely eliminated.

 

Wiping with naptha - as recommended by Gibson customer service according to a few posters - it seemed to temporarily soften the lacquer before I rubbed it out with a clean cloth. Again, probably helps a little to eliminate any waxes or other polishes that might not agree with the lacquer.

 

Here's the dilemma - there are so many home brewed cockeyed ideas out there that it boggles the mind. Just for laughs, here are a few brilliant suggestions I found by googling:

 

Brillianize plexiglass cleaner

Paper bag burnishing

Alembic polish, but only if you dry it off with gas station blue paper towels

Steel wool

Finger Ease

Dish soap, Murphy’s oil soap

Goo gone (that would strip the finish)

Formby’s build-up remover (hmm, what solvents are in that?)

Rubbing alcohol (also will soften and ruin a nitro finish)

Gibson pump polish (more posters will tell you this causes it as opposed to fixes it)

Microfiber cloths (this must be from people who haven’t felt sticky lacquer)

 

Not to mention the ideas of what to do with your playing hand (I thought washing off the Buffalo wing sauce with the sweat from my beer glass was enough, but apparently not):

Talc or baby powder on the playing hand

Spraying your hand with antiperspirant

Wash your hands with dish soap to eliminate any perspiration (and of course promise yourself not to sweat after washing)

Run your hand through what hair you have left to replenish natural oils (the same ones you washed off with the special soap).

 

 

Does anybody have any real scientifically based information on how this problem occurs and how to deal with it? I;m not asking for anybody else's recipes, I'd like to know if anyone has studied the problem from a woodfinishing point of view.

 

 

Theoretically the steel wool thing, or any satin-izing of the neck finish, would create small scratches so that the surface is not flat. The analogy would be that a micro-scratched finish is like a corrugated sole of a woodworking plane - the reduced area of contact reduces friction; just as the tool slides better across a workpiece, your hand would not rub the same way across the neck.

 

Is it that you have to remove a small amount of finish at the surface to get down to fully cured finish? or is it the micro-scratch idea?

 

And I have to say this, just to vent - why would Gibson insist on using a material that has such a huge shortcoming - or is it our fault for glorifying nitrocellulose so they're afraid to use anything else?

[Hall]

Bob:

 

We'll skip the why didn't you .............. stuff. It's spilt milk.

I would have kept mine and worked with it as you have done. So we're on level ground. We are also back to Quality control issues in the Gibson Electrics attempt at mass production. The "word" is everything from the finish was not properly mixed, prior not sufficiently dried, humidity in shop, to contaminated sprayer and on and on.....

Fact is you have one. Amen. I'm certain you always wash your hands first, wipe your neck & strings down after each use and do not employ powder.

 

I am not comfortable as an advocate of the following, but I'll tell you what I have heard. All that being said, and avoiding chemicals & grit, the only thing I know that reportedly really does eventually work is the fun sun/shade technique, but on a long term and repeated basis. One almost has to be relentless in following this formula and, in fact, curing out the neck of his guitar on his own. I wish I could remember the precise procedural details beyond protecting all other parts, exposing only the neck back for 1 hour max. at a time and keeping the instrument in the same temperature and humidty ( in the shade) for slow cool downs. Repeat! Repeat Repeat! It doesn't smell quite right though, does it? So please wait!

 

I'm going to send a message to kdsdaddy on the Acoustic forum and ask him to read your post and reply. He will know far more than me about your situation and remedies. Hang in for a bit.

 

Steve

[Hall]

Bob,

message sent to ksdaddy on this Gibson forum mess. My machine dumped my private info a while back and so I had to rely on this "dependable" forum. We'll see. I don't post on the Acoustic Forum anymore, so I can't make a direct appeal as a post there.

 

Steve

[bobv]

Thanks. Theoretically as an evaporative finish, lacquer dries from the bottom up, so if there's soft stuff on top there's hard stuff underneath (varnish works the other way, with oxygen reacting to the surface and hardening it and working its way down). SO gently removing the offending upper layer with 800 or 1,000 (or 2,000 3M imperial from the paint section of the autoparts store) followed by re-buffing by hand with Menzerna 16 fine polish (from a woodfinishing catalog) should work (not admitting yet whether I've done this to the guitar ).

 

Interesting to hear you say "you've got one" suggesting it's not a factor of all nictocellulose lacquer necks. Most finishes do have to cure for weeks or a month before being subjected to heat, friction, and sweat, but seven months tells me something's wrong with the batch. There was also some noticeable orangepeel effect to the lacquer on the back of the neck and the headstock - I just thought they weren't too careful rubbing it out - the rest of the guitar is flawless so it wasn't worth exchanging it (no file marks on the fretboard, nubs are perfect, inlays are clean, and it sounds and plays beautifully so I'm not parting with it even to send it back for factory repairs).

[ksdaddy]

Been a long time since I've experienced the Gibson sticky neck thing. In fact it was on a 1960 ES125TDC I owned in 1985! I never did do much with that guitar and ended up swapping it for a '62 Tennessean so it was a non-issue.

 

If I were faced with it today, I think I would go for the progressively finer paper and then buffing. If it is as a result of poor curing or a too thick finish, then you're almost buying yourself a second chance.

 

It's tempting to wet sand, as it keeps the paper from clogging and it just seems overall more efficient but I can't help but wonder if the water gets absorbed into the roughened finish.... can't prove it, it's just a feeling. I'd dry sand it even if it meant buying a few extra sheets of paper.

 

I've actually used Gibson pump polish as buffer sauce at the final stages; a couple spritzes and then buff the snot out of it. I can't say there's any cohesion of the lacquer in the polish to the parent finish but it sure shines!

[bobv]

Good point. Mineral spirits is probably a safer lubricant for wetsanding, or "paraffin oil" whatever that is. For dry sanding finishes on woodworking projects I would usually rely on 3M Free-cut Gold paper, but this stuff was so gummy I expected the dry paper to pill up. A little water was enough to keep it light and smooth. It's been two days and it really does feel much better.

 

The top of the guitar gets sticky where my arm rests, but I'm just going to let that age on its own.

[Hall]

Thanks, ksdaddy!

 

Steve

[86general]

Good point. Mineral spirits is probably a safer lubricant for wetsanding' date=' or "paraffin oil" whatever that is. For dry sanding finishes on woodworking projects I would usually rely on 3M Free-cut Gold paper, but this stuff was so gummy I expected the dry paper to pill up. A little water was enough to keep it light and smooth. It's been two days and it really does feel much better.

 

The top of the guitar gets sticky where my arm rests, but I'm just going to let that age on its own.[/quote']

 

Did the sticky lacquer on the neck happen right out of the box? Or is it something that happened when you played the guitar outside where it was hotter or something?

 

I have a brand new ES-335, and I haven't noticed any problem with stickiness in the finish...

[bobv]

No it wasn't outside or in the sun when it started to become a problem. It was just a matter of heat from my hand playing for awhile would make the neck gummy and sticky. You'll know it when you see it, but I hope you don't. Not every batch of lacquer is affected, but it is apparently happening in the Memphis factory, too. Get some pics up of your 335 when you can.