AL-355 users, Are we just being that picky ?

[Crappy]

I was just reading back looking at many of the threads on this board, and I have to say the Alex Lifeson ES-355 has the most complaints of any guitar on this forum.

 

Now are we just being that picky or has Gibson really dropped the ball big time on this one?

[VRob8]

Not necessarily a case of Gibson dropping the ball at this point. It's simply that there are presently more enquiries -- and unanswered questions -- relating to this guitar than any other. (The JP VOS Black Beauty generated plenty of queries too, as I recall.)

 

I think what's alarming people is the suspicion that design errors have crept in along the way on the production of the Lifeson and compromised the final product. Some explanations from the folks at the factory would go a long way towards relieving those concerns right now.

[LerxstLee]

I was just reading back looking at many of the threads on this board' date=' and I have to say the Alex Lifeson ES-355 has the most complaints of any guitar on this forum.

 

Now are we just being that picky or has Gibson really dropped the ball big time on this one?

[/quote']

 

If you check my other post , You can see how concerned they are .

Musicians tend to be " picky " or better said , Perfectionists . That

is why we pay close attention to detail . I don't think most are being unreasonable .

I realize they are " hand made " but the " Custom shop " yet costs are the biggest concern .

I have come to say , ok big deal the poor quality bridge is a M.I.J copy of the original , I will get

a used one and just change the inserts . They appear to be some sort of cast "iron" . The gold

will not even stick to them . Ok another scam , the trem arm , mine is screwed on all the way and

is still longer then they should be . I will buy another from the sites that have been posted that carry

the actuall Gibson replacement " go figure , Gibson used a M.I.J copy that is incorrect , so most are buying

N.O.S to replace them .

I will not let the volute rest though . Yet the admin said they are too busy on June 19th , here we are July 7th ,

and still nothing . $3700.00 cash for a guitar and the makers seem unconerned imo .

/cheers

 

http://forums.gibson.com/default.aspx?g=postmessage&t=4424&f=67&q=42973

[PJLCC14]

What Lerx said..........and VRob8.....if these aren't what you consider "dropping the ball" by Gibson.....then I can safely say that I am WAY more picky than you when it comes to my 3K+ purchases.......This guitar with all these appointments and design flaws.....should have had a Big Ol EPIPHONE plastered on the headstock and sold for under 1K.........this is by far, way below what I thought was Custom Shop Standards!!!!!

[Crappy]

Now are we just being that picky or has Gibson really dropped the ball big time on this one?

 

When I wrote the above line' date=' I knew they dropped the ball.

I have never seen a design flaw like the volute on this neck in my life. And how it got passed Gibson QC is what blowing my mind.

You pay good money for a custom shop guitar and get design errors which they will not face up to.

All your questions about them go unanswered.

 

We are all just looking for answers to some very simple questions

[b']Why is it like that?

Is there anything that can be done?

What is Gibson going to do about it?[/b]

 

I showed it to my dealer and he made a few calls to try find some info on it and was told by the rep he would look into it but we are the only ones that complained about it and that all of them were made the same way.

[Wondo]

Of course I am in agreement. You guys know I was one of the first along with Alpine to raise a stink. That being said, I think that it is probably not within Admin's power to do anything. Admin's job is to probably just say there is some concern over here at the forum and the members are demanding an answer. However Admin, you can see things are heating up pretty well here on this topic. I think we all have waited long enough for an answer.

 

I think what we should do, is if we don't start getting some answers by this Friday, we should all pull together, exchange email addresses and then call our respective dealers, so they can start putting the pressure on the CS for some answers. Dealers are not going to be too happy when several of us start demanding our money back!

[Superdick2112]

Are we just being too picky? IMO, the short answer is YES! Would anyone here actually return their AL-355 over the volute issue? Go ahead - it will just make mine more valuable & collectable! Would you still want your 355 if its had it's neck replaced and/or modified? Go ahead, my unmolested original will become even more valuable & collectable. I have played every chord at the first fret I could think of (or find in books), and NONE have been impossible or even uncomfortable to execute. For most of us, the time for refunds has come & gone - if it was that big of a deal you should have returned it the same week you got it. The guitars are what they are, and we can wish for modified volutes, proper bridges & trem arms, correct "ears" & F-holes and so forth, but the reality is nothing is going to be done about it - maybe the questions will be answered, but will having answers (or even having Gibson admit to making mistakes) make everything all better? For some people, there is no satisfaction. I still think my AL-355 is the best looking, best playing, best sounding guitar I have ever owned, and would gladly purchase all of your unwanted ones if I had the money to do so. If theres anything to be gained here, its this valuable lesson - thoroughly inspect ANY guitar before you ever purchase it (or immediately after you recieve it in the mail), and don't pay for anything you aren't fully satisfied with.

[VRob8]

will having answers...make everything all better?

 

With some of the issues' date=' it might. With the maestro arm for example, the production process of manufacturing and fitting it has been altered from every other Gibson in the range (SGs, Historic Vs, Firebirds, other ES models, etc.). So it's not unreasonable to assume that it's been done for a reason (I can't believe the arms were all assembled upside down without anybody noticing it?). Wishing to understand the logic behind is therefore also perfectly reasonable.

 

Likewise with the volute, a guitar presumably has to go through many stages of approval and testing (and in this case, require artist endorsement?) before it hits regular production. It's hard to accept that the position of the volute wasn't noticed or discussed at some point along the line. So again, there's probably some background that we aren't aware of.

 

I don't really see people rushing to hand back their Lifesons in the event of explanations being offered. Even in the worst case scenario - which is that all the issues are indeed production foul-ups - the oddities only make the quitar more unique amongst Gibson's range, ultimately adding to its mythology and value, as you rightly say.

 

But as Gibson's official publicity for the guitar states:

 

[i']From initial wood selection to final assembly, they sweat the details so that when you pick up your guitar, your dream, it exceeds every expectation you could possibly have.[/i]

 

That does kind of imply some obligation, don't you think?

[Crappy]

Would anyone here actually return their AL-355 over the volute issue? Go ahead - it will just make mine more valuable & collectable! Would you still want your 355 if its had it's neck replaced and/or modified? Go ahead' date=' my unmolested original will become even more valuable & collectable. [/quote']

 

I'm not sending it back, just looking for some answers.

I've already have sent one LP back that had frets so loose that the only thing holding them in was the binding. and waited months for it to be sent back only to find they glued the fret back in. Lets just say it looked like some pre-school kids did the fix and needed more work when I go it back. It was better before they fixed it. But thats is another story I don't want to get into here.

 

As I have said in other posts.

I don't care that the horns are the wrong shape,

I don't care that the bridge is M.I.J. ( I have a real one here and will change it out if I feel like it.)

I didn't care about the maestro arm untill the handle fell off it. (But I fixed it and moved on)

I am very happy with the look, feel, and sound of it.

But the volute is the thing I'm looking for answers on.

[LerxstLee]

Are we just being too picky? IMO' date=' the short answer is YES! Would anyone here actually return their AL-355 over the volute issue? Go ahead - it will just make mine more valuable & collectable! Would you still want your 355 if its had it's neck replaced and/or modified? Go ahead, my unmolested original will become even more valuable & collectable. I have played every chord at the first fret I could think of (or find in books), and NONE have been impossible or even uncomfortable to execute. For most of us, the time for refunds has come & gone - if it was that big of a deal you should have returned it the same week you got it. The guitars are what they are, and we can wish for modified volutes, proper bridges & trem arms, correct "ears" & F-holes and so forth, but the reality is nothing is going to be done about it - maybe the questions will be answered, but will having answers (or even having Gibson admit to making mistakes) make everything all better? For some people, there is no satisfaction. I still think my AL-355 is the best looking, best playing, best sounding guitar I have ever owned, and would gladly purchase all of your unwanted ones if I had the money to do so. If theres anything to be gained here, its this valuable lesson - thoroughly inspect ANY guitar before you ever purchase it (or immediately after you recieve it in the mail), and don't pay for anything you aren't fully satisfied with.[/quote']

 

I would love to rid myself of this incorrectly made and advertised guitar . Even for a White ES-355 , with the maestro on it . Ok even without the trem . Yes , I was overwhelmed with happiness , just to have the item I wanted . I never had a guitar with a volute . I knew something was messed up with the trem arm , which I played an SG with one Years ago . I am not an expert on the accuracy or the lack of quality control of any manufacturer of guitars . If the neck was two inches short would that be ok ? How about the neck one inch too short ?? I hope not , yet you would notice that and send it back correct ? Anyone who thinks or buys this guitar as an investment , well it is not for me to say , or anyone Yet to know , Will it increase or decrease . Or some unforseen accident could make a 1954 Les Paul Worthless ! My strap lock failed ouch . I could care no Less if your " yelled on the playground " < MY GUITAR IS WORTH MORE THAN YOUR GUITAR > . That is plain Lame . Some drive a Ford and some drive a Porsche , the nice thing is at 15 or 16 years old you are done yelling nah nah nah nah nah . My cars faster than your car . My car cost more than yours . You must be kidding me " mine will be worth just that much more " .

[LerxstLee]

Are we just being too picky? IMO' date=' the short answer is YES! [u']Would anyone here actually return their AL-355 over the volute issue? [/u] Go ahead - it will just make mine more valuable & collectable! Would you still want your 355 if its had it's neck replaced and/or modified? Go ahead, my unmolested original will become even more valuable & collectable. I have played every chord at the first fret I could think of (or find in books), and NONE have been impossible or even uncomfortable to execute. For most of us, the time for refunds has come & gone - if it was that big of a deal you should have returned it the same week you got it. The guitars are what they are, and we can wish for modified volutes, proper bridges & trem arms, correct "ears" & F-holes and so forth, but the reality is nothing is going to be done about it - maybe the questions will be answered, but will having answers (or even having Gibson admit to making mistakes) make everything all better? For some people, there is no satisfaction. I still think my AL-355 is the best looking, best playing, best sounding guitar I have ever owned, and would gladly purchase all of your unwanted ones if I had the money to do so. If theres anything to be gained here, its this valuable lesson - thoroughly inspect ANY guitar before you ever purchase it (or immediately after you recieve it in the mail), and don't pay for anything you aren't fully satisfied with.

 

I would return most items over 100 bucks if it was not correct . Imo , Thats my short answer .

If I only have 48 hours to send something back , and only about 2 hours to try it , Don't count on it making it back in time . A nice check of my new guitar " overall " is sufficient for me . If the neck cracked two weeks later because of bad workmanship " no I am not implying , I am trying to make a point , " I would not notice that until well it cracked .

[Superdick2112]

 

I would return most items over 100 bucks if it was not correct . Imo ' date=' Thats my short answer .

If I only have 48 hours to send something back , and only about 2 hours to try it , Don't count on it making it back in time . A nice check of my new guitar " overall " is sufficient for me . If the neck cracked two weeks later because of bad workmanship " no I am not implying , I am trying to make a point , " I would not notice that until well it cracked .[/quote']

 

LerxtLee - The guitar, as it sits today, meets Alex's approval - volute, bridge, trem & all. If you are not satisfied, you can probably sell your AL for more than you paid for it on Ebay. As a long time player who's passion is playing and collecting Gibson guitars, I can practically guarantee that your Lifeson will go up in value over time, but the nice thing about being older than 15 or 16 is that you eventually realize that whining about your guitar will change nothing, and the choice to keep or sell it is yours alone. BTW, I think you missed my earlier point entirely - mine was NOT purchased as an investment - I simply wanted a replica of one of my hero's guitars, and if its good enough for him, then its more than good enough for me.

[PJLCC14]

 

.................. If you are not satisfied' date=' you can probably sell your AL for more than you paid for it on Ebay. As a long time player who's passion is playing and collecting Gibson guitars, I can practically guarantee that your Lifeson will go up in value over time, ..................... [/quote']

 

LOL....you have got to be kidding right?

It's out on most music forum boards that the Custom Shop AL is an embarrassment to the quality that one would expect from the Gibson Custom Shop!!!!!

 

Yeah....it will go up in value..................... when all the trees in the world have been cut down, and people look back fondly at the time when guitars were made of wood!!!!!

 

I'm all about being brand loyal......when the brand does a good job on quality.......but come on people....let's call a spade for what it is............I get the feeling that some of you can't be honest with yourself that you flushed 3K down the toilet......I know itt's painful......but the denial is just incredible here.

 

"Oh my AL is just simply the best giuitar I have ever played or laid eyes on"

If thats true....you all should get out more often to some great music shops!!!!!

[turkeyT]

Why did you even bring the guitar home if it has all these glaring faults? Or did you not notice them until you started reading this board?

 

Has anyone here actually complained about the quality of the guitar's tone or playability? To me, the volute isn't really an issue. It doesn't get in the way of anything I do.

 

I don't really want to get into a flame war with an English syntax mangler, but people who are happy with their guitars should speak up. Given the content of the above post, I don't think this guy's criticism is well-considered.

 

The guitar looks great, plays great, sounds great. I'm sure other posters here who aren't addicted to exclamation marks will agree.

 

BTW, I think I'm going to put "let's call a spade for what it is" in my sig. It's the most unintentionally hilarious thing I've read on this board.

[VRob8]

If you are not satisfied' date=' you can probably sell your AL for more than you paid for it on Ebay.[/quote']

 

The facts certainly support that. Only 2 ALs have made it to ebay so far and both sold for $4k, (or approx $300 more than typical 'street price'). I wouldn't expect many more to appear either.

[enduroexpert]

 

LerxtLee - BTW' date=' I think you missed my earlier point entirely - mine was NOT purchased as an investment - I simply wanted a replica of one of my hero's guitars, and if its good enough for him, then its more than good enough for me. [/quote']

 

I 2nd that Rich............

[enduroexpert]

There's never been discussions on this forum anywhere near this level before..........its the most talked about Signature ever...!!!!!! (I like exclamations....)=D>/

 

At the end of the day you love it or hate it............it has its flaws but it plays great and all this talk and all these discussions, all the attention its receiving on all the other forums will only lead to one thing at the end of the day..

 

Its value will most definitely increase as its the most talked about signature around, yet I do hope a massive percentage went to fans and not collectors, well all come to think of it.

[Superdick2112]

 

I 2nd that Rich............

 

Johnny - I think the majority of fellow owners love their ALs as we do, but the whining & hype bouncing around the forums is indeed amazing...

[Crappy]

 

The facts certainly support that. Only 2 ALs have made it to ebay so far and both sold for $4k' date=' (or approx $300 more than typical 'street price'). I wouldn't expect many more to appear either.[/quote']

 

Well there is a 3rd one on ebay now. it's AL-39

[LerxstLee]

Of course I am in agreement. You guys know I was one of the first along with Alpine to raise a stink. That being said' date=' I think that it is probably not within Admin's power to do anything. Admin's job is to probably just say there is some concern over here at the forum and the members are demanding an answer. However Admin, you can see things are heating up pretty well here on this topic. I think we all have waited long enough for an answer.

 

I think what we should do, is if we don't start getting some answers by this Friday, we should all pull together, exchange email addresses and then call our respective dealers, so they can start putting the pressure on the CS for some answers. Dealers are not going to be too happy when several of us start demanding our money back![/quote']

 

Nice one , unfortunately I do not think most would gather to put pressure on , well let me say , if you run an add for an item , sell the items , then change the add , would it be worth putting pressure on such an unstable place . ,

I mean look out , someone accountable or a company that has fast customer service , sure it is fast , the phone is answered in under one minute , just to hear the same old , " I don't know anything about it "

/sigh

[VRob8]

Well there is a 3rd one on ebay now. it's AL-39

 

Well it seems the volute issue is so far not hitting resale values, with that particular AL already nearing its retail price at auction.

 

Awareness of the 'Volutegate' scandal seems mainly to exist amongst forum dwellers rather than the guitar playing/collecting community at large.

[turkeyT]

 

Awareness of the 'Volutegate' scandal seems mainly to exist amongst forum dwellers rather than the guitar playing/collecting community at large.

 

Which sounds about right to me - online forums rarely represent the overall audience and it's people with negative opinions who are the most motivated to post. Self-righteous outrage is a pretty frequent indulgence for forum dwellers.

[canon_mutant]

My .02 . . .

 

My $3700 guitar has a practically unthreaded tremolo deckplate so the arm won't stay put, the rod handle was 180 off from what it should be, my "tortoise" pickguard is black though it has been verified by the CS to be technically accurate because it is the "right shape" for a tortoise pickguard. They are willing to rectify it if I ship them my guitar as apparently these are custom made to each axe. The guitar looses half its volume on any Varitone setting but 1. I can't get Grover tuners to stay in tune. And, then there's the now infamous volute imperfection.

 

I have asked for a replacement tremolo deck plate that is properly threaded and it I don't get one I'll just get an appropriate tap and fix it myself.

 

I fixed the 180 off plastic handle by spinning it around 180. An easy fix.

 

I'll live with the black "tortoise" pickguard. It frankly looks great with the additional black on the guitar so long as it doesn't devalue the axe.

 

The Varitone is more usuable if I designate my expression pedal to purely volume and adjust the volume accordingly with my foot as required.

 

Believe it or not, I put Sperzels on the guitar as I have on all my guitars. Probably devalued the guitar by doing so but I can always put the Grovers back on it if I ever decide to get rid of it - doubtful.

 

The volute issue has not affected my playing at all so it is not an issue for me so long as it doesn't devalue the axe in some way.

 

Though it is HIGHLY argueable that a $3700 guitar should not have these issues, this is an amazing guitar that in the little time I've had it has already made me a better guitar player. Though I love my Carvin and my Strat, there's something about this particular guitar neck that just fits my hand better than any other guitar I've played allowing me to do some things I haven't been able to do before. The wide range of tonal possibilities is a plus. I must confess I've actually played very little Rush on it since I've gotten it. I've played mostly clean but I can grunge if I want to nearly as good as my M22 pup'd Carvin will. I can twang if I want to nearly as good as my Strat.

 

Despite the issues, I would have to say I'm satisified and happy with my purchase though there is no way to cost justify a hobby like this. I would rate it a 4 out of 5 just due to all the issues. Issues that are all for the most part already resolved except the tremolo rod screw hole.

[PJLCC14]

So.....Al 039 goes for 3318.00......how about that turkeyT & VRob.........still think it's just a little secret amoung the people of this thread?

[VRob8]

So.....Al 039 goes for 3318.00......how about that turkeyT & VRob.........still think it's just a little secret amoung the people of this thread?

 

Probably' date=' yes. The final selling price of this one had far more to do with the fact that the seller had poor feedback, provided lousy pictures and made NO comments about the condition of the guitar other than that it was 'used'. A seller who had good feedback, selling a 'Dead Mint' guitar with decent pictures and a good description would still realise more than retail price - especially if selling outside of the US, where ALs are [i']very[/i] hard to find. That could well become even more the case when the last of the run sells out at dealers.

 

I'm betting that none of the bidders on this one knew anything about a 'volute issue', and I put it to you that if it was common knowledge that there was such a 'structural flaw' on the guitar, the auction would have struggled to even reach the minimum bid. I also suggest that most people who own an AL will never realise there's a discrepancy with the volute placement unless they visit here or the LPF, which are pretty small communities.

 

None of this is intended to disparage those who do have legitimate concerns regarding the volute (and some other issues) but my contention is that those concerns are largely confined to a limited section of the guitar buying public.