Plek'd guitars

[Hydra26]

Human memory changes over 30 years too. That dull golden patina that makes some things a warm but indistinct part of the "good old days" while exaggerating the details of other things with the sort of bell like (but ultimately possibly inaccurate) clarity you keep until the day you die. Everything we experience is taken within a context. That guitar had such an open tone, that amp was so rich sounding, etc etc etc but compared to everything else that was around at the time.

 

As I get a little bit older, I've begun to appreciate how fuzzy, distorted and sometimes just plain wrong my memories can be. So I think that the point about a vintage reissue something sounding as good or better than the original when the original was new is quite possible and a very good point, although I think there's the caveat that there are sooooooooo many more product s on the market today, there are a LOT of other sounds competing with our consciousness to define the everything else when we want to say something sound sbetter or different than everything else.

[Andy R]

Human memory changes over 30 years too. That dull golden patina that makes some things a warm but indistinct part of the "good old days" while exaggerating the details of other things with the sort of bell like (but ultimately possibly inaccurate) clarity you keep until the day you die. Everything we experience is taken within a context. That guitar had such an open tone, that amp was so rich sounding, etc etc etc but compared to everything else that was around at the time.

 

As I get a little bit older, I've begun to appreciate how fuzzy, distorted and sometimes just plain wrong my memories can be. So I think that the point about a vintage reissue something sounding as good or better than the original when the original was new is quite possible and a very good point, although I think there's the caveat that there are sooooooooo many more product s on the market today, there are a LOT of other sounds competing with our consciousness to define the everything else when we want to say something sound sbetter or different than everything else.

 

Good points and our hearing changes over time as well as our taste and add in a bit of nostalgia.... Recording techniques and musical styles... It's hard to tell.

[stein]

Human memory changes over 30 years too. That dull golden patina that makes some things a warm but indistinct part of the "good old days" while exaggerating the details of other things with the sort of bell like (but ultimately possibly inaccurate) clarity you keep until the day you die. Everything we experience is taken within a context. That guitar had such an open tone, that amp was so rich sounding, etc etc etc but compared to everything else that was around at the time.

 

As I get a little bit older, I've begun to appreciate how fuzzy, distorted and sometimes just plain wrong my memories can be. So I think that the point about a vintage reissue something sounding as good or better than the original when the original was new is quite possible and a very good point, although I think there's the caveat that there are sooooooooo many more product s on the market today, there are a LOT of other sounds competing with our consciousness to define the everything else when we want to say something sound sbetter or different than everything else.

I can personally attest to that. I have discovered that almost every recording I stumble across of myself, it was much better in my mind than when I hear it again. Same goes for the few live performance I have heard. But this could be evidence of an inflated ego as much.

 

And I can not say that it has never happened with certain equipment before as well.

[stein]

SO..adressing the Marshalls and the clones: what was different about the jtm clone and the reissue that was the result of your experience/knowledge that found it's way into the build? And the differences in the other heads that make then sound different, or perhaps better than each other, what do you attribute that too and what of that is guesswork or experience and what do you know makes a difference for the better?

 

I have little experience with the Marshall world. My jcm 800 really served as an education to give me the impression that the Marshall, and it's curcuit, was a very "pure" amp and therefore reactive to guitars, speakers, tubes, ect. The 2150 was compltely different, and I have to say I was not often able to use these what I would call "proper" the way a Marshall man would know.

 

Regarding the wood, here agian, I am not old enough to know for sure, but what I get the impression of what was true is that early on, wood was very available and there was a different standard as to the aging or drying of wood before it was put into use. It does take years for it to season, and of corse this has an effect.

 

One thing I am aware of, is that in any given conducter, copper wire, caps, etc. there is a period of at least 40 hours before it sounds the best. When "breaking in" high end stereo equipment, this is easily observed. It is common in a lot of cases that a particularly good component or set of cables sounds no better than an average one before it has had a continueous signal put through it. It is easier to onberve it these conditions, by just leaving it on for 40 hours and coming back and hearing a difference. With high end speakers, it is still done by putting them out of phase and facing them to each other and letting them play for hours. In the audiophile community, this for speakers is attributed as much if not more to the break in of the wiring as it is the cone of the speakers loosening up.

 

Of corse, this is harder to achieve in a guitar amp. Getting that amout of play on an amp at volume would take months, even years. I am quite convinced this has something to do with amps being played more as being the better sounding amps. But, here again, this is difficult to quantify of convince others of.

 

but, more so, referring back to the first paragraph, what of your experience and expertice tell you is what a good marshall sound is and what needs to happen to achieve it? How much is age, and how much is knowledge of how they were built as opposed to what is built now that many miss?

[LarryUK]

All I remember of the amp is that it was an original 50 with the four inputs. It was a great sound. A bit like the early EVH sound. I saw Ronnie Montrose in those days (80's). he sounded like it too. I suppose it's just a flat out Marshal/Les Paul sound.

[Andy R]

SO..adressing the Marshalls and the clones: what was different about the jtm clone and the reissue that was the result of your experience/knowledge that found it's way into the build? And the differences in the other heads that make then sound different, or perhaps better than each other, what do you attribute that too and what of that is guesswork or experience and what do you know makes a difference for the better?

 

I have little experience with the Marshall world. My jcm 800 really served as an education to give me the impression that the Marshall, and it's curcuit, was a very "pure" amp and therefore reactive to guitars, speakers, tubes, ect. The 2150 was compltely different, and I have to say I was not often able to use these what I would call "proper" the way a Marshall man would know.

 

Regarding the wood, here agian, I am not old enough to know for sure, but what I get the impression of what was true is that early on, wood was very available and there was a different standard as to the aging or drying of wood before it was put into use. It does take years for it to season, and of corse this has an effect.

 

One thing I am aware of, is that in any given conducter, copper wire, caps, etc. there is a period of at least 40 hours before it sounds the best. When "breaking in" high end stereo equipment, this is easily observed. It is common in a lot of cases that a particularly good component or set of cables sounds no better than an average one before it has had a continueous signal put through it. It is easier to onberve it these conditions, by just leaving it on for 40 hours and coming back and hearing a difference. With high end speakers, it is still done by putting them out of phase and facing them to each other and letting them play for hours. In the audiophile community, this for speakers is attributed as much if not more to the break in of the wiring as it is the cone of the speakers loosening up.

 

Of corse, this is harder to achieve in a guitar amp. Getting that amout of play on an amp at volume would take months, even years. I am quite convinced this has something to do with amps being played more as being the better sounding amps. But, here again, this is difficult to quantify of convince others of.

 

but, more so, referring back to the first paragraph, what of your experience and expertice tell you is what a good marshall sound is and what needs to happen to achieve it? How much is age, and how much is knowledge of how they were built as opposed to what is built now that many miss?

 

 

Well the JTM 45 is a bit of a different animal than the typical 1959, 1987, 2203, 2204 circuits in that it has a Tube Rectifier and is using KT88's. Concerning my JTM 45 build the only thing I replaced was some caps with NOS Phillips Mustards other than that it was out of the box and built to spec... ( The build is on here somewhere) I have compared the 73's and haven't found any smoking gun but one is a lot brighter than the other best guess would be some varience in the OT or some component drift somewhere... The Re-issue 50 just sounds sterile... Going to replace the PCB board with a PTP maybe transformers and see where it ends up... Concerning what a good Marshall sound is to me purely opinion. They are definitely not built the same anymore and I don't think they even use chokes on the newer models. To me it is how/when it starts to break up, how it reacts and responds dynamically to pick attack, how harmonic it sounds etc.... It's what my ears and hands tell me... Same with a guitar...

[Guest rogerb]

The custom shop guitars were the first to be plek'd. All custom shop and USA plant guitars are plek'd.

[Guest FarnsBarns]

The custom shop guitars were the first to be plek'd. All custom shop and USA plant guitars are plek'd.

 

Pretty sure you are wrong there, my reliable information is that they started using the OldLPstd on the USA models first because it was quicker. Found it to be extremely good do set the custom shop up with a OldLPstd machine too.

[Guest FarnsBarns]

The custom shop guitars were the first to be plek'd. All custom shop and USA plant guitars are plek'd.

 

Pretty sure you are wrong there, my reliable information is that they started using the Plek machine on the USA models first because it was quicker. Found it to be extremely good so set the custom shop up with a Plek machine too.