ES-165 is now on Wikipedia (help?)

[SamBooka]

(crossposting from Gibson forums since I thought Zephyr Regent owners might be interested in posting)

 

I have never posted on Wikipedia so I think I did it right.

 

Here is the link

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Es-165

 

To the best of my knowledge is is accurate. It is not complete.

Didnt mention the Zigzag vs standard tailpiece.

Mention the Jazz Profile neck but didnt give dimension.

Mention that the two-pickup ES-165 Plus exists but that is it.

Havent figured out how to get pics on there yet.

Gibson sent me a data sheet, blurb, and pic of the first (1991) variant but I havent gotten anything about the current model.

 

 

I dont see it on the site anymore.. is the ES-165 still available?

 

Anyone want to add/correct anything?

 

Busy week but I will update what I can.

 

Thanks

 

Drew

[brianh]

=SamBookaHavent figured out how to get pics on there yet.

 

I know nothing about the 165, but it looks good to me so far, goodonya.

 

To post pics, you have to sign up to their sister server.

 

It's not intuitive, but it can be done, see the Epi Geneisis site and my pics of my Custom and some other Gibson data:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphone_Genesis

[SamBooka]

Thanks!

I just went in and added more and moved it around.

REALLY tired and writing it reminds me of being in high school lol

 

I actually want to take a picture of mine and post it (IF I ever get it)

 

Thanks for the tip :)

 

Drew

[carverman]

(crossposting from Gibson forums since I thought Zephyr Regent owners might be interested in posting)

 

I have never posted on Wikipedia so I think I did it right.

 

Here is the link

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Es-165

 

To the best of my knowledge is is accurate. It is not complete.

Didnt mention the Zigzag vs standard tailpiece.

Mention the Jazz Profile neck but didnt give dimension.

Mention that the two-pickup ES-165 Plus exists but that is it.

Havent figured out how to get pics on there yet.

Gibson sent me a data sheet' date=' blurb, and pic of the first (1991) variant but I havent gotten anything about the current model.

 

 

I dont see it on the site anymore.. is the ES-165 still available?

 

Anyone want to add/correct anything?

 

Busy week but I will update what I can.

 

Thanks

 

Drew[/quote']

 

 

Nice work! I can't think of anything to add to it right now. here is Herb playing

it (Georgia on my Mind) with Charlie Byrd and Tal Farlow in some kind of workshop.

From the video, it doesn't have the characteristic "thistle"emblem that the ES-175

has, but the one he is playing has a neck humbucker.

 

EDIT: The Es-175 needs a better tp than that! Gibson needs to put the nicer

current ES-175 tp on it.

 

noticed that he is using (perhaps) the Scotty Moore? string damper, so feedback was

still a problem with these.

 

[SamBooka]

Just checked it out now.

Thanks for the link. That is definitely a 165. Nice to see he actually used one (although he might be like Joe Pass who supposedly only used his JP Ibanez as his travel guitar overseas).

He has the Van Eps damper on the headstock but it looks broken? Something doesnt look right but it is hard to see.

 

I dont understand what you mean about the TP. I dont love the Zigzag but it doesnt bother me.

I though current 165/175s all have zigs now. (it was in the 60s or 70s they changed them to save money).

[carverman]

Just checked it out now.

 

I dont understand what you mean about the TP. I dont love the Zigzag but it doesnt bother me.

I though current 165/175s all have zigs now. (it was in the 60s or 70s they changed them to save money).

 

Not so. The Es-175s that I played in the Gibson showrooms in Memphis and Nashville both

had the cast tp with the 3 diamonds. It is a much better tp for the 175/165.

 

Here is what they did to the "175" tp on the Tal Farlow, which I also played, but didn't

like the tone from the p_ups in Nashville.

 

http://www.scottymoore.net/talfarlow.html

 

IMO, the Herb Ellis model definitely needs an "upgrade" on the tp. But at least they

improved the tone with the BJB pickup. That humbucker seemed to sound a bit "thin"..

but maybe it's just Youtube.

[SamBooka]

You find the Zig zag doesnt sound as good or doesnt look as good?

I know the original zigzag had the zigs much closer to the center bar.

That is an esthetic sorepoint but fine with me.I am old school.. I have a hard time with anything fancy (not to mention gold).

 

That said, the zig zag doesnt bother me too much. I am more concerned about getting a good sound out of her.

I had done some playing around with my emp regent (making new forks of different lengths)

Aside from esthetics and being able to use shorter stings I didnt notice much of a diff in tone.

I even made a poormans benedetto TP using a piece of maple flooring and zip ties. Again, no big difference (looked like hell tho)

 

Gibson emailed me saying that the 165 is still available but I have to contact a dealer.

It isnt on their web page. The 175 on the page still has the ziggy.

There were two places in Ottawa that had them. L&M and some boutique (nice place) Lauzon or something like that.

 

EDIT: I dont know why I mentioned the dealers.. I am not buying one from them lol.

[brianh]

I actually want to take a picture of mine and post it (IF I ever get it)

If you have any personal photos of 165s you want me to post to the wiki, I can do it on my account.

 

They don't like it when you post copyrighted photos, or photos that you don't have specific reprint rights to, so they have to be your own, and you have to check off boxes relinquishing any rights, blah, blah, blah...

[carverman]

You find the Zig zag doesnt sound as good or doesnt look as good?

 

Both. With those wires rattling. Just as bad as the Lyre style on the JP.

With the price they ask on these Gibsons' date=' I wouldn't buy one unless it had the

other style cast tp. Besides, you can get these zig-zags on the the aftermarket

to fit any style of archtop..what is the exclusive thing about that..ok..I suppose

the tulip tuners are copied everywhere as well..but that is more tolerable.

 

That said, the zig zag doesnt bother me too much. I am more concerned about getting a good sound out of her.

I had done some playing around with my emp regent (making new forks of different lengths)

 

Those frequensators suck as well. I kept mine on the Epi Triumph, but took it off on the Broadway

and replaced it with my own custom made art deco solid copper-gold plated tp.

 

Aside from esthetics and being able to use shorter stings I didnt notice much of a diff in tone.

I even made a poormans benedetto TP using a piece of maple flooring and zip ties.

Again, no big difference (looked like hell tho)

 

I don't like those violin style tp on a Gibson archtop. The tp should add substance and looks

and if you are going to pay 3 grand for an archtop made of formed plywood..it better have some

nice embellishments.

 

It isnt on their web page. The 175 on the page still has the ziggy.

 

Tsk! Tsk!...obviously they ran out of the cast style and now using aftermarket ones to save money

...good move.

Next thing you know they will be making them out of formed plywood...(oh they already are)...

so what's unique about these..the BJB..but the Es-175 with the classic 57s gives you both

p_ups..so what is so special about these other than Herb Ellis endorsing it?

[SamBooka]

I dont think they are cheap aftermarket copies they are using now because it has only been ziggys on the 165 since 1991. I dont know when they went back to them on the 175.

 

in 57 the Ziggy was un upgrade to the parallelogram TP.

From 69 on they went back to the parallelogram because it was easier (that is cheaper) to make and it was already in use on other models (like you mention, the Tal Farlow, Howard Roberts (again with the wooden inset) L4s etc)

 

I will hopefully know next week if they rattle

[carverman]

' date=' Howard Roberts (again with the wooden inset) L4s etc)

 

[/quote']

 

 

The Howard Roberts Epiphone with the oval soundhole is unique. That one

is worth it's weight in gold. It had a carved spruce top and acoustically

sounded like a flat top.

One of these HR Customs actually made it to Ottawa, and my boss back

then owned one. (Don't know what happened to it after he passed away

a few years ago, though)

http://www.vintageguitars.org.uk/EpiphoneHowardRoberts.php

 

http://vintageguitarz.blogspot.com/2008/04/1967-custom-epiphone-howard-roberts.html

 

 

I noticed that there is a wiki page on HR, but no pic of the guitar or the

standard HR model either.

[smips65]

(crossposting from Gibson forums since I thought Zephyr Regent owners might be interested in posting)

 

I have never posted on Wikipedia

Drew

 

I have not either..

 

Brian, it seems that you have.

 

Is this a useful tool for others?

The actual guitar is no longer made, so is this for "vintage interest"

 

 

I have no objection to adding info, just don't know if anyone is interested...

[SamBooka]

The way I look at it is that on the wikipedia servers a blurb on the 165 or the ZepReg take sooo little space. Why not put what you know in there. It is not a forum, not a place for opinion, but I think we can control ourselves enough to stick to the facts.

 

I was asking the question "What is the difference between a 96 ES-165 and a 96 ES-175. I didnt find much in terms of answers but eventually got it. I then wondered what HE's involvement was, does he actually use them etc etc. That info I didnt put in the wiki because I cant validate the sources (although google Herb Ellis and look at the picture results there are MANY photos of him with this guitar, and not just promo shots.)

 

All along I see other people asking questions: I though the HE had a HB.. not floater. What gives? I saw at GC a HE with two pickups, I dont understand. You get the idea. So I decided to write something.

 

If you have facts you can back up on the ZepReg go ahead and write something. I was VERY impressed with it and am disappointed it is discontinued. If you google "Zephyr Regent" enough you surely find lots of posts with people asking questions about it. If you can answer those questions with a wiki (and you are feeling generous with your time) GO FOR IT

 

I have the 165 wiki up. I have advertised it here and the gibson forums. It will be interesting to see what edits people do over the next few weeks

[carverman]

I was asking the question "What is the difference between a 96 ES-165 and a 96 ES-175. I didnt find much in terms of answers but eventually got it. I then wondered what HE's involvement was' date=' does he actually use them etc etc. That info I didnt put in the wiki because I cant validate the sources (although google Herb Ellis and look at the picture results there are MANY photos of him with this guitar, and not just promo shots.) [/quote']

 

Well he didn't always play Gibson. For a while in the earlier years (80s perhaps) he was endorsing and playing

an Aria Pro II..which seemed to be a combo of Super 400 fingerboard, and L5 tp, and ES-175 switch placement

amongst other things. (scroll to almost bottom to see a picture of the Aria Pro PE175)

http://www.jazzguitar.be/jazz_guitars.html

 

Here is a youtube video of HE playing an Aria Pro PE175 with Barney Kessel. (SLOW BURN)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taeaLY3KJUc&feature=related

 

All along I see other people asking questions: I though the HE had a HB.. not floater. What gives? I saw at GC a HE with two pickups, I dont understand. You get the idea. So I decided to write something.

 

If he was playing a sharp cutaway guitar with two p_ups, then chances are it probably was a 175.

It wouldn't make a lot of sense for Gibson to put a bridge p_up on a 165.

[SamBooka]

Lol .. I agree a 2 PU HE doesnt make much sense.

Google "ES-165 Herb Ellis Plus" to see what one would look like.

 

I had a chance to pick up an Aria HE sig last year. Passed.

Just didnt do it for me. But you are right, he did use them quite a bit in the 80s when they came out.

[carverman]

Lol .. I agree a 2 PU HE doesnt make much sense.

Google "ES-165 Herb Ellis Plus" to see what one would look like.

 

I had a chance to pick up an Aria HE sig last year. Passed.

Just didnt do it for me. But you are right' date=' he did use them quite a bit in the 80s when they came out.[/quote']

 

 

Oh well...Herb Ellis Plus...if one just has to have a Herb Ellis 165 with a bridge pup,

two tones.vols and a 3 way.. sure why not? Stick the controls on the ends of

obscured f-holes and silk screen "Gibson Memphis" and Herb Ellis signature on it,

and lets not forget to get a video of Herb playing it. [ROLL]

 

 

Where there is a buck to be made,

Gibson can satisfy that need too and charge a lot more for it. :-

 

I just wonder how may jazz players use the bridge p_up anyway.

Good jazz guitar should be mellow with rich deep bass. Can't get that out of a bridge p_up.

The ES-175 has been used in other genres of music besides jazz though, so maybe there

it makes more sense.

[SamBooka]

it is a shame but Pat Metheny's 175 is a late 50 single PU. (the one with the toothbrush tailpiece)

He decided to put the bridge PU in .. and didnt like it. Pulled it out and filled some of the holes.

 

Admire that for him it is a working instrument, a tool.

Still, a bit of a shame :/