Es-335 Bridge positioning

[umatic]

Hey y'all :)

 

Just wondering if I could impose on your expertise here. I purchased an unused Nov 2010 ES-335 from the collection of a reputable seller on ebay at an excellent price. I'm 100% sure it's genuine - all warranty cards, serial numbers, packaging etc add up.

 

Took it to a tech here in London for a set-up and he informed me the bridge was incorrectly positioned by about 1-2mm. Not a huge deal I guess, but it meant that to drop the action he needed to tweak it a fair bit, and I'm really going to have to replace the saddles in the long run.

 

So my question - a Custom Shop instrument that would normally sell for £2000, should be 100% perfect right? Do you guys think Gibson have a certain level of inaccuracy they'll tolerate in the production process? Never having owned a Gibson before, maybe it's not unusual? I assumed they didn't let any "B-stock" out of the factory onto the market.....

 

I'm not stressing about this particularly, just interested

 

Thanks a million!

[CR9]

Congrats on the new 335. Sorry to hear that you may need to replace the bridge or saddles. Did you contact the eBay seller about the issue? Part of the issue with buying from someone on eBay is that you lose the Gibson warranty on the guitar. The seller may warranty it though. An authorized dealer would be able to work with you on this. Can you safely say that the tech is able to accurately tell it is off 1-2mm from factory specs? Yes there is some tolerance in any guitar. What do you mean by "the bridge was incorrectly positioned by about 1-2mm? The studs that are mounted into the body are measured far more accurately than the tech can measure. If you mean that the strings are off in the side to side measurements, then the saddles may be cut slightly off. Contact the seller and see if they will replace the saddles for you. In the over all big picture of things, saddles are cheap when you have found a guitar you love. The "B-stock" guitars either get fixed if it is a minor and easy fix. The rest get run through a band saw several times and basically made unrepairable.

[adius]

The rest get run through a band saw several times and basically made unrepairable.

 

The image that evoked generated a bit of a shudder. I understand it, but man that's an ugly thought.

[umatic]

That's incredibly helpful, thank you. I'm just basing this on the tech's observations. Yes, its possible to see the strings are about 1-2mm off-centre in the saddles. I've attached a pic of how it looked when I purchased it. Does that sort of correlate with what you advised? The tech suggested replacing the saddles. He's done a temporary fix by rotating a couple of them 180 degrees, and making new grooves in helping to lower the action while the new saddles are on order. As you say, they're cheap so I'm not that bothered. The result is actually fine.

 

Like I said I'm not too stressed as it's a fantastic guitar and it plays beautifully.

 

Thanks for your help!

[j45nick]

This is a truly odd setup.

 

I just pulled out my 2009 Nashville '59 Historic ES 335, and all of the saddles are cut dead center. The spacing on the saddles should be virtually identical to the string spacing at the tailpiece. The only variables are the slight angle of the bridge relative to the string plane, and the fact that the bridge is slightly forward of the tailpiece, so that the strings at the bridge are marginally (almost impossible to measure with a simple steel ruler) closer together.

 

The strings should come straight over the saddles, with no sideways pushing of the strings by the saddle notch position.

 

It is not physically possible for the strings to be absolutely dead center over the pickup poles at both pickup positions, as the pole spacing is identical on both the bridge and the neck pickups, while the strings are closer together over the neck pickup than they are at the bridge pickup.

 

String spacing at the tailpiece ( string center-to-center, not string outside-to-outside) is about 51.5 mm, and almost immeasurably less at the bridge itself. String spacing at the bridge pickup is about 50.5 mm, and about 47.5 mm at the neck pickup.

 

Pole spacing on both pickups is about 49.5mm, so you can see that it is impossible for all the strings to be centered over all the poles on the pickups. In addition, the springs on the pickup overall height adjustment screws leave a little "wobble" in the absolute positioning of the pickups.

 

In fact, if you look very carefully on even a perfectly set-up guitar, you'll find that only a few of the strings run dead-center over the poles. If individual strings don't have the volume/sound you expect, tweak the height of the pole screws. That's what they are there for.

[umatic]

i should re-iterate that the pic in the post above is of how the guitar come out of the factory. The tech who has subsequently done a new set-up flagged-up the problems i mentioned. honestly, i'm pretty confused now....

 

here's a couple of pics of the temporary set-up the tech has done while he waits for the new saddles to show up. You can see where he's flipped the saddle on the A-string 180 degrees and re-cut it.

 

Do you think it was originally just a freaky set-up at the factory, or is there, in fact, a problem with the bridge positioning?

 

Thanks so much for your help guys!

[j45nick]

i should re-iterate that the pic in the post above is of how the guitar come out of the factory. The tech who has subsequently done a new set-up flagged-up the problems i mentioned. honestly, i'm pretty confused now....

 

here's a couple of pics of the temporary set-up the tech has done while he waits for the new saddles to show up. You can see where he's flipped the saddle on the A-string 180 degrees and re-cut it.

 

Do you think it was originally just a freaky set-up at the factory, or is there, in fact, a problem with the bridge position?

 

Thanks so much for your help guys!

 

I really don't think it's possible to tell without seeing the guitar in person. The photos aren't taken from the same angle or position for starters, and the lens will distort things somewhat when you are that close-up. If it were mine, I'd begin by slacking the strings slightly and pulling them out of the saddle slots, then re-tension them to less than full tension, and pop them vertically, like you would a string line.(Not sure that would actually work, but you understand what we're trying to do here.) That would tell you where the strings want to lie naturally, which is what you want. if the strings all fall off to the same side of the saddle centerlines, you may have a problem with either the bridge positioning, or the tailpiece positioning.

 

You may need to start from scratch with a new, unslotted set of saddles, and try to determine the "natural" saddle notch position. I assume that's what your tech will do. In any case, do not expect the strings and pole pieces to all line up. What you should not see is a consistent line of offset in the same direction, particularly if there is also an offset bias in the string position relative to the edge of the fingerboard. Remember, it's the center of the strings you need to look at. Because of the big difference in string diameters from low to high, it isn't always easy to see this properly.

[badbluesplayer]

Sounds like the tech tried to intonate the guitar and had to flip the saddle for the a-string to get it to intonate. That's probably why he says the bridge is off. He probably thinks it would intonate better if the bridge had originally been mounted a little closer to the neck. It's funny how the guitar used to be set up with the saddles closer to the stop bar, like maybe it had bigger strings on it. Hmmm. What size strings do you have on it now?

 

Anyway, that's not unusual.

 

On a guitar with an ABR-1 bridge, they don't always notch the saddles in the center. Once they get the guitar strung up, they notch the saddles in whatever position makes they strings, neck and pickups all line up visually as well as possible while maintaining the correct string spacing at the bridge. Sometimes, they're all notched one way, sometimes another. The side to side play allows them enough tolerance so that if the neck, pickup cavities and bridge don't all line up it will still work out. Seems like the semihollow bodies just aren't made as exact as the solid bodies.

 

Sometimes you have to swap a saddle around to take advantage of the full intonation range. That's pretty normal to get your final setup. If you can't adjust the saddle far enough without it bottoming out against the bridge, then you have a problem. You'd have to buy a replacement bridge with a wider intonation range or use heavier strings.

 

I'm interested to know how it works out for you.

[CR9]

All of the above info. is good. Start with new, uncut saddles and go from there. Yours does not look correctly cut but a wide angle photo will distort the image too much and only looking at the guitar in person will tell. I do think your bridge is not cut correctly but the bridge is probably mounted correctly. The tech did a good job of a temporary fix. Do not expect the strings to be exactly over the poles but probably closer than your original photo.

[stein]

It is very common to have to flip saddles on the ABR bridge and the TOM bridge of Gibsons-it doesn't mean that the guitar is built wrong.

 

If you look at actual vintage Gibsons or pics of them, you will probably find it is more common than not.

 

Also, where the strings end up as far as center could be as much a matter of taste of preference as it is to make it accurate. It is true that not all will end up in the center to get it right, but also, some may prefer or think a wider spacing is more "correct" than a slightly narrower spacing.

 

Getting a little deeper into the subject, it is not really necessary to replace the saddles because you have extra grooves, but replacing them is no big deal either. Cutting in the slot for the strings does require a little hand work and quality, as if it isn't cut smooth, you will get strings breaking, but also, as you are seeing, string spacing. While saddles usually last a lifetime, the do get some wear as well from the strings cutting into them.

 

SO.. really what matters and the only thing that matters is you have the proper intonation, good spacing, even action and smooth cuts so the strings don't break. If you have achieved that, it is correct.

[umatic]

really incredible advice and information from everyone. thanks a million!

 

have a great weekend guys :)

[bleggoe]

Thanks for this. I too have a 335 (satin) from Nov 2010 (purchased from reputable dealer with full paperwork etc.) and guess what? - it too has off-set grooves in the saddles such that the high e is much closer to the edge of the neck than the low e string. The action was way too high for me when I bought the guitar, but I trusted the dealer when he said to play it for a few weeks and then, if I wished, he could set up the action. In the event, he eventually merely adjusted the truss rod (his words); the action was not significantly improved and perhaps more importantly, a marked muting of the high-e and -b strings when played open ( a duff nut cut?) was not even touched, let alone resolved. I then checked two other new 335's in nearby stores and they too had the offset saddle cut etc.

I have found that guitar tone improved radically by re-setting strings outside their grooves (see attachment pic) which suggests that bridge cut as well as nut cut is suspect. The solution is temporary as there are other issuesto address. I've been checking here and elsewhere on the web about set up specs and find that when I set the prescribed relief for the neck at the low-e string, there is no relief at the high-e string ! OK, this suggests it may e.g. need fret work if the neck is 'out', but - and here it's getting weird - in trying to adjust the action by way of the two bridge adjustment nuts, I find that lowering the low-e side caused fret buzz of the -b & hi-e strings! Raising the hi-e side of the bridgeto try to compensate only made the problem worse, but lowereing the hi-e side helped ( got rid of the buzz)!!!. What's going on? Is the neck warped? Are the frets warped?, or is there some new-fangled geometry to the beveling (radius)of the neck giving rise to this effect??

I'm going to take my guitar to a reputable luthier as soon as I can identify one in nw europe to see if the issues with this guitar can be resolved. Frankly, I'd consider dumping this guitar were it not for it's sublime tone

(at least to my ears) when not played with open strings. To be honest, I have an Indonesian Epi Dot which, in all respects other than tone and street cred, puts this 335 to shame. Next time (if there is one) I'll not buy a 335 or similar until I'm happy with it.

[locko]

I take it these saddles are the same on the es 339. Do any of the uk readers know where i can obtain these uncut saddles. Phil

[j45nick]

Thanks for this. I too have a 335 (satin) from Nov 2010 (purchased from reputable dealer with full paperwork etc.) and guess what? - it too has off-set grooves in the saddles such that the high e is much closer to the edge of the neck than the low e string. The action was way too high for me when I bought the guitar, but I trusted the dealer when he said to play it for a few weeks and then, if I wished, he could set up the action. In the event, he eventually merely adjusted the truss rod (his words); the action was not significantly improved and perhaps more importantly, a marked muting of the high-e and -b strings when played open ( a duff nut cut?) was not even touched, let alone resolved. I then checked two other new 335's in nearby stores and they too had the offset saddle cut etc.

I have found that guitar tone improved radically by re-setting strings outside their grooves (see attachment pic) which suggests that bridge cut as well as nut cut is suspect. The solution is temporary as there are other issuesto address. I've been checking here and elsewhere on the web about set up specs and find that when I set the prescribed relief for the neck at the low-e string, there is no relief at the high-e string ! OK, this suggests it may e.g. need fret work if the neck is 'out', but - and here it's getting weird - in trying to adjust the action by way of the two bridge adjustment nuts, I find that lowering the low-e side caused fret buzz of the -b & hi-e strings! Raising the hi-e side of the bridgeto try to compensate only made the problem worse, but lowereing the hi-e side helped ( got rid of the buzz)!!!. What's going on? Is the neck warped? Are the frets warped?, or is there some new-fangled geometry to the beveling (radius)of the neck giving rise to this effect??

I'm going to take my guitar to a reputable luthier as soon as I can identify one in nw europe to see if the issues with this guitar can be resolved. Frankly, I'd consider dumping this guitar were it not for it's sublime tone

(at least to my ears) when not played with open strings. To be honest, I have an Indonesian Epi Dot which, in all respects other than tone and street cred, puts this 335 to shame. Next time (if there is one) I'll not buy a 335 or similar until I'm happy with it.

 

If you like the tone of the guitar, spend some time trying to get the setup right, including taking it to someone who knows what he's doing. There are a lot of variables in the ES 335 setup, and you have a lot of different ways of manipulating it, including the trussrod, the saddles (including both intonation and string position), bridge height, bridge cant angle, pickup height, and pickup pole adjustment. Change one thing, and everything changes, so you have to work in the proper sequence, and you really have to know what you are doing. The average music store guitar tech may not be the right guy to do this. Ask working musicians in your area who their guitar tech is.

 

Ironically, a really good tech isn't going to charge you much more than a hacker, so this one isn't about saving money.

 

I don't pretend to be an expert in this, but if you want to learn how to do it yourself, there are very good resources available for learning how to set up electric and acoustic guitars, including the "Learn and Master Guitar" setup and maintenance DVD series by Greg Voros.

[bleggoe]

If you like the tone of the guitar, spend some time trying to get the setup right, including taking it to someone who knows what he's doing. There are a lot of variables in the ES 335 setup, and you have a lot of different ways of manipulating it, including the trussrod, the saddles (including both intonation and string position), bridge height, bridge cant angle, pickup height, and pickup pole adjustment. Change one thing, and everything changes, so you have to work in the proper sequence, and you really have to know what you are doing. The average music store guitar tech may not be the right guy to do this. Ask working musicians in your area who their guitar tech is.

 

Ironically, a really good tech isn't going to charge you much more than a hacker, so this one isn't about saving money.

 

I don't pretend to be an expert in this, but if you want to learn how to do it yourself, there are very good resources available for learning how to set up electric and acoustic guitars, including the "Learn and Master Guitar" setup and maintenance DVD series by Greg Voros.

 

:::::::Many thanks for the good advice. It is much appreciated. I have now i.d.'d a luthier/guitar builder in the UK who has an excellent reputation from local musicians (my nephew being one of them), so I'll be seeing if he can help. If not, there are probably others within reach. I just need to do my homework I guess. Though I'm an engineer by education/background, I'd rather put this in the hands of an expert. My initial 'at home' attempts at adjustment were borne out of frustration and, as far as I know, a lack of local expertise. I'l be singing high and long if this gets sorted. Cheers !

[j45nick]

I'm going to take my guitar to a reputable luthier as soon as I can identify one in nw europe to see if the issues with this guitar can be resolved. Frankly, I'd consider dumping this guitar were it not for it's sublime tone

(at least to my ears) when not played with open strings. To be honest, I have an Indonesian Epi Dot which, in all respects other than tone and street cred, puts this 335 to shame. Next time (if there is one) I'll not buy a 335 or similar until I'm happy with it.

 

Interestingly, the string spacing over the bridge pickup looks almost perfect on the large photo. It appears that the D and G strings pretty much pass right over the center of the pole screws on the bridge pickup, and that both the treble and bass strings gradually shift toward the outside of the centerline on the other four pole screws, which are the correct string positions given the string spacing at the bridge vs. the pole spacing at the bridge pickup.

 

Since you are an engineer, I don't have to tell you how that should change as the strings get closer together over the neck pickup.

 

If everything is lined up perfectly (tailpiece, bridge, pickups, neck, nut) you should find this symmetry all the way down the neck. For better or worse, however, these are assemblies of a whole bunch of separate wood and metal components, and it is possible that the technician assembling the guitar has tried to find the closest setup in an imperfect world to this ideal alignment of separate parts.

 

Take it to a respected tech, and he'll do a set-up as close to "right" as he can. Maybe I got lucky on my Nashville ES 335, but things line up reasonably symmetrically up and down the neck with the saddles notched dead-center.

[umatic]

If it's any help, I took mine to Jack on Denmark Street, here in London. He has a workshop above Rockers and is, IMHO an excellent tech. He actually flagged up the original problems with my 335, did the quick fix and will be finishing the work when the new saddles show-up. Let me know if you need contact details. Funnily enough, he mentioned that the week before he'd had a guy come in with a new 335 (eBay purchase), experiencing the exact same problem, only much worse. Maybe that's why he suspected something might not have been 100% accurate during the factory assembly.

 

I should also add that the tone of this thing is quite incredible, so I'm willing to persevere....

[badbluesplayer]

Thanks for this. I too have a 335 (satin) from Nov 2010 (purchased from reputable dealer with full paperwork etc.) and guess what? - it too has off-set grooves in the saddles such that the high e is much closer to the edge of the neck than the low e string. The action was way too high for me when I bought the guitar, but I trusted the dealer when he said to play it for a few weeks and then, if I wished, he could set up the action. In the event, he eventually merely adjusted the truss rod (his words); the action was not significantly improved and perhaps more importantly, a marked muting of the high-e and -b strings when played open ( a duff nut cut?) was not even touched, let alone resolved. I then checked two other new 335's in nearby stores and they too had the offset saddle cut etc.

I have found that guitar tone improved radically by re-setting strings outside their grooves (see attachment pic) which suggests that bridge cut as well as nut cut is suspect. The solution is temporary as there are other issuesto address. I've been checking here and elsewhere on the web about set up specs and find that when I set the prescribed relief for the neck at the low-e string, there is no relief at the high-e string ! OK, this suggests it may e.g. need fret work if the neck is 'out', but - and here it's getting weird - in trying to adjust the action by way of the two bridge adjustment nuts, I find that lowering the low-e side caused fret buzz of the -b & hi-e strings! Raising the hi-e side of the bridgeto try to compensate only made the problem worse, but lowereing the hi-e side helped ( got rid of the buzz)!!!. What's going on? Is the neck warped? Are the frets warped?, or is there some new-fangled geometry to the beveling (radius)of the neck giving rise to this effect??

I'm going to take my guitar to a reputable luthier as soon as I can identify one in nw europe to see if the issues with this guitar can be resolved. Frankly, I'd consider dumping this guitar were it not for it's sublime tone

(at least to my ears) when not played with open strings. To be honest, I have an Indonesian Epi Dot which, in all respects other than tone and street cred, puts this 335 to shame. Next time (if there is one) I'll not buy a 335 or similar until I'm happy with it.

 

I didn't realize that your Satin 335 has a Nashville style bridge. I never saw a 335 with a Nashville bridge. Usually those bridges use the precut saddles that are cut right in the middle.

 

Your guitar is a good example of how everything doesn't always line up. If I was going to cut the saddles, I would have done it just like the factory did it. It looks like they lined up the strings with the pickup poles as closely as possible rather than try to line up the strings with the neck. I'm more of a "line it up with the pickups" guy, rather than a "line it up with the neck" guy.

 

If the relief is different on the high e vs. the low e, I'll try to get the proper relief on one side and have it flat on the other side. I have a Les Paul that's like that - no relief on the high side and factory relief on the low side - works fine on my LP. Having no relief is o.k., as long as the action is at the factory setting, and not too low. If the relief is between the factory spec and flat, there shouldn't be any buzzing, as long as the action is not too low. Once you get the action down below the factory setting, it's becomes difficult to stop any buzzing. I would leave the neck relief right where it is and then adjust the action to factory spec and if it doesn't buzz, you're good to go.

 

Once somebody starts filing down frets, there's no going back, so it's good to make sure that you do everything you can to get the guitar set up properly before you let somebody start "fixing" it.

[badbluesplayer]

I take it these saddles are the same on the es 339. Do any of the uk readers know where i can obtain these uncut saddles. Phil

 

The saddles for the 339 are ABR-1 style uncut saddles. What you need are Gibson PRBS-010 ABR-1 Replacement Chrome Bridge Saddles. I don't know where you can get them in the UK.

[bleggoe]

That's an interesting observation about the bridge type on the satin cherry es 335. I noted the following comments elswhere on the differences between the Nashville and the ABR-1:

"The Nashville usually has the intonation screws facing toward the butt of the guitar, is wider than the abr-1, has metal inserts/anchors which sit in the body as opposed to a stud that screws directly into the wood. Nashville bridge studs also have the thumbwheel cast into the stud that is the stud thumbwheel is one peice wheras the abr-1 has a seperate stud/thumbwheel." There is more discussion of the relative merits of each at: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/index.php/t-218883.html.

 

I certainly appreciate all the comments and helpful advice guys.(The observation offerred above re. filing frets is also especially well taken - many thanks). I now have a few techs i.d 'd and will be contacting them in a week or so to see if they can help. I'll report back with findings and results.

However, assuming the neck issue can be sufficiently sorted, I still have issues with open hi-E and B strings sounding muted (as this muting is not evident once fretted, I assume this is a nut-groove issue). Anyone out there with experience of this type of issue? Also, any thoughts about a general lowering of the nut height (such that distance from string to top of first fret is reduced). I've found that using a capo between the nut and the first fret lowers and improves the action with no introduction of buzzing. Nut lowering is a tantalising thought, but I'd be happy to read comments / experiences etc. before going further with it.

 

And yes, I am a beginner, so thanks for your patience.

[j45nick]

However, assuming the neck issue can be sufficiently sorted, I still have issues with open hi-E and B strings sounding muted (as this muting is not evident once fretted, I assume this is a nut-groove issue). Anyone out there with experience of this type of issue? Also, any thoughts about a general lowering of the nut height (such that distance from string to top of first fret is reduced). I've found that using a capo between the nut and the first fret lowers and improves the action with no introduction of buzzing. Nut lowering is a tantalising thought, but I'd be happy to read comments / experiences etc. before going further with it.

 

And yes, I am a beginner, so thanks for your patience.

 

Not sure why these strings would sound muted. Usually, those are the two most resonant strings. Are they sitting in the grooves properly? If the string height at the nut needs to be altered, that would probably be just about the very list item on the setup list, unless there is an obvious manufacturing defect.

 

Rule number one: "When correcting a problem, do not change things that are not easily reversed until all reversible alterations or adjustments have been tried, unless the problem is obvious and can be corrected in no other way."

 

This is J-45 Nick's rule, learned the hard way!

[bleggoe]

Not sure why these strings would sound muted. Usually, those are the two most resonant strings. Are they sitting in the grooves properly? If the string height at the nut needs to be altered, that would probably be just about the very list item on the setup list, unless there is an obvious manufacturing defect.

 

Rule number one: "When correcting a problem, do not change things that are not easily reversed until all reversible alterations or adjustments have been tried, unless the problem is obvious and can be corrected in no other way."

 

This is J-45 Nick's rule, learned the hard way!

 

Thanks J-45 Nick. Here's the thing about the muted strings ( and it's the case for each of the various string brands I've tried on this guitar):

1) The (slight, but nonetheless discernable) muting of the high-e string is only present when the string is plucked 'open' i.e. playing the open 'e' note. Fretting the string to produce a higher note - or even using a capo before the first fret - effectually removes the muting.

2) the muting also disappears when the string is moved out of it's groove on the bridge saddle and allowed to simply rest on the uncut saddle ridge (see my photo posted earlier in the thread) - even when played 'open'. I Have not attempted to try to re-locate the string outside its groove in the nut.

3) The effect was present prior to, and subsequent to the application of modest quantities of commercial nut lubricant to both the nut and subsequenly the brige saddle grooves.

4) much the same story for the b string except that some brands have exhibited the muting effect, albeit less so than for the e-string, while other brands, including the otherwise rather nice sounding snake oil vintage LH 's I'm currently using, have a slight, peculiar, almost 'sitar-like' resonating

sound when plucked 'open'. As with the e--string, this disappears upon fretting the string.

To my mind, this points very much at the nut grooves as candidates for the source of the effect(s). The tuners seem quite ok, but with some string brands esp. Gibson 'Humbuckers', tuning stability was poor despite checking string windings on the tuners, and application of lubricant to the nut groove.

Again, this makes me suspect the nut groove cut - possibly its orientation (?) I don't know how these things are put together, but I've been wondering whether the nut grooves are cut prior to the bridge saddle grooves. If so ( and I stress that I don't know if this is the case), and the saddle grooves are cut to align with pickup poles rather than neck (see earlierl posts in this thread), then perhaps it's possible that the nut groove is misaligned along its length suficient to give rise to the muting etc and possible string sticking effects. I may be quite wrong, but it's something I intend to look at a.s.a.p. e.g. using a loupe lens to inspect the nut grooves..

Bottom Line: If the luthier/techs in contacting in the UK can sort this guitar, then great, otherwise I'll probably try to cut my losses. Pity if I do, but this guitar cost me a lot of money and as it stands, I'm not sufficiently happy with it.

[j45nick]

This one is outside my experience, so I won't get in deeper over my head than I already am. I hope you find a good tech that can help you out on this one. It's a pity. I have two ES 335's (Nashville '59 Historic, 1968 ES 335-12) and they are really nice instruments. Different from each other, of course, but each has a wonderful sound and unique voice.

 

I just checked my Nashville '59, and it certainly does not have this "muted string" problem. My other ES 335 is in the shop for a neck re-set, so I can't check it, but I think I would have noticed something like this.

[sok66]

This is not an unusual state of affairs on new Gibsons with an ABR-1, and it can relate to the neck to body alignment, slight variations in the pickup mounting, etc. Your tech did a reasonable job of centering the strings over the bridge pickup, but there's more to it than that and I can't see other factors I'd take into consideration. I usually try to find the best compromise between the way the strings ay across the fingerboard, and their alignment over the two pickups. In general, that means having them slightly wide of center on the bridge pickup, and that looks like what he did.

 

I have no idea why this couldn't be done right in production, but my guess is the time factor pressing on the builder(s) causes them to say "good enough...Next!". I have an '06 '59 RI that I bought from MF's, it had been their website photo guitar fro the '59 RI VOS. The strings were aligned exactly as yours, only it was worse. The bridge studs were misaligned and the bridge was tipping so far forward it couldn't be intonated. I had to have a local luthier plug the holes & redrill them. The nut was so badly cut I had to remove it and make a new one. I put all new saddles in the bridge and cut them much as your tech did yours. It now plays and sounds great, but I must say it was very upsetting to say the least to have to do this in order to get the thing playable. All this and a $5k+ price point? I think not!

[j45nick]

This is not an unusual state of affairs on new Gibsons with an ABR-1, and it can relate to the neck to body alignment, slight variations in the pickup mounting, etc. Your tech did a reasonable job of centering the strings over the bridge pickup, but there's more to it than that and I can't see other factors I'd take into consideration. I usually try to find the best compromise between the way the strings ay across the fingerboard, and their alignment over the two pickups. In general, that means having them slightly wide of center on the bridge pickup, and that looks like what he did.

 

I have no idea why this couldn't be done right in production, but my guess is the time factor pressing on the builder(s) causes them to say "good enough...Next!". I have an '06 '59 RI that I bought from MF's, it had been their website photo guitar fro the '59 RI VOS. The strings were aligned exactly as yours, only it was worse. The bridge studs were misaligned and the bridge was tipping so far forward it couldn't be intonated. I had to have a local luthier plug the holes & redrill them. The nut was so badly cut I had to remove it and make a new one. I put all new saddles in the bridge and cut them much as your tech did yours. It now plays and sounds great, but I must say it was very upsetting to say the least to have to do this in order to get the thing playable. All this and a $5k+ price point? I think not!

I would be very interested to hear other comments on this. My only "modern" Gibson ES 335 is from the Nashville shop (what used to be called the "Art and Historic Shop", I believe), not the Memphis shop where all these ES 335s with the poor factory setups seem to originate. Any Nashville Historics out there with similar problems, or is this a Gibson Memphis "Custom Shop" issue? "Nashville" labels only, please.

 

Frankly, I had only heard rumors about mediocre ES 335s from the Memphis shop, but it was enough to steer me to a Nashville guitar, despite the $1000+ price differential.