Fingers tailpiece replacement screws

[Mojorule]

When I first got my Howard Roberts Fusion III a few years ago, one of the tailpiece screws was bent and one of the knobs was a bit crazed inside. Otherwise the guitar was in perfect condition inside and out: no dings or scratches, no structural problems, no odd noises. I've not been in a hurry to change either screw or knob, as the guitar sounds tops, the knob and the pot under it work perfectly, the action and intonation of the guitar are splendid so I don't fiddle much with the tailpiece, and the fact that it has some signs of action has made me happier to take it out and play it. But since the Howard has disappeared from the Gibson range, I've begun to wonder about how easy it will be to get replacement parts for it in future. Gibson speed knobs are easy enough to find here in Europe, and Thomann stock them. But where in Europe can I get a replacement screw for an early 1990s Gibson fingers tailpiece? Any answers gratefully received.

[j45nick]

hmmm..... in Austria? Dunno. First you need to identify what the screws are: gauge, thread type, head type, etc. If you could post some detail pictures of one of the screws, that would help. Places like Allparts in the US have a wide variety of unusual guitar screws, such as non-metric saddle intonation screws for the original ABR-1 bridge, and there are online places that specializes in unusual fastenings as well. Chances are it's some kind of standard industrial fastening, but we have to see to know. The gold-plated ones in particular are hard to find.

 

There are online stores like guitarpartsvintage.com and grguitars.com to check out as well.

 

As a last resort, you might ask Gibson customer service, or try to get in touch with the Nashville custom shop.

[JellyWheat]

hmmm..... in Austria? Dunno. First you need to identify what the screws are: gauge, thread type, head type, etc. If you could post some detail pictures of one of the screws, that would help. Places like Allparts in the US have a wide variety of unusual guitar screws, such as non-metric saddle intonation screws for the original ABR-1 bridge, and there are online places that specializes in unusual fastenings as well. Chances are it's some kind of standard industrial fastening, but we have to see to know. The gold-plated ones in particular are hard to find.

 

There are online stores like guitarpartsvintage.com and grguitars.com to check out as well.

 

As a last resort, you might ask Gibson customer service, or try to get in touch with the Nashville custom shop.

 

You'd have to see the screw in question... it's nothing standard at all. It's not a fastener, its a knurled fine-tuning post that is finely gold-plated. I needed a part for my fingers tailpiece back in 1998. The Canadian Gibson distributor wanted to sell me a whole new tailpiece for something like $760 just so I could get a replacement bolt to which the fingers are attached.

 

Follow the bold text to your friendly Gibson factory!!!

 

Good luck.

J/W

[Mojorule]

Thanks both.

 

Actually, Nick, it's even more difficult here than in Austria, as I'm somewhat down river in Hungary, and not in Budapest either, in a town where sourcing anything besides river water is hard, and where sourcing anything Gibson is almost impossible. Save by internet, of course. The lack of supply extends to cameras of any note, which explains why the pictures of my Woody are so bad, and why I can't really post a useful photo of the screw.

 

The item is exactly as JW explains, however: indeed gold plated and finely tooled. Not standard in most contexts. Perhaps fortunately, apart from the kink in the head, it is a standard part for this rather untypical tailpiece, though. And there really seems to be no damage to the rest of the tailpiece - the slot into which it screws is sound and the whole caboodle would work just fine if it weren't for that kink. Apart from the fact that my Hungarian salary precludes large purchases most of the time, I don't really want to go yanking a perfectly good tailpiece off the guitar in order to install a 400-Euro replacement. I'd be pushed to find a decent luthier here, and I don't want my Howard to go through an evolutionary process like Nick's J45. I am sure a screw will do the trick!

 

I guess I'll give Gibson a try. They still put the tailpiece on the Le Grande, though that hardly makes the screws sound like cheap items. On the other hand, I can't help thinking that a gold-plated fancy screw should be cheaper than Buc McMaster's replacement ivory bridge pins! I'm sort of hoping that it's the rest of the rather clever mechanism which costs the real money. Can I ask what you ended up paying for that bolt, JW? It is a rather chunkier piece of metal than the screws... (Oh and what sort of guitar is yours fitted to, by the way?) Thomann in Bavaria work closely with Gibson, and sell replacement fingers tailpieces too, but not individual screws. Perhaps something can be arranged that way. Mal sehen, as the Germans say.

 

Anyway, thanks for the helpful replies.

[j45nick]

I'd be pushed to find a decent luthier here, and I don't want my Howard to go through an evolutionary process like Nick's J45. I am sure a screw will do the trick!

 

Ah, now you've hurt my feelings!

 

I think the Gibson factory will offer the best chance, although searching luthiers' websites around the world might lead you to one with a hoard of parts and a specialty in jazz/rock Gibson electrics. I'm amazed at the stuff they collect, especially if they've been in business for years. I would still suggest you post a detailed closeup phot of the offending part, in case someone here has one and doesn't recognize it for what it is.

 

Sorry for thinking you were in Austria. I saw Danube, your German conversations, put two and two together, and got three instead of four. My apologies.

[Mojorule]

Ah, now you've hurt my feelings!

 

 

Sorry for thinking you were in Austria. I saw Danube, your German conversations, put two and two together, and got three instead of four. My apologies.

 

Well, I have to admit that the old 45 looks splendid now - now that you've finally got round to posting some pics of it. Just I couldn't face all the trauma. The Howard was a very generous gift from a relative who was downsizing, and I feel about it like an old aristocrat about the country pile - I'm its custodian more than its owner. I try to look after it despite the failure to fix the minor problems that it came to me with. They have made it less daunting to play what was a huge step up from my previous main squeeze, and I think that part of custodianship is regular use and enjoyment. But now I think it's time to do something about the two damaged parts. The instrument left my relative in the US in pristine condition, but arrived in the UK with the minor blemishes. What happened will forever be a mystery, as no serious damage concomitant with rough handling or a fall can be found on instrument or case. Just an internally crazed speed knob and a bent bridge pin. Mojo perhaps, but not earned by its players, so I'd like to make it good.

 

As for the Austria matter, it's quite understandable. Just there also happens to be a small but significant minority of Germans in Hungary whose families migrated here to farm when the Turks left. But my German is not ethnic. It's professional, and needed since I work with some Hungarian Germans. It's also possibly as great an indication of a misspent youth as my guitar playing. In any case I'm a Brit, so I can't take offence. My wife, on the other hand...

[JellyWheat]

Thanks both.

 

Can I ask what you ended up paying for that bolt, JW? It is a rather chunkier piece of metal than the screws... (Oh and what sort of guitar is yours fitted to, by the way?)

 

You are welcome... I am happy to share what little I know. The bolt ended up costing me nothing, since I reminded the tech to whom I was speaking that I knew the address at which he worked, and could probably arrange for a friendly "family" visitor to drop by. Then I gave him my most withering "JellyGlare" over the phone :angry: and told him that just because he was smoking the funny green sweepings off his shop floor didn't mean all his customers were doing the same... :blink:

 

The guitar was a 1996 Howard Roberts Fusion III"

 

Alf Weider Zine! [Zyme? sp?]

 

J/W

B)

[j45nick]

Seriously, post some pictures of the offending bit of hardware. Now you've go us all wound up with no place to go. I'm just waiting for some guy to see the picture and say "that's a McMaster-Carr model 1234 captive intonation screw for a Humongous CNC musical router model Y."

[Mojorule]

Seriously, post some pictures of the offending bit of hardware. Now you've go us all wound up with no place to go. I'm just waiting for some guy to see the picture and say "that's a McMaster-Carr model 1234 captive intonation screw for a Humongous CNC musical router model Y."

 

OK. I'll see what I can do when I have a spare moment to point my laptop and its built-in webcam at said item.

 

In the meantime, here is some archive photography showing a pristine fingers jobby on a Howard which looks rather like mine (though their cutaway looks a bit rounded to me). We're talking the knobble on top and at the rear of the lever holding the 6th string.

 

 

It is much like the old Oettinger banjo tailpiece screw pictured here, but will almost certainly be of a different gauge and length:

 

 

JW, nice to find another (former?) Howard owner on here. Have you sold it then? Did you not get along? The last adverts claimed a one-piece maple neck, but my '91 has a superb 5-piece (or 3-piece + headstock wings). What did/does your '96 have?

 

A bientot.

[JellyWheat]

OK. I'll see what I can do when I have a spare moment to point my laptop and its built-in webcam at said item.

 

In the meantime, here is some archive photography showing a pristine fingers jobby on a Howard which looks rather like mine (though their cutaway looks a bit rounded to me). We're talking the knobble on top and at the rear of the lever holding the 6th string.

 

 

It is much like the old Oettinger banjo tailpiece screw pictured here, but will almost certainly be of a different gauge and length:

 

 

JW, nice to find another (former?) Howard owner on here. Have you sold it then? Did you not get along? The last adverts claimed a one-piece maple neck, but my '91 has a superb 5-piece (or 3-piece + headstock wings). What did/does your '96 have?

 

A bientot.

 

I sold the Howard Roberts... I didn't like the shape of the cutaway, the dinky tailpiece, or the very high frets (which I suppose I could have dressed down). I sort of regret getting rid of it. Also, it was black, and I found that it just disappeared visually into the tuxedo I usually wear when gigging.

 

Au plaisir!

Gelée-Ouïte

B)

 

[PS: 2 of my SoundCloud tunes were played on the Howard Roberts. "Caravan", and "It Don't Mean A Thing"./jw]

[Mojorule]

I sold the Howard Roberts... I didn't like the shape of the cutaway, the dinky tailpiece, or the very high frets (which I suppose I could have dressed down). I sort of regret getting rid of it. Also, it was black, and I found that it just disappeared visually into the tuxedo I usually wear when gigging.

 

Au plaisir!

Gelée-Ouïte

B)

 

Ah comme ca vous arrivez a avoir les accents en plus! Je l'ai oui, tien. O Canada!

 

Hungarian keyboards do a funny, but incomplete mixture of French and German, despite being set up for a language related to neither.

 

Interesting what you say. The cutaway I like in real life, but not in many photos, sort of makes the guitar look asymmetric in many snaps, especially when they shoot with the lower edge angled towards the camera. In reality I don't see asymmetry in my instrument. The Schmidt photo looks fine, as it's taken from the upper edge. Seeing that one, I wonder why I still GAS for a 335...

 

As my guitar was over 15 years old when I got it, the frets weren't super high at all, and the neck proved to be super-fast for my hands. Now I'm beginning to see fretwear, despite the fact that I've had 11s on it since getting it, and haven't been doing very much bending. (I suppose any bending I do with a wound 3rd does have more of an effect.) But it may well be that the speedy neck feeling is to do with the fact that the frets were more worn when I got the guitar than I realized. I'm beginning to suspect that I have had an unknowing insight into what LP Custom players meant when they called their guitars fretless wonders. Lowish frets and ebony board - my fingers just glide around and I don't really have to concentrate on the mechanics of playing so much. Freed up my mind to think about what notes to play instead. I love the guitar for that - it has allowed me to become a much better player in some ways.

 

Agree about black, by the way, having played a few gigs in a tux, some with an old black LP copy. Nice to have a red guitar, especially in a semi. My real problem with black semis though is that the f-holes sort of disappear, or else appear as lighter than the rest of the instrument - sort of like a negative.

[JellyWheat]

Mojoroule...

 

Plus que j'y pense, plus que je regrette d'avoir vendu cette guitare-là!

 

I don't think I would have sold mine, had it been wine red or sunburst... even natural!

 

J/W

B)

[j45nick]

 

It is much like the old Oettinger banjo tailpiece screw pictured here, but will almost certainly be of a different gauge and length:

 

 

 

Hmmm... that just looks for all the world like a knurled thumbscrew. I assume you bent one about half-way down by something hitting it. It does look like an odd bridge design. I would remove one screw and use a thread gauge to determine the diameter and thread pitch, measure the length of the threaded part and the dimensions of the knurled head. These can always be cut to length if you find one from some other source.

 

Is the material brass, gold-plated brass, or plated steel? (check it with a magnet to see if it's steel.) I'm assuming gold-plated brass.

[Mojorule]

Mojoroule...

 

Plus que j'y pense, plus que je regrette d'avoir vendu cette guitare-là!

 

I don't think I would have sold mine, had it been wine red or sunburst... even natural!

 

J/W

B)

 

Mais qu'avez-vous acheté pour la remplacer? Si j'avais une 335 je ne serais pas forcément nostalgique. Ceci dit, je n'échangerais jamais la mienne meme pour une 335.

 

I think I'm with you on colour priorities by the way. Red or sunburst equal first, then natural. Black in last, even if Peter Green had one in said colour. Ta for PM, btw.

[Mojorule]

Hmmm... that just looks for all the world like a knurled thumbscrew. I assume you bent one about half-way down by something hitting it. It does look like an odd bridge design. I would remove one screw and use a thread gauge to determine the diameter and thread pitch, measure the length of the threaded part and the dimensions of the knurled head. These can always be cut to length if you find one from some other source.

 

Is the material brass, gold-plated brass, or plated steel? (check it with a magnet to see if it's steel.) I'm assuming gold-plated brass.

 

I think you are right in your assumption Nick, but not 100% sure.

 

The cause of the bend remains unknown, as there was no accident before shipping, and no accident after arrival. Something must have happened en route. But just the one thumbscrew (for such it is, I suppose) bent, and just one speed knob crazed. And I can't imagine what sort of impact would affect the volume knob for the neck pup and the 6th string bridge screw without affecting any other such items, or the guitar as a whole. They're not exactly next to each other. It's almost as if somebody deliberately bent the screw and then removed the knob to have a separate smack at it.

[j45nick]

I think you are right in your assumption Nick, but not 100% sure.

 

The cause of the bend remains unknown, as there was no accident before shipping, and no accident after arrival. Something must have happened en route. But just the one thumbscrew (for such it is, I suppose) bent, and just one speed knob crazed. And I can't imagine what sort of impact would affect the volume knob for the neck pup and the 6th string bridge screw without affecting any other such items, or the guitar as a whole. They're not exactly next to each other. It's almost as if somebody deliberately bent the screw and then removed the knob to have a separate smack at it.

 

I guess the real question is whether it is practical to try to straighten it, which depends on how badly it is bent. The method would depend on the nature of the bend, and would probably involve heat from a small torch, which could cause the plating to discolor or even be melted off. Plated materials are a bit tricky this way, but it could be a viable solution if you are handy and have the right tools. Cold-bending would probably snap the screw unless it is a small bend.

 

Just by eye, judging the size of your fingers, it looks to be about a number 8 size.

[JellyWheat]

Mais qu'avez-vous acheté pour la remplacer? Si j'avais une 335 je ne serais pas forcément nostalgique. Ceci dit, je n'échangerais jamais la mienne meme pour une 335.

 

I think I'm with you on colour priorities by the way. Red or sunburst equal first, then natural. Black in last, even if Peter Green had one in said colour. Ta for PM, btw.

 

I traded mine for an ES 335. Nice guitar, but too big for me. I like 16" guitars... no bigger, I have discovered. As I said: I should have hung on to the Howard Roberts.

 

nick... he is not holding the "real deal" there, as he said in the caption to the picture. I'm no machinist, but I'm pretty sure the hearing you suggest would cause metallurgical changes more serious than damage to the plating. If there are any machinists lurking, please chime in NOW!

 

My $0.02

J/W

B)

[amx05462]

i have to say jelly wheat is right on the money as always... uh what you have there in your hand is the first piece off a bad bar end of standard screw machine made knurled screw. the reason the knurl is messed up is this . a knurl crushes that form into the material.. most likely brass possibly cheap c12l 14 leaded steel.. the reason the knurl is defective is quite often the end of the bar may have a taper in it causing the knurl to not have enough material to force up..

 

its defenitly not a buggered up knurl because where it is good its properly and evenly peaked...

 

how do i know this ... im a production machinist... we make similar products every day... it is probably sold to gibson for between 10 to 50 cents each.. depending on what the material is and if the maker plates them or gibson does there own.. the only other possibility here is that unusual tailpiece is manufactured by an outside contractor for gibson... in which case they would have the spare part you require..

 

if the part is working correctly. my advice would be to leave well enough alone.

 

if your loosing sleep over it well then youll have to contact gibson or if in fact that is a outside manufactured part youll need to know who makes the tail piece and where they get there screws to get one.

 

your third option is this go to a local machine shop have them make one for you then have it plated... not a cheap process. one ofs are expensive.

 

again... if your not loosing any sleep over it and its functioning correctly let it be.. im willing to bet that nobody knows about it accept those you tell much like that one piece of wallpaper i hung upside down lol

[amx05462]

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/445110903/straight_knurled_screw.html

 

you need to look in places like this .. as to straightening the bent one. the chances are you wont get it right so it will thred in all the way down.. and most likely you will snap it off. specially if its brass.

[amx05462]

http://www.wdmusic.com/archtop_finger_tailpiece.html

 

these people may have a screw for ya.

[JellyWheat]

Thank you, O Great All-Knowing One!

 

Greetings

J/W

[Mojorule]

Thanks all for your continued comments. Nick, Jelly Wheat is right. That's not my screw or thumb, just a similar screw. I have no blow torch, am cack-handed at most things beside guitar playing (where my talents are modest, but suggest some dexterity), and live in a town where there may well be many blow torches, but not for sale. However, I might consider heating the thing somehow and giving it a go, since I wouldn't lose much by doing it. It isn't really functional at present and the tailpiece would actually operate as it currently does without the screw. In any case you've intrigued me with the idea that it might just be bent back into shape. I'm definitely not losing sleep about this, AMX, as I've left it as is for the past 3 years or so, but it isn't strictly speaking functional: it won't actually lower the tailpiece finger that it should operate very much, so can't really alter the break angle over the bridge as it should, and I'm just thinking about getting my house in order, really. Thanks for the link to possible suppliers/makers. I will follow up if my current lead doesn't work out. I have asked Thomann for help, and they are looking into it. They also asked for some photos, so when I've made some for them, I'll post them here.

 

JW, back in the UK I still have a Casino which was my best guitar before the Howard. I ended up not liking it, but because of its really skinny nut, not because of its body size. I like to play with my fingers, and like something to rest my arm on, to keep things steady. A bigger bout does that job well, so I'd be fine with a 335, but I'd miss that extra depth on the Howard which effectively does the same job, but differently. The arm definitely sits nicely over the slightly fatter body, and without the downward stretch that you presumably found uncomfortable on the 335.

[JellyWheat]

Thanks all for your continued comments. Nick, Jelly Wheat is right. That's not my screw or thumb, just a similar screw. I have no blow torch, am cack-handed at most things beside guitar playing (where my talents are modest, but suggest some dexterity), and live in a town where there may well be many blow torches, but not for sale. However, I might consider heating the thing somehow and giving it a go, since I wouldn't lose much by doing it. It isn't really functional at present and the tailpiece would actually operate as it currently does without the screw. In any case you've intrigued me with the idea that it might just be bent back into shape. I'm definitely not losing sleep about this, AMX, as I've left it as is for the past 3 years or so, but it isn't strictly speaking functional: it won't actually lower the tailpiece finger that it should operate very much, so can't really alter the break angle over the bridge as it should, and I'm just thinking about getting my house in order, really. Thanks for the link to possible suppliers/makers. I will follow up if my current lead doesn't work out. I have asked Thomann for help, and they are looking into it. They also asked for some photos, so when I've made some for them, I'll post them here.

 

JW, back in the UK I still have a Casino which was my best guitar before the Howard. I ended up not liking it, but because of its really skinny nut, not because of its body size. I like to play with my fingers, and like something to rest my arm on, to keep things steady. A bigger bout does that job well, so I'd be fine with a 335, but I'd miss that extra depth on the Howard which effectively does the same job, but differently. The arm definitely sits nicely over the slightly fatter body, and without the downward stretch that you presumably found uncomfortable on the 335.

 

Whew, that's good news. If that had ben YOUR thumb, I was going to PM you the name of a good industrial hand cleaner! Real pig fat works wonders, too, or the seal blubber we can get here in Canada!

 

You need to take amx's advice. He is a good and trusted friend of mine, and I have seen pictures of some of his work. He is like a jeweller! Take his advice. I'm sure he can walk you through the straightening process (which I did not think would be recommended).

 

I sold my Casino for the same reason you sold yours. If you like bad fingerstyle guitar, check out the tunes I posted on SoundCloud...

 

http://soundcloud.com/search?q%5Bfulltext%5D=JellyWheat

 

J/W

[Mojorule]

So the quality is poor (I possess one built-in webcam, little natural light and next to no photographic skill), but better late than never, a photo of the actual offending/offended item:

 

 

I realize that the kink does not show up very well, but I think that you can just about make it out. It does prevent screwing the finger right down in the manner that AlWatsky describes on the other Howard Roberts thread.

[JellyWheat]

So the quality is poor (I possess one built-in webcam, little natural light and next to no photographic skill), but better late than never, a photo of the actual offending/offended item:

 

 

I realize that the kink does not show up very well, but I think that you can just about make it out. It does prevent screwing the finger right down in the manner that AlWatsky describes on the other Howard Roberts thread.

 

I'm for from the expert that amx05462 is on these matters, but that looks repairable to me. There doesn't seem to ba a sharp bend, as far as I can tell. If he doesn't just "materialize" in response to your post, I would drop him a PM.

 

He's a very knowledgeable and helpful guy.

 

Good luck

J/W