Daylen90 Posted December 27, 2011 Author Share Posted December 27, 2011 My link Here you go guys i uploaded all my photos to a flickr acount. Added a few more of the inside wood difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Here you go guys i uploaded all my photos to a flickr acount. Added a few more of the inside wood difference. The inside of that top looks like a bit of a hash. On the plus side, the back looks like solid rosewood, maybe Brazilian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 The Back looks Nice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Aside from the truss rod cover, I don't quite see what you mean. Did you compare the pictures of my headstock with those of the guitar udner discussion? The proportions of 12-string headstocks are generally different from those of the 6's. The shape of his headstock looks right to me, as does the logo typeface. Anyone else here with a Gibson 12-string from this period with this type of headstock? I'm not saying this is a Gibson. I'm just not willing to dismiss it out of hand. Looking at the Gibson logo on your headstock and the other geniune Gibson headstock posted here, you can easily see the difference. Your logo is smaller and not placed in the same location of the geninue Gibson. It is out of proportion. That, and the truss rod cover, J200 pick guard, Martin style body, no Gibson logo or serial number make me think this is not a Gibson guitar. It might have some Gibson parts but it seems to be more of a FrankenGibsonMartin guitar. That doesn't mean it doesn't sound great or is of no value. That bookmatch Brazillian rosewood back is beautiful. And the guitar has more than a little mojo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daylen90 Posted December 27, 2011 Author Share Posted December 27, 2011 Looking at the Gibson logo on your headstock and the other geniune Gibson headstock posted here, you can easily see the difference. Your logo is smaller and not placed in the same location of the geninue Gibson. It is out of proportion. That, and the truss rod cover, J200 pick guard, Martin style body, no Gibson logo or serial number make me think this is not a Gibson guitar. It might have some Gibson parts but it seems to be more of a FrankenGibsonMartin guitar. That doesn't mean it doesn't sound great or is of no value. That bookmatch Brazillian rosewood back is beautiful. And the guitar has more than a little mojo! Lmao frankenGibsonMartin. Okay look guys, knowing that this is more of a creation now. Do you think i should get the bow between the bridge and the neck repaired? it is sagging in from the water damage and the bridge is raised off the top slightly where it started to come unglued. Also it has a lot of fine scratches on it. Is there a way i can buff on these but not damage the finish??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daylen90 Posted December 27, 2011 Author Share Posted December 27, 2011 Looking at the Gibson logo on your headstock and the other geniune Gibson headstock posted here, you can easily see the difference. Your logo is smaller and not placed in the same location of the geninue Gibson. It is out of proportion. That, and the truss rod cover, J200 pick guard, Martin style body, no Gibson logo or serial number make me think this is not a Gibson guitar. It might have some Gibson parts but it seems to be more of a FrankenGibsonMartin guitar. That doesn't mean it doesn't sound great or is of no value. That bookmatch Brazillian rosewood back is beautiful. And the guitar has more than a little mojo! Lmao frankenGibsonMartin. Okay look guys, knowing that this is more of a creation now. Do you think i should get the bow between the bridge and the neck repaired? it is sagging in from the water damage and the bridge is raised off the top slightly where it started to come unglued. Also it has a lot of fine scratches on it. Is there a way i can buff on these but not damage the finish??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Lmao frankenGibsonMartin. Okay look guys, knowing that this is more of a creation now. Do you think i should get the bow between the bridge and the neck repaired? it is sagging in from the water damage and the bridge is raised off the top slightly where it started to come unglued. Also it has a lot of fine scratches on it. Is there a way i can buff on these but not damage the finish??? Daylen90, I would have the "sag" looked at but don't do anything about "restoring" the surface. Part of the charm of this guitar is its "patina". It obviously has a few stories built into it. I assume the "sag" of which you speak is the angle of the neck to the body. If you put a straight edge along the neck on top of the frets and slide it down to the bridge, it should just slide across the top of the bridge (the wood not the white saddle part). If, as I suspect, the straight edge hits the bridge or slides along the top of the guitar, it means the guitar is in need of a neck reset. That means the neck comes off and the neck angle adjusted by shaving the neck heel. This operation will make the guitar playable again but is not cheap. The comment about the cursive writing inside the guitar was humorous. No one can write like that inside a guitar. The top was off the guitar when this individual wrote his little message. Howver, that just makes sense as this guitar was "created" in 1973 by this individual, from parts of other guitars. Those parts appear to be Gibson and Martins but we can't be sure without close inspection. The "dowel" plug in the neck heel could be masking a bolt that holds the neck on for all we know. Again, that would make sense as a 12 string has a great deal of tension on the neck join and bridge. The other thing I noticed from your interior photos is that the bridge seems to span existing braces and the bridge plate and bridge pin holes actually intersect some braces. I'm guessing this body was NOT a 12 string in its former life. One of the bridge pin holes actually has been drilled through a brace! Also, one photo of a brace shows some movement of the brace after glueing. With the presence of metal "cleats" in the cross braces, that tells me this was no luthier that built this guitar, but a handy man. Put some glue on that sucker, put it in place, and drive a couple of staples into the joints to hold that puppy until it dries. Might work on a piece of furniture, but luthiers use clamps. :) Have your guitar tech take a look at restoring structural integrity to make it playable and leave the cosmetics alone. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Daylen90, Have your guitar tech take a look at restoring structural integrity to make it playable and leave the cosmetics alone. IMO. Agree 100%. It looks like a collection of parts. We will obviously disagree on the provenance of some of those parts, but I'd love to see this one in the flesh. A bolt through the heel of the neck into the body would do virtually nothing structurally, if the neck and body have a proper dovetail joint. Someone probably knew enough to cobble this one together, but not enough to do it in a professional manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Agree 100%. It looks like a collection of parts. We will obviously disagree on the provenance of some of those parts, but I'd love to see this one in the flesh. A bolt through the heel of the neck into the body would do virtually nothing structurally, if the neck and body have a proper dovetail joint. Someone probably knew enough to cobble this one together, but not enough to do it in a professional manner. I agree Nick, but who knows what was done to that dovetail joint when that neck came off whatever body it was attached to in its previous life? The wood plug at the heel looks suspiciously like a "handyman's" bolt on neck repair. Stick a bolt in and cover it with a plug that doesn't' even mask well. I mean, he didn't even shave it flush! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atienne3 Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I somehow stumbled on this forum locating a discussion of Doc Savage, an instrument builder from Monroe, LA that I met a few time in the very early 70s. Doc was a regionally famous country/bluegrass musician and had a huge workshop where he produced and repaired instruments. It seemed like he had some connections with guitar manufacturers because, as supposed in this thread, he had a huge inventory of factory parts. I remember large canisters of electronic parts, including what we considered prized classic guitar pick ups. But what I most remember was his veneration of the rare woods that he had in his inventory and the handcrafted detail of his inlay work way before Dermmel tools and computer controlled lathes. This guitar is probably from Docs hands and, if it feels and sounds good, then there must be some sustained quality in his work even if assembled from spare parts. And it would seem that he was proud of the guitar attested by his hand signature inside the instrument. Dont get caught up in purity of the provenance, just make music. Thanks See this link for additional info: http://www.louisianafolklife.org/LT/Articles_Essays/MakingMusic.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Im going to have to say ... a Heritage, or Blueridge body ( beings its showing a rosewood back..). with a B45 12 Bridge and Neck.. the neck looks to have been screwed into place and a dowel was used at the heel to cover the screw.. it has been worked on from what I see.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Since Mr. Savage, whomever he is, honestly signed his work. My gut reaction is that this was a home built guitar using a neck salvaged from an old Gibson. I would have to say it's a 1973 'Savage' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stampede3 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I somehow stumbled on this forum locating a discussion of Doc Savage, an instrument builder from Monroe, LA that I met a few time in the very early 70’s. Doc was a regionally famous country/bluegrass musician and had a huge workshop where he produced and repaired instruments. It seemed like he had some connections with guitar manufacturers because, as supposed in this thread, he had a huge inventory of factory parts. I remember large canisters of electronic parts, including what we considered prized “classic” guitar pick ups. But what I most remember was his veneration of the rare woods that he had in his inventory and the handcrafted detail of his inlay work – way before Dermmel tools and computer controlled lathes. This guitar is probably from Doc’s hands and, if it feels and sounds good, then there must be some sustained quality in his work even if assembled from spare parts. And it would seem that he was proud of the guitar attested by his hand signature inside the instrument. Don’t get caught up in “purity” of the provenance, just make music. Thanks See this link for additional info: http://www.louisianafolklife.org/LT/Articles_Essays/MakingMusic.html Sorry to bump this up but everything I've heard about "Doc" Savage is pretty much summed up in this post. I've also heard that he may have been a Gibson Tech or maybe even an authorized repair shop at the time. I also have a 6 string similar to this made by Doc with what appears to be hummingbird parts. It was handed down to me. The neck is currently warped very badly. Rick at elloree guitars in this article http://www.louisianafolklife.org/LT/Articles_Essays/MakingMusic.html will have it in his hands soon to look it over and possibly repair. He knows of Docs work well. It is dated 4-4-74 and I do know Doc passed away in 1974 so it must have been one of his last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stampede3 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 After a few month of research and finding someone who knew the situation this is what I've found. Doc Savage knew someone on the inside somehow. Story is he would ride up to the Gibson factory every couple weeks in his station wagon and they sold him all the parts that didn't meet quality control. It has not been determined if he knew what was wrong with each part or fixed each part but he used the parts to combine and create guitars that were considered "Custom" for the day. My Hummingbird has a maple fretboard for instance. No one has been able to value any of them that I know of. Some say it is valueable because it is custom made with Gibsons parts and blessing. The other side says it is a pile of junk put together by some guy. From what he said some will deny Gibson ever sold their "Blem" parts. We know for sure this would never happen today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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