Guest Farnsburger Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I'm working on a song and I have used the following chords... Gm Gm C Gm Eb Dm C Dm Eb F C/Am7 Dm For the theory experts, Does the chord sequence work without going out of key? And is it in Gm? Also, the more I listen back the more I think I recognize it. Have I nicked it? Have I just been listening to it for too long? Is it perhaps a well known and well used sequence that I can happily use? Edit: I messed with this post for ages before working out the real questions in my own head so it changed several times. Sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 A couple of run throughs by me; Yes, it works.......The Eb can "appear" out of place, but yes, it fits.......Often it's determined by the human ear what works rather than relying upon actual theory rules....If rock music followed music theory rules, many songs wouldn't exist..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsburger Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 A couple of run throughs by me; Yes, it works.......The Eb can "appear" out of place, but yes, it fits.......Often it's determined by the human ear what works rather than relying upon actual theory rules....If rock music followed music theory rules, many songs wouldn't exist..... Good good. Now then, I also had a version going where I had used both Cmaj and Cmin. The major 3rd in C is the 7th in G, therefore the minor third in C is the flattened 7th in G. This means I have a flattened 7th a 7th and a 1st (8th) Seems wrong but it sounds OK to me. I decided it must be wrong and removed the Cmin but I wonder if I had to do that. Obviously the 7th flat 7th and 1st (8th) were not being played all at once. I can't really play a 7th and a flattened 7th in the same melody, can I? Hmm, I think I wanted a flattened 7th so If I changed all the major Cs to minor Cs is that still OK? I think I'm getting close to the subject of modes here. or is it just that my key would really be Gm7? BTW, with reference to that Eb. I know, but It sounds fantastic in the sweep pad I have programmed into my synth. There will be no rhythm guitar really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I'll run through it in a bit..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsburger Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Thanks mate... Gm Gm C Gm Eb Dm Cm Dm Eb F Cm/Am7 Dm Actually I have to use Cmin for that Cm/Am7 relationship to work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A add9 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 You can't use a pure G minor scale, with a Cmaj chord in the progression, because C major uses an 'E' note instead of Eb. Just use the Dorian mode with a G root. Dorian is the 2nd mode generated by the major scale. It's step pattern is R W H W W W H W. I'm working on a song and I have used the following chords... Gm Gm C Gm Eb Dm C Dm Eb F C/Am7 Dm For the theory experts, Does the chord sequence work without going out of key? And is it in Gm? Also, the more I listen back the more I think I recognize it. Have I nicked it? Have I just been listening to it for too long? Is it perhaps a well known and well used sequence that I can happily use? Edit: I messed with this post for ages before working out the real questions in my own head so it changed several times. Sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsburger Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Actually, there is no Am7 at all it's a Cm6. God I'm tired and confused now. Time to sleep on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsburger Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 You can't use a pure G minor scale, with a Cmaj chord in the progression, because C major uses an 'E' note instead of Eb. Just use a G Dorian mode (which is the 2nd mode generated by the major scale,, and you'll be ok. That probably answers my question. I needed to make the Cmaj into Cmin throughout. Sounds fine! Thanks I've had a huge click moment on music theory because of this song and this thread. Well chuffed, thanks to Damian as well! The Cmaj/min was my sticking point and by-Job I think I've got it. It all started because I found 4 licks that all lead so nicely into each other in a minor scale that I decided I must write a song in G minor specially for it. I thought, don't do a boring 1 4 5 based sequence, spend some time working out something nice and now I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Thanks mate... Gm Gm C Gm Eb Dm Cm Dm Eb F Cm/Am7 Dm Actually I have to use Cmin for that Cm/Am7 relationship to work? Running through it as solid chords on a guitar as if it were synth, and as synth guitar, for me it works all possible ways, with some being more pleasing to the ear... Um......For me, the Cm works as a trans chord, as does as a Cm followed quickly with a Am7, yet as a Cm barre and a Am7 barre....Once again, I go with what works for the ear......Now Farns, having said that, a lot of stress from a legal battle as a plantiff killed much time and creativity for the past year....That battles not won yet, but I can breathe now.....So, I planned on setting up Skype Video for a full year now, we never got around to doing it....Your thread here has lit that fire to get me to get it done, as I really need it to help work things like this out.......I'm back spending at least four to ten hours a day on music endeavors...Sorry for the temp-derail.........Yes, it works....Kinda depends on the Cm to Am7 structure wise.....It's a nice progression...Yes, the Eb does sound nice...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A add9 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Thanks mate... Gm Gm C Gm Eb Dm Cm Dm Eb F Cm/Am7 Dm Actually I have to use Cmin for that Cm/Am7 relationship to work? C maj and A min are relative. There are no set rules though as to which chords you include in your progression. If you choose chords that are not part of a key signature then you will have to improvise your lead playing. An easy way to do it is to find a mode that fits, or play over the odd chord with an arpeggio, or a short chromatic run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 C maj and A min are relative. There are no set rules though as to which chords you include in your progression. If you choose chords that are not part of a key signature then you will have to improvise your lead playing. An easy way to do it is to find a mode that fits, or play over the odd chord with an arpeggio, or a short chromatic run. Yes yes yes....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A add9 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 But if you like the sound of the C major, just use a G Dorian mode for the solo That probably answers my question. I needed to make the Cmaj into Cmin throughout. Sounds fine! Thanks I've had a huge click moment on music theory because of this song and this thread. Well chuffed, thanks to Damian as well! The Cmaj/min was my sticking point and by-Job I think I've got it. It all started because I found 4 licks that all lead so nicely into each other in a minor scale that I decided I must write a song in G minor specially for it. I thought, don't do a boring 1 4 5 based sequence, spend some time working out something nice and now I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A add9 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I've found the best way to solo over a progression that has no real key signature is to play over each chord (using it's notes) instead of trying to use a scale or pattern to cover everything. Just know what chord you're coming to and know what notes that chord consists of. It's not always easy to do on the fly if you're lacking experience and knowledge of the fretboard, but it'll come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAS44 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I've found the best way to solo over a progression that has no real key signature is to play over each chord (using it's notes) instead of trying to use a scale or pattern to cover everything. Just know what chord you're coming to and know what notes that chord consists of. It's not always easy to do on the fly if you're lacking experience and knowledge of the fretboard, but it'll come. I find that is a great way to go about it, though not 100% of the time. Using chord tones for solos, can be somewhat limited at times (in my experience at least) but using them is a fantastic way to increase your awareness. :) A while back I was trying to make heads or tails of a song's key, ended up being C Phrygian.. Confused the f'ck out of me for a bit, got blindsided if you will :/ Good post sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A add9 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 . quote name='DAS44' timestamp='1319416593' post='1031842'] I find that is a great way to go about it, though not 100% of the time. Using chord tones for solos, can be somewhat limited at times (in my experience at least) but using them is a fantastic way to increase your awareness. :) A while back I was trying to make heads or tails of a song's key, ended up being C Phrygian.. Confused the f'ck out of me for a bit, got blindsided if you will :/ Good post sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A add9 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Thanks, I agree. Generally what I will do while soloing is add something more to the chord. If it's an A major, I may add a G# note, which will will give the chord a Maj 7 jazzy feel or go with a G note for that bluesy flavor. Which direction I go depends on the chord before and the chord after. A B note would create an add 9 flavor, etc. I find that is a great way to go about it, though not 100% of the time. Using chord tones for solos, can be somewhat limited at times (in my experience at least) but using them is a fantastic way to increase your awareness. :) A while back I was trying to make heads or tails of a song's key, ended up being C Phrygian.. Confused the f'ck out of me for a bit, got blindsided if you will :/ Good post sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShredAstaire Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Does it sound cool? Go with it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Does it sound cool? Go with it!! word. i think it was coltrane that said something along the lines of "learn as much as you can, then forget it all and just play" or someone did. or maybe I'm high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsburger Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Does it sound cool? Go with it!! Not that simple, it was 1am and I was using a sequencer programing the synth part to fit the melody I had previously come up with and listening back with headphones. Besides a lot of pieces of the theory puzzle fell in to place because I asked and because I was looking at the chords laid out on the sequencer. Next is a sax break. Haven't even opened my sax case for a year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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