MediaMan Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 Where can I find more detail info of the Epiphone Lucille, eg, more info on the - make and model of the pickups and controls - make and model of the tuners - neck and body dimensions ( is it identical to the Gibson Lucille) - is the neck solid maple of laminate like the top/side/back - what does B-N-H mean re the binding? - material for the block inlays - finishes (water based laquer? nitrocellulose?) - porper us of mono and stereo cables re mone/stereo jacks - wiring diagrams ( for pickups and varitone), - pics of rear of the unit - etc. I am aware of the more general sales type info listed below... simply looking for more meat : ) Gibson Epiphone Product Page** Epiphone Lucille Product Page** EpiPhone Lucille Overview** EpiPhone Lucille Press Pics Epiphone General Owners Manual **with odd product pics (looks like all white sides)?? compared to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjael Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 Where can I find more detail info of the Epiphone Lucille, eg, more info on the -snip- I am aware of the more general sales type info listed below... simply looking for more meat : ) - make and model of the pickups and controls Epiphone Alnico Classic (57CH) humbuckers. The pots are most likely the generic asian pots found on most Epiphones. - make and model of the tuners I think they are stock Epiphone tuners (nothing wrong with them.) - neck and body dimensions ( is it identical to the Gibson Lucille) Close enough that it should fit the same cases. - is the neck solid maple of laminate like the top/side/back Don't know of anyone who's stripped or broken their Lucille enough to answer that. It will at least be scarf-jointed at the headstock. - what does B-N-H mean re the binding? Means Body - Neck - Headstock. The full package. - material for the block inlays Most probably pearloid. - finishes (water based laquer? nitrocellulose?) 99% of Epiphones are finished with Poly. The color is almost always entirely contained within the poly. - porper us of mono and stereo cables re mone/stereo jacks The guitar has two output jacks. You can run them into different amps, or an A/B box to select between the two. Or you can just use the guitar in mono mode. - wiring diagrams ( for pickups and varitone), Will be identical to the Gibson one. - pics of rear of the unit http://www.gbase.com/files/store_images/gear/2146473/p4_uife55n2d_so.jpg - etc. Buy it now! **with odd product pics (looks like all white sides)?? compared to this I'm sure that's just a reflection. It's definitely black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediaMan Posted September 8, 2010 Author Share Posted September 8, 2010 Sjael, a thousand thanks for the crystal clear info. Buy it now? Mega tempting. I could buy almost four of them the price of the gibson real deal lucille I am toying with (the one I thought I wanted)!! This epi is amazing value. The gibson is in reach, but even so, it sure is hard to jutify in light of price, QA concerns and the epi alternative. I know they are two different guitars in terms of tradition, resale, materials, etc, and many would rather get a used gibson than a new epi, but I could even find the gibson I wanted... and this is for home use only.... so now I'm thinking to perhaps get me an epi, and if and when the perfect gibson comes along, I'll know it. I only heard two negatives on the epi - one is a caution on the electronics (but at worst pickups and pots can be changed - something I'd be far more comfortable doing on an epi than a gibson) - and the other relates to the quality consistency of the epi's (one might be perfect, another may not - for which one needs an accomodating dealer - but gibsons have QA issues as well - why pay thousands for issues when you can pay hundreds) Interesting choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjael Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 Sjael, a thousand thanks for the crystal clear info. Buy it now? Mega tempting. I could buy almost four of them the price of the gibson real deal lucille I am toying with (the one I thought I wanted)!! Not a problem! I know what you mean about the price of Gibsons. I used to dream about the day when I would be able to afford a Gibson <insert model here> but now that I actually *can* afford them, I really don't want to spend thousands on a guitar; especially after playing Epiphones and knowing that the Gibson isn't *that* much better. A big issue for me is the finish too - except the opposite of the norm - I much prefer the Poly finish on Epiphone guitars as I don't have to be so pedantic about cleaning it! The big thing with Epiphones is getting the good ones and not the lemons. My Prophecy Les Paul is flawless and just a fantastic guitar in every regard - but I've played other Prophecy LPs that would sound better in a fireplace. Trying before you buy is highly recommended. Being a hobbyist guitar builder also helps a lot - I can have whatever the hell kind of guitar I like - and usually for about the same price as an Epi, all things considered, and excluding time and labour... Good luck in your purchasing, whichever way you go, and if you go with the Epi (or even if you don't,) do stick around, we have a great bunch here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediaMan Posted September 8, 2010 Author Share Posted September 8, 2010 Thanks for the warm welcome... and articlating the dream very well! Re PICKUPS, you mentioned "Epiphone Alnico Classic (57CH)", I assume CH means "Classic Humbucker". Saw a reference elsewhere to "Epiphone 57 Classic Humbuckers Pickups New Alnico classic magnets. Double vacuum waxed. Enamel wire. Chrome cover. The pickup is a copy of the famous & highly desired Gibson '57 Classic P.A.F. humbucking pickup. So I assume thats the one. The real Lucille has 490R & 490T pickups , so I assume the Epi has a different tone (due to this and a thousand other factors). Have you played either Lucille? Try before you buy is exactly right, but most stores here dont have them in stock. They will gladly order them of course (some asking for a deposit), but it makes it harder to "choose" ... more of a hit and miss... ie please order one, nope dont like this one ; could you please order another one". I guess some dealers are more accomodating than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjael Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 Thanks for the warm welcome... and articlating the dream very well! Re PICKUPS, you mentioned "Epiphone Alnico Classic (57CH)", I assume CH means "Classic Humbucker". Saw a reference elsewhere to "Epiphone 57 Classic Humbuckers Pickups New Alnico classic magnets. Double vacuum waxed. Enamel wire. Chrome cover. The pickup is a copy of the famous & highly desired Gibson '57 Classic P.A.F. humbucking pickup. So I assume thats the one. The real Lucille has 490R & 490T pickups , so I assume the Epi has a different tone (due to this and a thousand other factors). Have you played either Lucille? Try before you buy is exactly right, but most stores here dont have them in stock. They will gladly order them of course (some asking for a deposit), but it makes it harder to "choose" ... more of a hit and miss... ie please order one, nope dont like this one ; could you please order another one". I guess some dealers are more accomodating than others. I've only played the Epiphone Lucille unplugged. It is a very nice guitar, it's not in my budget at the moment though. Gibson's '57 Classics and 490R/490T are still quite similar in tone, but the '57s are a tad darker. Epi's 57 Classics are supposed to replicate their Gibson counterparts, but I find they have a bit more of a vintage voice than the 57s, somehow. Most of a guitar's tone happens at the amp anyhow. With even the simplest EQ you will able to make it sound just like BB's Lucille. I do recommend dumping the stock electronics, though. They are pretty bad, and some liken a new set of CTS pots to 'lifting a blanket off your amp.' In some cases I have to agree with this. As for stores not having guitars in stock, tell me about it! I live in wee little New Zealand, that has about the buying power of a gnat. Most limited run Epis never come here at all, and a lot of their more mainstream models still have to be ordered in to my local branch(es.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken374 Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 I played one saturday it really sound good and thick, great for rock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediaMan Posted September 8, 2010 Author Share Posted September 8, 2010 PICKUPS- Re pickups, you are correct - between amps and equalizers, one can certainly achieve the desired tone. Aa well, door is always open to change pikcups - a common practice for enthusiasnt - even the gibson owners.. My main concerns was are there any known QA issue re the Epi pickup ( ie are the crap out the the box, poor soldering points, faulty etc.) As long as I dont have to change them asap for QA reasons, this can wait. POTS - As to the pots and swtiches, the lucille has a rear access panel (vs other semi-hollows with no rear access) , I would have no hesitation getting out the old soldering iron, and replacing pots and switches. Seems a whole lot easier than replacing pickups (asuming one can find the correct replacement parts and one does not have to re-drill holes. There is a good video clip here on the topic : http://www.planetz.com/?p=250 . I think the guys is right - ie dont bother changing them for tone, but certainly do change them if the stock ones are defective, lectrically noisy, physically scratchy, hard to turns etc. I assume these latter points are the issue with Epis, ie there are junky and worth replacing right away. I would want to line that up right away so would need to hit the stewmac.com site to see whats there that would fit - concerns being US vs metric, cavity size restriciions ( are mini psots needed?), rating ( 500K or 1mega-ohm taper seems to be the way to go). If I were doing this, given parts are dirt cheap, I would want top quailty parts. TUNERS - Other parts like tuners I assmue can wait and can be done down the road. WOOD - One last point, sure, onc can change the pots and varitones, the 3 way switches, the pickups, the tuners. ( all gratifying projects) ..and still be way ahead...but one cannot change the wood. Not too concerned about laminates vs soild ( as even high-end gibsons have laminates), but whatis the real scoop on the wood quality - is it crap or adequate. Resonance in a semi hollow is function of the wood, so this is not a trivial point. OVERALL - Seems the lke Epi's are perfect for those who want a good base to start with and are willing and able to make some minor mods (or have it done for them). Again would much rather do this on an epi than a gibson.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymac Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 POTS - As to the pots and swtiches, the lucille has a rear access panel (vs other semi-hollows with no rear access) , I would have no hesitation getting out the old soldering iron, and replacing pots and switches. Seems a whole lot easier than replacing pickups (asuming one can find the correct replacement parts and one does not have to re-drill holes. There is a good video clip here on the topic : http://www.planetz.com/?p=250 . I think the guys is right - ie dont bother changing them for tone, but certainly do change them if the stock ones are defective, lectrically noisy, physically scratchy, hard to turns etc. I assume these latter points are the issue with Epis, ie there are junky and worth replacing right away. I would want to line that up right away so would need to hit the stewmac.com site to see whats there that would fit - concerns being US vs metric, cavity size restriciions ( are mini psots needed?), rating ( 500K or 1mega-ohm taper seems to be the way to go). If I were doing this, given parts are dirt cheap, I would want top quailty parts. The stereo Varitone circuit on the Epi Lucille is not your standard rewiring job. Do not start replacing components unless you fully understand what's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyg Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 PICKUPS- Re pickups, you are correct - between amps and equalizers, one can certainly achieve the desired tone. Aa well, door is always open to change pikcups - a common practice for enthusiasnt - even the gibson owners.. My main concerns was are there any known QA issue re the Epi pickup ( ie are the crap out the the box, poor soldering points, faulty etc.) As long as I dont have to change them asap for QA reasons, this can wait. POTS - As to the pots and swtiches, the lucille has a rear access panel (vs other semi-hollows with no rear access) , I would have no hesitation getting out the old soldering iron, and replacing pots and switches. Seems a whole lot easier than replacing pickups (asuming one can find the correct replacement parts and one does not have to re-drill holes. There is a good video clip here on the topic : http://www.planetz.com/?p=250 . I think the guys is right - ie dont bother changing them for tone, but certainly do change them if the stock ones are defective, lectrically noisy, physically scratchy, hard to turns etc. I assume these latter points are the issue with Epis, ie there are junky and worth replacing right away. I would want to line that up right away so would need to hit the stewmac.com site to see whats there that would fit - concerns being US vs metric, cavity size restriciions ( are mini psots needed?), rating ( 500K or 1mega-ohm taper seems to be the way to go). If I were doing this, given parts are dirt cheap, I would want top quailty parts. TUNERS - Other parts like tuners I assmue can wait and can be done down the road. WOOD - One last point, sure, onc can change the pots and varitones, the 3 way switches, the pickups, the tuners. ( all gratifying projects) ..and still be way ahead...but one cannot change the wood. Not too concerned about laminates vs soild ( as even high-end gibsons have laminates), but whatis the real scoop on the wood quality - is it crap or adequate. Resonance in a semi hollow is function of the wood, so this is not a trivial point. OVERALL - Seems the lke Epi's are perfect for those who want a good base to start with and are willing and able to make some minor mods (or have it done for them). Again would much rather do this on an epi than a gibson.! I'm sorry if I'm gonna rain on your parade but don't you think you're approaching this from the wrong angle. It's your cash, and you must spend it how you please, but surely it would be better to go into this purchase with a positive attitude that the guitars going to be good rather than, I'm going to have to change this and change that. If you have to change so much you're buying the wrong guitar, unless you really enjoy doing mods as a hobby. The Lucille is not a hugely expensive guitar but it's not exactly cheap is it? Must be somewhere near the top of the Epiphone standard range. When I bought my Riviera in '83 loads of people told me it was Jap crap and I'd have to do all sorts to make it playable. Well, in 27 years the only thing I've changed is the knobs, and only then because I preferred gold ones to black ones. Buy it, live with it and enjoy it. If something's wrong change it but if it ain't broke why fix it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymac Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 That's the electronics.......(not mine) That's jerrymac's old Lucille AFTER he simplified the electronics. You see the pot on top between the switch and the circuit board??? It was totally concealed by braided wire soldered to the top. You couldn't even get to the lugs without disconnecting 1/2 the electronics, so just swapping pickups was a major hassle. And you don't want to break off any of the wires on the underside of the circuit board, and that's really easy to do because the wiring is tight and there's not much play. So I'm told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediaMan Posted September 8, 2010 Author Share Posted September 8, 2010 The stereo Varitone circuit on the Epi Lucille is not your standard rewiring job. Do not start replacing components unless you fully understand what's going on. Correct. There are quite a few posts on rewiring the varitone ( to implement a true bypass or to elimiante it altogther). I would not take that on so fast. I was initially referring to just the switch, if it proved to be problematic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediaMan Posted September 8, 2010 Author Share Posted September 8, 2010 I'm sorry if I'm gonna rain on your parade but don't you think you're approaching this from the wrong angle. It's your cash, and you must spend it how you please, but surely it would be better to go into this purchase with a positive attitude that the guitars going to be good rather than, I'm going to have to change this and change that. If you have to change so much you're buying the wrong guitar, unless you really enjoy doing mods as a hobby. The Lucille is not a hugely expensive guitar but it's not exactly cheap is it? Must be somewhere near the top of the Epiphone standard range. I hear you - its not that its the wrong guitar - I really like this epi (and only this one), its more a case of jumping in with eyes wide open. So the question is, would I buy this epi knowing the issues some users have - and the answer is still yes. When I bought my Riviera in '83 loads of people told me it was Jap crap and I'd have to do all sorts to make it playable. Well, in 27 years the only thing I've changed is the knobs, and only then because I preferred gold ones to black ones. Buy it, live with it and enjoy it. If something's wrong change it but if it ain't broke why fix it? I agree. I do not need to change a thing until such time as the problem surfaces, if at all. I just really wanted to be prepared for it ( as its a known issue), ie line thigss up in my head, so I would know whats involved in case I needed to address it. Would not change for the sake of change but rather only to solve a real probelem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediaMan Posted September 8, 2010 Author Share Posted September 8, 2010 That's jerrymac's old Lucille AFTER he simplified the electronics. You see the pot on top between the switch and the circuit board??? It was totally concealed by braided wire soldered to the top. You couldn't even get to the lugs without disconnecting 1/2 the electronics, so just swapping pickups was a major hassle. And you don't want to break off any of the wires on the underside of the circuit board, and that's really easy to do because the wiring is tight and there's not much play. So I'm told. Yes, my Godin was quite cramped as well. Didnt say it would be easy!. Simple in concept perhaps but yah, not so easy to execute without some careful planning. I get (and appreciate) the general message - tread carefully, know your liminations, understand the challenges, and dont be afraid to ask for help! What is good from all this is that I am, still an epi lucille fan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeks Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 Where is Cheeks when someone needs him ? SOS SOS SOS... CHEEKS TO THE RESCUE..... The tuning machines on my Epi Lucille are GROVERS. Gold Grovers. My fretboard is so dark, i would almost call it black or ebony as opposed to rosewood. Very dark and black, goes wonderful with the rest of the guitar color. Lucille is heavy too, I'd compare to a Gibson Studio weight for sure... and very solid too. I never have taken the back cover off for a look inside, but i will state that the switch contacts give the switch knob plenty of springiness... when changing switch positions. That tells me that the switch is rather well made as opposed to something that has no bites on the contact springiness... By viewing the photos above, i see the PC boards soldered to the Vari-Tone ganged switch... that is actually better than having the individual parts soldered to the switch and hanging there themselves. When the pc boards are soldered to the switch gangs... it stiffens the the entire switch assembly... for the "better." So, the PC boards are a plus in this case. They should hold the capacitors i imagine... as i can't see the caps, but i can see the PC board holes where they are soldered into. Do i like her, I LOVE HER ! I actually use the Vari-Tone frequently and that CooL control really changes her voice dramatically. I had a chance to play MY LUCILLE into a Peavey BLUES DELTA 30W TUBE AMP yesterday all afternoon.... and WOW ! Peavey DELTA BLUES schematics/layouts - CLICK HERE Lucille and that amp are made for each other ! Made me cry ! W O N D E R F U L !!!!! CHEEKS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymac Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 Correct. There are quite a few posts on rewiring the varitone ( to implement a true bypass or to elimiante it altogther). I would not take that on so fast. I was initially referring to just the switch, if it proved to be problematic. Nothing is standard on these guitars, not even the switch. The varitone isn't like standard style varitone on a rotary switch with one hot and one ground. It a circuit boards with multiple I/Os. Because there's two jacks, there's multiple outputs coming from the switch (has extra set of lugs as I remember). Nothing is easy, nothing is standard on this guitar. If you have experience, you can do the work on it, but it's not a guitar you would want to tinker with. It's a pain, and frankly the design is a little overcomplicated. I wonder if newer ones have been simplified a bit, I've worked on a Gibson Blueshawk and the varitone works great without those gigantic chokes and circuit board. As I noted, even swapping pickups is difficult because the lugs on the pots are buried beneath braided wire. Good luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeks Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 Here is the Gibson schematic for Lucille... I think i read someplace that the Epi values are a bit different in the schematic due to different pickups that are not the same pickups as the Gibson Lucille. Thus far, I have not been able to find a EPI Lucille schematic... I do NOT know IF the schematics below apply to a LUCILLE ? I have no idea, but I did find this for info only I guess...(BELOW)... CHEEKS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungrycat Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 My fretboard is so dark, i would almost call it black or ebony as opposed to rosewood. Very dark and black, goes wonderful with the rest of the guitar color. Just because it's dark doesn't mean it's ebony. There are some brownish species of ebony, and some super dark varieties of rosewood. Ebony is usually very smooth with a closed grain. Rosewood isn't as smooth and has a somewhat open grain. I doubt that it's ebony, but rather a dark piece of rosewood. I believe the only Epis currently available with ebony boards are the Prophecies, and even they don't have the super-black(Gabboon Ebony?)boards. I believe they have the brown-er(Maccassar Ebony?)species. Edit: I just double-checked, and Epiphone specifies the Lucile as having a rosewood board. If you like the dark rosewood, that's great. I usually like mine more on the brown side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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