Lungimsam Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Needed more relief, but rod won't budge. What should I do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaolee Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I think my Thunderbird is going to have the same problem next time it needs adjustment, so I'm interested in the same information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golem Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Needed more relief, but rod won't budge. What should I do? Depends on what you're really saying .... Won't budge, cuz you've tightened it as far as it goes ? No wonder you have too little relief. Max tightening of the rod is how you flatten a neck ... so just back it off. OR .... Won't budge cuz it's seized, frozen, etc ? Try a lotta WD40, and then carefully try to back it off. Usually, the nut is brass and rod is steel, so seizure from corrosion is nearly impossible. Only if the threads are quite damaged, usually via cross threading, would a nut seize on the threaded rod. If you bought it new, or if you know it used to work OK, and you're sure it's not cross threaded etc, then the "siezure" can be simply the nut againstst the surface behind it, but [fortunately] not a seizure of the threading. To free a nut from the surface behind it, use WD40 and just try rocking it back and forth [rotationally] about 1/16 turn. If the nut is stuck cuz it's max tightened [which would agree with the stated lack of relief] .... and it's REALLY not budging cuzza the pressure involved in keeping the neck so flat, then loosen the strings, lay the neck face down supported only at the heal and near the nut. Now, if your assistant applied moderate pressure to the back of the nek, near the middle, that pressure is doing the same job as a maxed out, too-tight truss rod .... thus your assistant is now unloading some of thepressure in the truss rod .... which makes it safer and easier to unstick the nut from the surface behind it. If you're not cool with the feel of this stuff ["feel" is meant literally], get some experienced help. ` Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golem Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 ` Uhmmnnn .... considering the wording of the thread title, maybe I shoulda started with basics ? A neck with relief is the opposite conditon of a too-flat neck. No offence intended, but unless the title is mis-worded, your take on how to adjust a neck is exactly backwards. To flatten a neck, thus reducing relief, one tightens the truss rod. Relief is not simply "action height" [altho it will affect that, too]. Relief is the slight curve in the neck that is necessary to prevent the string from buzzing against the fret that is one fret sharper than the fret you are fretting. Action height is adjusted at the bridge. Relief must be adjusted via the truss rod. Relief adjustment is normally necessary for only two reasons: changes in seasons, or a change in string tension [different guage or nonstandard tuning]. A third reason is simply dissatisfaction with as-delivered relief [very common]. I cannot imagine any other reasons. ` Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lungimsam Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 I have been trying higher and higher gauges over the years. I am now at 45-109, which is perfect for me. But with the action set my desired height at 8/64-6/64 and some concaveness of neck, I am getting flat notes between 5th and 12th frets. I took off the neck, gently tried to turn the nut to no avail. It will easily turn the opposite direction, though. My auth. serv. guy is on the mend and can't help me right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golem Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I have been trying higher and higher gauges over the years. I am now at 45-109, which is perfect for me. But with the action set my desired height at 8/64-6/64 and some concaveness of neck, I am getting flat notes between 5th and 12th frets. I took off the neck, gently tried to turn the nut to no avail. It will easily turn the opposite direction, though. My auth. serv. guy is on the mend and can't help me right now. OKeedokee .... now THAT is a clear description. Your hardware is intact, not damaged, and you've felt the nut hitting the limit of the threaded section of the rod. You gotta back that nut away from the limit that it has currently run into .... and yet still provide it a means to exert force against the surface behind it. How-to: You can add a washer behind the rod nut. Usually, it requires an unusual washer, cuz the rod diameter is such that a washer that will drop over the rod is generally too large at the outside diameter for the clearance available in the access socket to the rod nut. IOW you need a washer whose outer diameter is not very much bigger than it's inside diameter [meaning, the hole]. A thicker than typical washer is also recommended. Drill a hole in a penny, and grind down the outer diameter to allow it to fit down into the hole. It might be a square sided hole, and so you needn't make the outer shape round .... or it may need to be round. You look at the access socket and you see what shape will work. Pennies are just soft zinc under the copper plating, very easy to shape. When a rod is maxed out like yours is, it's not that the rod can't handle any more load [tension]. It's just that the nut has 'found' the limit of the the threads on the rod and is up against the solid, non-threaded, main section of the rod. The washer [really a spacer in htis application] moves the nut away from the end of the threads, which typically adds about 1.5 more avaialbe turns. No worry about tension. A rod can very well deal with a string set like yours, in terms of ability to handle tension. It's not that your truss rod is at its torsional limit. It's just that there's not quite enuf wood behind it to allow it to do it's job before running out of travel along the threads. The penny can be put in a vise or a strong pliers, and shaped with the simplest handheld power tools, just a drill and grinding wheel or cutting wheel. The result can be uglee, since it will be hidden from view. It just hasta be functional as a spacer. ` Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lungimsam Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 Ahhh, that makes sense to me. I will have to give it a whirl and report back. Nice fix, and I don't have to mod anything. Thanks alot. Ok, dumb question: Do I just unscrew the nut until it comes off the end of the rod, or do I have to back out the whole rod to get a washer on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lungimsam Posted February 19, 2011 Author Share Posted February 19, 2011 Service guy back in action. Says he will back out trod and put in special heating trod to heat and dry out the wood so it won't flex so much. Then replace rod and adjust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrNylon Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 That sounds good man. Go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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