supernova1969a Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I have recently squires a 36 Trojan. The FON from what I can read is. 12B40. With a red 7 underneath it Any idea what the red 7 means? Underneath the fon#. Thanks fellow Gibson friends! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova1969a Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 Ment to say aquired not squires. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Can you post some pictures of the whole guitar as well as the neck block? CONGRATS on the Trojan! Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-1854Me Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I have recently squires a 36 Trojan. The FON from what I can read is. 12B40. With a red 7 underneath it Any idea what the red 7 means? Underneath the fon#. Thanks fellow Gibson friends! I think that the "7" would denote that this was the 7th guitar in that particular batch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Yes, I'm going to have to say congratulations on that, indeed. Whenever a Gibson Trojan finds a new home, it's big news. So... you're familiar with the old guitar forum saw... "If there are no pictures... (it didn't happen !)" the red 7 (in pencil?) is the production number (for that day? {calling Mr. Rar for a fact check}) in that batch pertaining to it's FON (even though the particular alphanumeric you've given doesn't sound quite right). I think we'd all love to hear the story on how that one happened to end up in your living room. Again, HNVGD congratulations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I think that the "7" would denote that this was the 7th guitar in that particular batch. +1 That FON is a puzzler! I took a quick through Spann's Guide, and didn't see a recorded Jumbo/J-35 FON that.resembles "12B40". I'd love to see a photo of the neck block, and some other photos of the guitar. -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 PICTURES PLEASE!!!!! and congrats! and maybe a soundbite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarstrummer Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 According to the "Blue Book of Acoustic Guitars", sixth edition "F O Ns for the years 1935-1941 usually consisted of the batch number, a letter for the year and the instrument number. Examples are as follows: 722 A 23 465 D 58 863 E 02. Code Letter and Year A 1935 B 1936 C 1937 D 1938 E 1939 F 1940 G 1941" If that's the case, it would seem like your guitar was in batch 12, instrument number 40 and it was made in 1936. There was no mention as to what the red "7" could mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 ... it would seem like your guitar was in batch 12, instrument number 40 and it was made in 1936. ... This interpretation seems very unlikely to me, given current best guesses on production dates. Batch 12B would be from very early in the year, and the Trojan/J-35 didn't go into production until October, and current thought seems to be that the Trojan became the J-35 no later than December. The earliest batch in the shipping records is 960B, and this batch is explicitly labeled "Trojan". 960B and 961B are the only two batch numbers for Trojans that have shown up in the J-35 registry. (Again, according to the registry, 78C -- the first batch in 1937 shown in the shipping records -- definitely is not a Trojan.) There were at least 5 more batches of J-35s in 1936 -- 1023B, 1028B, 1032B, 1042B, and 1078B -- and I don't know which of these are Trojans and which are J-35s proper. (Maybe no one knows for all five at this point.) I suspect that at least some are Trojans, though, because I recall Willi Henkes remarking that Trojans are "much less rare" than George Gruhn's estimate of 39 suggested, because that estimate was based on the assumption that 960B was the only batch of Trojans. Seems to me that a second batch would make Trojans less rare, but not much less rare. -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova1969a Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 I'd love to bit on a newbie Need about 8 more posts then ill upload them. Thanks for your interest! Can you post some pictures of the whole guitar as well as the neck block? CONGRATS on the Trojan! Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova1969a Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 Thank you after closer inspection it's a 9 with a circle around it. Yes, I'm going to have to say congratulations on that, indeed. Whenever a Gibson Trojan finds a new home, it's big news. So... you're familiar with the old guitar forum saw... "If there are no pictures... (it didn't happen !)" the red 7 (in pencil?) is the production number (for that day? {calling Mr. Rar for a fact check}) in that batch pertaining to it's FON (even though the particular alphanumeric you've given doesn't sound quite right). I think we'd all love to hear the story on how that one happened to end up in your living room. Again, HNVGD congratulations! SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova1969a Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 Well after showing Gibson the photos and the fon they determined it is in fact a 36 Trojan. Its very possible that I'm not reading the whole fon # correctly or some of it is worn away or lightly stamped. I'm. Going to try and get in there closer to reinspect number Once I can upload pics. You Guy's can check it out thanks! This interpretation seems very unlikely to me, given current best guesses on production dates. Batch 12B would be from very early in the year, and the Trojan/J-35 didn't go into production until October, and current thought seems to be that the Trojan became the J-35 no later than December. The earliest batch in the shipping records is 960B, and this batch is explicitly labeled "Trojan". 960B and 961B are the only two batch numbers for Trojans that have shown up in the J-35 registry. (Again, according to the registry, 78C -- the first batch in 1937 shown in the shipping records -- definitely is not a Trojan.) There were at least 5 more batches of J-35s in 1936 -- 1023B, 1028B, 1032B, 1042B, and 1078B -- and I don't know which of these are Trojans and which are J-35s proper. (Maybe no one knows for all five at this point.) I suspect that at least some are Trojans, though, because I recall Willi Henkes remarking that Trojans are "much less rare" than George Gruhn's estimate of 39 suggested, because that estimate was based on the assumption that 960B was the only batch of Trojans. Seems to me that a second batch would make Trojans less rare, but not much less rare. -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova1969a Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 Thanks for the info! According to the "Blue Book of Acoustic Guitars", sixth edition "F O Ns for the years 1935-1941 usually consisted of the batch number, a letter for the year and the instrument number. Examples are as follows: 722 A 23 465 D 58 863 E 02. Code Letter and Year A 1935 B 1936 C 1937 D 1938 E 1939 F 1940 G 1941" If that's the case, it would seem like your guitar was in batch 12, instrument number 40 and it was made in 1936. There was no mention as to what the red "7" could mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova1969a Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 Does a reply count as a post. I'd like to upload photos of this guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova1969a Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 I'm going to have an appraisal done by Mr Gruhn soon. I have soon good pics but need to take some better ones with a better camera. Hopefully that should shed some light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova1969a Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 Here's some pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova1969a Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 You may have to zoom in to see frets clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova1969a Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 Seems that's all I can send maxed. Out global quota. Have pic. With tape measure indicating 16 inches and another of front of head stock. Thanks. Let me know what you guys think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 That is in wonderful condition. Whatever it says on the neck block. Or the headstock. I'm sure all would still be very interested to find out more on how you came onto this guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova1969a Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 Thank you, actually I was buying a PT cruiser with a blown engine from this lady. See asked do you know anybody that would be interested in a guitar? She had tried to learn to play back in the early 70,s but gave up. So it sat. when I saw the headstock , the way gibson was written I knew It was special but not sure how special. I said sure I,ll take it off your hands!!! The rest is history That is in wonderful condition. Whatever it says on the neck block. Or the headstock. I'm sure all would still be very interested to find out more on how you came onto this guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova1969a Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 would love too but limit is reached. I can email you alot more if you want..thanks Can you post some pictures of the whole guitar as well as the neck block? CONGRATS on the Trojan! Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova1969a Posted June 22, 2011 Author Share Posted June 22, 2011 Well just received confirmation. And a certificate of authenticity from George Gruhn. Anybody interested in probably the last Trojan to be found? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbiii Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 The "Trojan" story really doesn't make any sense when you know the facts. What happen is the original researcher found 39 occurrences of the word "Trojan" in the Gibson shipping ledgers in late 1936. "Trojan" was the code name for the project to discontinue the Jumbo and replace it with a less expensive version. During this period, the specs changed evolutionarily -- as was typical of Gibson models -- and the name changed (more or less) three times: Trojan, Jumbo-35, and J-35. There is no evidence that I am aware of that suggests the name changes were in any way in sync with the feature changes. I guess there is one guitar that defines the Trojan unequivocally -- 960B-12. This is the only FON for any Trojan ever documented in the shipping ledgers. I am unaware that any batches other than 960B and 961B have been shown to match the specs of 960B-12. But we have a chance to do that here. Because we have 960B-12 So here is what the one known Trojan looks like: The body has exactly the same body dimensions as an original Jumbbo. Here is ours with our '35 Jumbo. So is this what you have? Let's pick, -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova1969a Posted June 22, 2011 Author Share Posted June 22, 2011 That's what I have gruhn confirmed it. Nice pics by the way. Ill send you some new pics and certificate of authenticity in a few days. Thanks! The "Trojan" story really doesn't make any sense when you know the facts. What happen is the original researcher found 39 occurrences of the word "Trojan" in the Gibson shipping ledgers in late 1936. "Trojan" was the code name for the project to discontinue the Jumbo and replace it with a less expensive version. During this period, the specs changed evolutionarily -- as was typical of Gibson models -- and the name changed (more or less) three times: Trojan, Jumbo-35, and J-35. There is no evidence that I am aware of that suggests the name changes were in any way in sync with the feature changes. I guess there is one guitar that defines the Trojan unequivocally -- 960B-12. This is the only FON for any Trojan ever documented in the shipping ledgers. I am unaware that any batches other than 960B and 961B have been shown to match the specs of 960B-12. But we have a chance to do that here. Because we have 960B-12 So here is what the one known Trojan looks like: The body has exactly the same body dimensions as an original Jumbbo. Here is ours with our '35 Jumbo. So is this what you have? Let's pick, -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernova1969a Posted June 22, 2011 Author Share Posted June 22, 2011 Would like to see all entrys in log book pertaining to Trojans. And there corresponding fon #s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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