EpiSheriMan Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Well after my recent nightmare purchase of the MIJ texan with broken neck (thanks to UPS!!!) I finally bought a USA Bozeman made model from Fullers Vintage in Texas. From what I was told by the guys at Fullers, Gibson did an overun of 24 additional guitars from the original second run of 250 USA made texans (... the personally signed by Paul model). This overun came without both the blue sticker and Paul's signature, but at $2,000 less than the blue sticker signed model, I'm far happier as I bought it to play and not to put in a showcase on the wall! Fullers got 22 of the 24 Gibson produced and it looks like I may have gotten their last one. Will post pictures soon....... Here is what Gibson said on the original two production runs:- ...For 2005, Epiphone have unveiled a limited run of Texans, faithful to the spec of Macca's original in every detail. At McCartney's insistence, these new Texan models have been hand-built by Gibson's acoustic division in Montana, making them the first Epiphone acoustics to be constructed in the US for 35 years. The first production run of 40 was supervised by the ex-Beatle himself, with unique features including a 'hand-ageing' process (to recreate every bump and ding of the original), soundhole labels signed by Macca, a swanky display case and a certificate of authenticity. True to Sir Paul's original, the Texans are right-hand models strung and set up for left-hand play, and even include the small gap between the back strip and centre block. The second run of 250 Texans also mirror Macca's instrument. Not only do these US-built acoustics replicate the timeless tone and looks of the original (with a solid mahogany body, spruce top and parallelogram fret inlays), but also include an autographed soundhole label, custom case and certificate of authenticity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I have seen and played that guitar. Congrats. Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpiSheriMan Posted May 25, 2009 Author Share Posted May 25, 2009 Here we go guys,.....I'm really loving the guitar... :- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Nice. I'm really glad that guitar found a good home. You don't know how tempted I was... Great neck, huh? I love the Texan! Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Hello. Great looking guitar. I've been seeking one of these and deciding between it and the Japanese model. How does it differ in sound and construction from the Japanese model? Or any other information. Any and all feedback would be extremely helpful and very much appreciated. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpiSheriMan Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Hello. Great looking guitar. I've been seeking one of these and deciding between it and the Japanese model. How does it differ in sound and construction from the Japanese model? Or any other information. Any and all feedback would be extremely helpful and very much appreciated. Thanks. Welcome to the Forum mjt I guess it all depends on your budget. Strictly on a same price basis my advice would be to go for the USA model as you will have a great guitar which will hold it's value or even possibly go up in value. FYI The breakdown of the productions is as follows:- 1st run of 40 x USA made "hand aged" signed models 2nd run of 250 x USA made signed models ...24 overrun x USA made unsigned models (like mine) 3rd run of 1' date='964 x MIJ models Whilst the MIJ is a great guitar, I finally decided on the USA "overrun" model as Fullers Vintage had one for the same price as they are currently selling the MIJ model ($2,199). With regard to the difference - I have played both (not side by side) and I would say they are pretty much the same guitars. The only difference was "nitro" vrs. "poly" finish on the MIJ. The neck and body are exactly the same. Oh and no blue sticker in the overuns.... Here is a press release on the Made In Japan model Hope that helps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 The only difference was "nitro" vrs. "poly" finish on the MIJ. The MIJ does have a nitro finish. It was the non-McCartney signature MIJ Elitist Texan that had poly. Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpiSheriMan Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 The MIJ does have a nitro finish. It was the non-McCartney signature MIJ Elitist Texan that had poly. Red 333 Interesting,.... Thnx Red. More info from Modern guitars:- Epiphone's piece de resistance was the Paul McCartney Epiphone Texan guitar. Reproduced from McCartney's own 1964 Epiphone Texan, the first 40 guitars will contain every nick, scratch, and wear-mark on McCartney's original instrument. The first 40 guitars also include Paul McCartney's signature on the bout. These guitars are exact reproductions of his guitar and are built by Gibson Montana. No price has been set. An additional run of 250 guitars will also be produced by Gibson Montana, but will have Paul McCartney's signature reproduced on the soundhole label and sell for $7998. Another run will be made in Japan and sell for $2998. All these guitars will be available in left or right-handed configurations. Some of the profits from the sale of these instruments will go to the Adopt A Minefield Campaign, a charity that raises funds for mine clearance and promotes awareness about the problems associated with landmines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Here's some info I wrote on on a site about Beatles-related instruments and gear, the BeatGear Cavern, about the differences between the regular MIJ Elitist Texan, the MIJ Elitist McCartney Texan, and the USA McCartney Texan. I made some additional comments [in brackets like this] to provide a little more context, since the posts I was replying to are not reproduced here. **** Actually, I think the Japanese version is closer to a vintage Texan than the USA model. The USA model lacks the small reinforcement below the sound hole between the X braces, which I've found on every vintage Texan I've examined. The Japanese model does have it. It's minor, I know, but that's the kind of attention detail the Japanese have. Who knows, maybe Macca's Texan did not have this reinforcement... Here's another bit of attention to detail the Japanese got right: the neck heel. The USA versions I have seen are too low and flat. Of course, maybe that is truer to Macca's particular Texan, and necks were shaped largely by hand back in the day, but it is not representative of the vintage Texans I've seen. Oh yeah...McCartney's personal Texan has a dot over the "i" in Epiphone on the headstock. [The USA version does not have the dot, but the MIJ Elitist McCartney Texan does.] In the examples I've seen, the rosettes on the Elitist McCartney Texan and USA McCartney Texans are basically the same, though the USA versions may have some more white binding showing, due to the differences in aging toner in the laquer. [The MIJ Elitist McCartney Texan uses a darker, more amber toner, which covers up the white binding in the rossette somewhat.] The regular Elitist has an additonal outer ring that the Elitist McCartney Texan and USA McCartney Texans do not have. Otherwise, the USA and Japanese-made Texans seem very similarly constructed. If anything, the braces on the back of the Japanese Texans are even thinner than on their USA counterparts, which (again) to me, seems more visually correct. Anyway, the old Kalamazoo Gibsons and Epiphones (and today's Montana built Gibsons) are largely hand built, so there are bound to be variations. Both the USA and MIJ Texans are as close to a vintage Texan as any two of the same model acoustic will be. They are fine sounding guitars, adjustable bridge and all. On a related subject, there ARE differences between the regular Elitist Texan that preceded the McCartney Texan (both made in Japan at Tedara), aside from the nitro finish and tuners [the regular Elitist has a poly finish and Grover tuners]. For one, the shape of the headstock is slightly different. The Elitist Texan also has no carve in the contours of the headstock. In addition, the Elitist also has a neck heel extension, while the Elitist McCartney Texan has a true one-piece neck. Finally, the back braces on the regular Eltist Texan are more like a Gibson Advanced Jumbo's (and less like today's Gibson J45s) in that the lower two are very wide. The lower two back braces on the Elitist McCartney Texan (and the USA McCartney Texans) have the vintage correct high, thin braces. Red 333 My Texans are on the bottom row: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpiSheriMan Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Red, can I ask you what models you have? Vintage or re-issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Red' date=' can I ask you what models you have? Vintage or re-issues? [/quote'] Sure. I have an Elitist (the lighter of the three tops) and two Elitist McCartney Texans. That's how I happened to play the guitar you bought: I was looking for a USA model, but finally decided I wanted the autographed blue sticker if I was going to get yet another Texan (though I really liked that guitar!). I've also had the opportunity to look at a lot of Vintage Texans in person, too, and I made it a point to take note of the construction details. OK, why two Elitist McCartney Texans, you ask? While I was looking for a reasonaby priced USA Texan (and yours was certainly that), I found the second one new for a ridiculously, ridiculously low price. I bought it intending to sell it, but it become my favorite. It REALLY sounds terrific. The regular Elitist is my "everyday" guitar. She sounds very good and I keep her out on a stand. The first Elitist McCartney Texan is a very low number, and I play that one very seldomly. Here's something strange: my Elitist is one of the last made, and the low number Elitist McCartney Texan one of the first, and it APPEARS that the body parts were cut from the same billets of wood, as they have similar distinct marks in the grain. How wierd is that! I can't say for sure that this is true, but everyone who's looked at the sides of both (especially) can see the distinct similarities easily. One final thing: please understand that my post above was in response to someone (without either Texan) who wrote that the USA version was closer to a vintage one. My post was to try and make the guy I was responding to understand how skilled the Japanese luthiers were, since he had that very old mindset about Japanese quality. I wasn't trying to suggest the MIJ is superior to the Gibson made version, as in fact, I think they sound very similar and are very similarly well made. The lack of that little soundhole reinforcment strip (it's like a small, wafer thin strip between the x bace and the soundhole) doesn't mean much as far as I'm concerned. Gibson doesn't use them anymore (as far as I know--certainly on no round-shouldered models I've got or have looked at have them), so it's understandable that Gibson just forgot about it (or possibly Macca's guitar DOESN'T have it, who knows?). Wait--one MORE final thing. By a coincidence, I was visting the Gibson Acoustic plant in Bozeman on a day they were working on McCartney Texans. There were bunches of them on racks waiting to be set up and boxed up. I couldn't believe it. While I was standing in the lobby after the tour, Ren Fergeson, Gibson's Master Luthier, signed out a new one that was to become one of the 40 "aged" Texans that sold for $40K. He was bringing it to his own workshop so he could distress it. When I asked about it, he took it right out of the case to show it to me. He also showed me a completed one that he said he was taking to destroy because the tuners had been mounted on backwards! I don't know whay they coudn't be taken off and just switched around (you'd think the screw holes on the three on a strip tuners would match up, right?) so I don't know if he was joking about that or not. Anyway, he was very willing to talk about the Texans, and very gracious with his time. That's enough Texan talk from this Texan. Enjoy your guitar! Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pohatu771 Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 I've got another question about the differences between the Elitist and USA McCartney models: What are the serial numbers? Those that I've seen are both six digits - one of them claimed to be a USA model (but also failed to mention that it was a 2nd, which I don't think Bozeman does), the other doesn't say either way. They also both had "Set up and Inspected in the USA" stickers, like run-of-the-mill Chinese Epiphones have. It seems odd to be on a guitar made in the USA, but if they're distributed as all other Epiphones were, it makes sense. They aren't marked "Made in USA," like Gibson acoustics are - is this an effort towards historical accuracy, since Kalamazoo Epiphones didn't have that stamp, or does it mean it's a Japanese model? Neither one have any other "origin" stickers on them. The first one, marked 2nd, is $4700, which is quite ridiculous, since I can get a brand new (non-2nd) McCartney for $4500. The other has a small crack on the side, and is used, as is a much more reasonable price - assuming it's a USA model. If it's just an Elitist McCartney, it's probably a bit high considering the crack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpiSheriMan Posted January 2, 2010 Author Share Posted January 2, 2010 They aren't marked "Made in USA' date='" like Gibson acoustics are - is this an effort towards historical accuracy, since Kalamazoo Epiphones didn't have that stamp, or does it mean it's a Japanese model? Neither one have any other "origin" stickers on them.[/quote'] Pohatu,...if it's a US made model, it will have the "Made in USA" marked on back of headstock as mine does....if I doesn't hav this them I'm pretty sure it's a MIJ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpiSheriMan Posted January 2, 2010 Author Share Posted January 2, 2010 They also both had "Set up and Inspected in the USA" stickers' date=' like run-of-the-mill Chinese Epiphones have. It seems odd to be on a guitar made in the USA, but if they're distributed as all other Epiphones were, it makes sense.[/quote'] This is strange??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 I've got another question about the differences between the Elitist and USA McCartney models: They also both had "Set up and Inspected in the USA" stickers... That's another indication the seller is trying to pass off a MIJ for a USA model. Only imports recieve the sticker. Another way to tell is to put your finger into the soundhole near the bottom and and feel underneath the guitar's top: the MIJ will (accurately) have a popsicle stick brace there as reinforcement between the x brace; the USA version does not. The lack of "Made in the USA" stamp (not an ink stamp, but pressed into the wood) is the clincher, though. Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 I've got another question about the differences between the Elitist and USA McCartney models: The first one' date=' marked 2nd, is $4700, which is quite ridiculous, since I can get a brand new (non-2nd) McCartney for $4500. The other has a small crack on the side, and is used, as is a much more reasonable price - assuming it's a USA model. If it's just an Elitist McCartney, it's probably a bit high considering the crack.[/quote'] Fuller's has a MIJ in stock for $2,100. Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrison Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Hi, Congrats EpiSheriMan on your new Texan, you deserve it after the horrible thing that happened to the other one. Thanks to Red333 for the info on the differences between the Jap and usa models too I'm planning on getting one and was stumped to knowing the differences, I think theres alot of Jap ones being passed off as USA models. The fact that a Jap one is by no means a bad thing, (my electrics are both Japanese) however people should be able to tell the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrison Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 am I also right in thinking that the USA labels have a hand written serial number and the MIJ have a typed one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 I've got another question about the differences between the Elitist and USA McCartney models: The first one' date=' marked 2nd, is $4700, which is quite ridiculous, since I can get a brand new (non-2nd) McCartney for $4500.[/quote'] If that's the guitar in eBay, then I've notified the seller it is a MIJ, and not a US made model. The "second" status is another irrefutable clue: there's no way Gibson is going to have McCartney hand-sign a label, and then put it on a guitar that is later determined to be a second (the MIJ labels have printed, facsimile signatures; the USA made labels were personally signed by Macca). Plus, as you pointed out, Gibson does not mark guitars as seconds anymore (and hasn't in several decades). If you read one of my posts above, you'll see that I was in Bozeman on a day when they were destroying a McCartney Texan because the tuners were mismounted. Destroyed--not marked second. Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMcClane5000 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Plus' date=' as you pointed out, Gibson does not mark guitars as seconds anymore (and hasn't in several decades). If you read one of my posts above, you'll see that I was in Bozeman on a day when they were destroying a McCartney Texan because the tuners were mismounted. Destroyed--not marked second. Red 333 [/quote'] And now we're wondering why Gibsons are so ''''''slightly'''''' overpriced.... Yeah, why not destroy a perfectly intact guitar (apart from the tuners, but who the hell cares) just for the heck of it..... IT MAKES ME ANGRY! WHY WHY WHY WHY would anyone do such a thing?! You can't destroy a perfectly intact guitar for some fault... We're not paying for the great craftsmanship, we're paying for them destroying guitars because: "the tuners were installed the wrong way around".... I call that waste, and it is. WASTE. BTW: Even my Chinese Texan has the popsicle right under the soundhole where the X-bracing meets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pohatu771 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 And now we're wondering why Gibsons are so ''''''slightly'''''' overpriced.... Yeah' date=' why not destroy a perfectly intact guitar (apart from the tuners, but who the hell cares) just for the heck of it..... IT MAKES ME ANGRY! WHY WHY WHY WHY would anyone do such a thing?! You can't destroy a perfectly intact guitar for some fault...We're not paying for the great craftsmanship, we're paying for them destroying guitars because: "the tuners were installed the wrong way around".... I call that waste, and it is. WASTE. BTW: Even my Chinese Texan has the popsicle right under the soundhole where the X-bracing meets...[/quote'] If that guitar made it to market, regardless of whether it was marked as a McCartney model, with those extra tuner holes (which I'm pretty sure there would be, based on my experience with three-in-one tuners Gibson used in the 60s), anyone who discovers it will judge Gibson based on that. For the $5000 that these Texans sold for, I'd be pretty angry if I got one that had been built incorrectly. It's not perfect, and there's a lot of money being spent on a guitar that claims to be a perfect replica of Paul's guitar. His doesn't have those extra holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrison Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Maybe "destroyed" may mean taken apart in a way that they could salvaged useable parts eg the fretboard, body or whatever... this may be possible on the hi end guitars being made like this Texan model. With more run of the mill versions its probably cheaper to chuck it - still a shame tho, quality wood is getting more and more scarce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMcClane5000 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Maybe "destroyed" may mean taken apart in a way that they could salvaged useable parts eg the fretboard' date=' body or whatever... this may be possible on the hi end guitars being made like this Texan model. With more run of the mill versions its probably cheaper to chuck it - still a shame tho, quality wood is getting more and more scarce.[/quote'] I agree. But the matter of fact is, they could have switched them around and no one would have ever noticed it, since it's Macca's guitar and no one's gonna change tuners on his (jada, jada, jada) but really this could have been a real nice CHEAP players guitar... I mean, if Macca's had this fault, everyone would be drilling holes in theirs, so what's all the fuss about? I'm not saying they should have switched them around and hidden that fact, but they should have, I don't know, mentioned that fact and sold it for alot less...? As long as there's no cracks, dings dongs or whatever on the guitar (TRULY visible) they should sell it anyway.. It's really getting annoying how guitars these days are being sold as 'historic museum pieces' you can hang on your wall and see how dusty it gets over the years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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