Putting a Gibson 295 Trapeze tailpiece on an Epi 295

[donald]

Dear All,

Just wondered if anyone has taken the Bigsby off an epi 295 and put a Gibson 295 Trapeze tailpiece on.This means taking off the floating bridge as well-see link for what I'm thinking of

 

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/star/bluemoon/pinkdog/guitar/1953_Gibson_ES-295_A15767.jpg

 

 

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/star/bluemoon/pinkdog/guitar/1953_Gibson_ES-295_A15767.jpg

 

Where did you get the Tailpiece from cos its bigger than the ones I've seen elsewhere as its the bridge as well.Any links/firms that make these /tips/idea of cost(UK!) would be appreciated

Thanks

[Vic Flick]

Dear All' date='

Just wondered if anyone has taken the Bigsby off an epi 295 and put a Gibson 295 Trapeze tailpiece on.This means taking off the floating bridge as well-see link for what I'm thinking of

 

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/star/bluemoon/pinkdog/guitar/1953_Gibson_ES-295_A15767.jpg

 

 

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/star/bluemoon/pinkdog/guitar/1953_Gibson_ES-295_A15767.jpg

 

Where did you get the Tailpiece from cos its bigger than the ones I've seen elsewhere as its the bridge as well.Any links/firms that make these /tips/idea of cost(UK!) would be appreciated

Thanks[/quote']

 

Forget about it. First of all, there's no guarantee that your Epiphone is identical in size to a 50+ year old Gibson. If not, the bridge won't be in the proper position. And even if it is, those things are horrible. As Peter said, Happy "intonating".

 

Plus the neck angle might be too shallow for the high bridge. That would also cause the string could be too high over the pickups. That's why Gibson abandoned these tail pieces on Les Pauls after a year or so.

 

Next thing, there's going to be screw holes in the top of your beautiful gold top from the Bigsby.

 

Now if you find one, how much do you think it's going to cost you for the privilege of having screw holes in the top of a guitar that doesn't play in tune with high action???

[brianh]

That trapeze bridge/tailpice was invented and patented by Les Paul and used on the first ~3,000 LPs in 1952. By his own admission, it was an utter failure due to the mismatched LP neck angle. So you might want to consider that problem first.

 

Once you get past the neck angle issue, there's the issue of intonation. The flat bar is not adjustable or offset for string length/diameter, so you'll have to accept an "average" intonation across the bridge.

 

Lastly, the trapeze bridge does not put nearly as much string pressure on the top of the guitar as a Bigsby with a TOM, so acoustically, the guitar will sound weaker than before.

 

I only know this particular bit of useless info because I used to have a 50's Gibby ES-225T that was a wonderful guitar except I could never tune it properly in all registers. I miss the guit, but not the tail...

 

[twofeets]

Someone out there - and I can't remember who - is making a repro long trapeze tailpiece that has had some modifications to the original design to help with string angle, intonation, and such. Whether this would work with an Epiphone, I don't know - the Epi ES295 body is slimmer than the original Gibson ES295 - but I do recall the tailpiece itself was extremely expensive, almost the price of a used Epi ES295.

 

I also know a guy who restored a real 50's ES295 about a year ago. He had a heck of a time finding a tailpiece for it (this was presumably before repros were being made).

 

Gibson has recently done a Les Paul Tribute model that has a similarly-modified trapeze setup.

 

These tailpieces have been rightfully slagged over the years, but they do have a small but devout following of people who say that, properly set up, they act like a tuning fork.

[Parabar]

Not only intonation, but there is no way to adjust the action either higher or lower, so if you change string gauges, you're stuck with what you get. This was a bad design from the get-go, and Gibson wised up fairly quickly. We've since had half a century of refinements --- why not learn from evolution and science? It's one thing to restore a classic antique car to showpiece status, but if you actually want to drive somewhere, a modern car will provide a much smoother ride.

[donald]

Dear All,

Thanks for the comments,interested that this new LP goldtop has one and an epi 295 on ebay did have asmaller one-does that work better cos its still got the bridge?(See link)

 

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250656388018&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_6142wt_1265

[donald]

PS

Should add -not after an original Gibson 295 tailpiece -just wondering if anyone knows a company making them

Thanks

[Vic Flick]

Dear All' date='

Thanks for the comments,interested that this new LP goldtop has one and an epi 295 on ebay did have asmaller one-does that work better cos its still got the bridge?(See link)

 

 

 

PS

Should add -not after an original Gibson 295 tailpiece -just wondering if anyone knows a company making them

Thanks

 

[/quote']

 

Leave the freakin' guitar alone before you ruin it. Do you understand about the neck angle??? Look at the Bigsby, there's a tension bar that the strings go under so there a sharp angle from tailpiece to bridge. That causes downward tension on the bridge, you will lose that tension if you switch to a trapeze tp. That means you'll lose tone and sustain. Strum hard and strings could pop off the saddles. There's a possibility that you'll have to raise the bridge to compensate. There goes your action. The guitar was designed for the Bigsby B-70, why would you want to downgrade and lose performance???

 

Those old Gibsons were designed with a steep neck angle to accommodate those tailpieces, but not your Epiphone. And someone did make an aftermarket tailpiece, it cost $350 to $400. And it still sucked!!!

[brianh]

Well...ahem...

 

Here's the only trapeze tailpiece you're likely to find not attached to an early 50's LP, ES-225 or ES-295 anywhere:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/vintage-1957-Gibson-es-225-tailpiece-/130409205591?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Guitar&hash=item1e5cfe8f57

 

Go for it!

 

(If I'd have kept it, I could have sold the tailpiece off my ES-225T for more than I sold the entire guitar for in 1975... )

[brianh]

Dear All' date='

Thanks for the comments,interested that this new LP goldtop has one and an epi 295 on ebay did have asmaller one-does that work better cos its still got the bridge? (See link)

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250656388018&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_6142wt_1265

[/quote']

At least with that one, the tune-o-matic bridge gives you an intonatable guitar and ablity to adjust the action, not to mention adequate string pressure on the top. It is also more true to Scotty Moore's ES-295 which had a TOM and short trapeze.

 

Sometimes I wonder if folks who are having trouble with Bigsbys keeping tune have tried any of the obvious solutions like nut sauce, graphite nut, roller bridge, locking tuners, etc.