ES-135 Sound advice

[glennc]

Hello,

I own an early ES-175 with the P100 pickups. I am unsatisfied with the sound. I have seen several ways to go, from minimal changes (preferable) to major ones. I like a bluesy, jazz type sound, has to be moderately powerful as my amp won't push without becoming too loud. I've tried the sound of split humbuckers on single coil which I assume is similar to the P90s, feel free to clarify if I am wrong. I have also seen adapter rings for mini-humbuckers which may produce more power. The sound I like best is 57 classics. The last option which would require routing out would be to put in 57's in it.

Would any of you knowledgeable members give their opinions on the choices to accomplish my goal? Thanks in advance.

glennc

[RadioXGtr]

My 94 ES-135 had already been refitted with a Bill Lawrence in the neck and a Rio Grande in the bridge position. I didn't choose them, but I am 100% delighted with the sound. I have not actually used the P-100s, but the reviews have been generally lackluster. I'm a big Bill Lawrence fan and his L500 pickups. Rio Grande is new to me, but it is a great pup for lead work. The down side is strictly cosmetic. I personally don't care for the mismatched look of a twin rail and standard humbucker on the same guitar.

[glennc]

My 94 ES-135 had already been refitted with a Bill Lawrence in the neck and a Rio Grande in the bridge position. I didn't choose them, but I am 100% delighted with the sound. I have not actually used the P-100s, but the reviews have been generally lackluster. I'm a big Bill Lawrence fan and his L500 pickups. Rio Grande is new to me, but it is a great pup for lead work. The down side is strictly cosmetic. I personally don't care for the mismatched look of a twin rail and standard humbucker on the same guitar.

 

Howdy RadioXGtr,

That is a fine looking guitar. So those are mini-humbuckers. Wish you had the experience to compare with the P100. I can say that with my amp, same settings and the guitars all 10s, my cheap epiphone les paul humbuckers were quite a bit louder. Know I'm going to want to put a Bigsby on it. Thanks.

glennc

[glennc]

Howdy,

Just checking that no one else has the knowledge or and opinion on the subject? Awaiting sage advice before making a choice. Thanks again for any assistance.

glennc

[Hall]

Howdy,

Just checking that no one else has the knowledge or and opinion on the subject? Awaiting sage advice before making a choice. Thanks again for any assistance.

glennc

 

 

glennc:

 

I'm not the guy to mod my instruments........ especially good old gals. So, I'm not much help on this one. Sorry.

[glennc]

Hello Hall,

Neither am I. But I was figuring that the P90's or Mini-humbuckers could easily be changed back. The sound of the P-100s is just not to my liking. Thanks

glennc

[Robin Nahum]

Hello,

I own an early ES-175 with the P100 pickups. I am unsatisfied with the sound. I have seen several ways to go, from minimal changes (preferable) to major ones. I like a bluesy, jazz type sound, has to be moderately powerful as my amp won't push without becoming too loud. I've tried the sound of split humbuckers on single coil which I assume is similar to the P90s, feel free to clarify if I am wrong. I have also seen adapter rings for mini-humbuckers which may produce more power. The sound I like best is 57 classics. The last option which would require routing out would be to put in 57's in it.

 

Hi Glenn,

 

Yes the P100s were not all that well received.

 

You say you like a "bluesy, jazz type sound". A P90 will give you that but there are P90s and P90s. Most are actually quite hot - even the Seymour Duncan Vintage model which is supposed to have lower output, just like the "old ones". When I was looking at large bobbin single coils, I eventually settled on a Charlie Christian which was described as "like a P90 but without the hairs". It has been great - but this was for a homebrew and you do not want to start routing.

 

So, my advice would be to contact somebody like Pete Biltoft at VintageVibe, tell him what you are after and let him wind you a P90-style pickup that meets your needs. If you use somebody else, make sure that it is somebody who will really wind you a pickup you want rather than selling you one of their standard products.

 

I have not been happy with the 57 Classics as a jazz/blues pickup. To my ears, they are a bit hot and lack warmth and clarity.

 

And I don't think minibuckers will float your boat. They are quite bright and not all that powerful generally speaking - which is why people use them in the neck position of Teles - they don't overpower the bridge.

 

RN

[glennc]

Hi Glenn,

 

Yes the P100s were not all that well received.

 

You say you like a "bluesy, jazz type sound". A P90 will give you that but there are P90s and P90s. Most are actually quite hot - even the Seymour Duncan Vintage model which is supposed to have lower output, just like the "old ones". When I was looking at large bobbin single coils, I eventually settled on a Charlie Christian which was described as "like a P90 but without the hairs". It has been great - but this was for a homebrew and you do not want to start routing.

 

So, my advice would be to contact somebody like Pete Biltoft at VintageVibe, tell him what you are after and let him wind you a P90-style pickup that meets your needs. If you use somebody else, make sure that it is somebody who will really wind you a pickup you want rather than selling you one of their standard products.

 

I have not been happy with the 57 Classics as a jazz/blues pickup. To my ears, they are a bit hot and lack warmth and clarity.

 

And I don't think minibuckers will float your boat. They are quite bright and not all that powerful generally speaking - which is why people use them in the neck position of Teles - they don't overpower the bridge.

 

RN

 

Hello Robin Nahum,

I really appreciate the amount of information you've shared. That is the type of stuff I was looking for. As to custom made, I had never even thought of them, interesting. I was probably going to go with the Gibsons. Now I'll check out his site. Thank again.

glennc

[Robin Nahum]

Happy to help out. Keep us posted.

 

RN

[AlanC]

I can understand not being happy with the sound. I have a few archtops and the '57 Classics sound good in my L5 and ES175 but I hated them in my L4 CES Mahogany. I've changed pickups in a couple of my guitars but I've done it in a way so that I can put the original pickups back in and no one would notice that they were ever removed. I have never cut the top to put a different pickup in.

 

I've tried Seymour Duncan Jazz pickups in the neck with a Seymour Duncan '59 pickup in the bridge position which I thought were just OK. But in the end I still wasn't happy and I've recently put Benedetto Jazz pickups into my L4, ES165 Herb Ellis (which has a floating pickup) and my PRS SJC. I really like the Benedettos (I think they are called A6's?) and I recommend them highly.

[glennc]

I can understand not being happy with the sound. I have a few archtops and the '57 Classics sound good in my L5 and ES175 but I hated them in my L4 CES Mahogany. I've changed pickups in a couple of my guitars but I've done it in a way so that I can put the original pickups back in and no one would notice that they were ever removed. I have never cut the top to put a different pickup in.

 

I've tried Seymour Duncan Jazz pickups in the neck with a Seymour Duncan '59 pickup in the bridge position which I thought were just OK. But in the end I still wasn't happy and I've recently put Benedetto Jazz pickups into my L4, ES165 Herb Ellis (which has a floating pickup) and my PRS SJC. I really like the Benedettos (I think they are called A6's?) and I recommend them highly.

 

Wow, you guys do have an abundance of experience. My head is starting to ache. I do appreciate the experienced recommendations, quite a bit. Just more to think about. Thanks and I'll dive back into it.

glennc

[glennc]

I can understand not being happy with the sound. I have a few archtops and the '57 Classics sound good in my L5 and ES175 but I hated them in my L4 CES Mahogany. I've changed pickups in a couple of my guitars but I've done it in a way so that I can put the original pickups back in and no one would notice that they were ever removed. I have never cut the top to put a different pickup in.

 

I've tried Seymour Duncan Jazz pickups in the neck with a Seymour Duncan '59 pickup in the bridge position which I thought were just OK. But in the end I still wasn't happy and I've recently put Benedetto Jazz pickups into my L4, ES165 Herb Ellis (which has a floating pickup) and my PRS SJC. I really like the Benedettos (I think they are called A6's?) and I recommend them highly.

 

AlanC,

Got to listen to the Bennedettos A6 and they are beautiful, but to jazzy for my personal tasts. I lean more toward the bluesier sound.

Thanks though for the opportunity to let me listen to them. Outstanding.

glennc