Best amp for EB3?

[Greg S]

Hi,

 

I realize that this is very subjective, but I can narrow down just a bit, what I am looking for.

 

Currently, an Accoustics 100w combo is being used, in which the stock speaker has been replaced by a 15" Gauss bass speaker. The 100w combo head is disconnected, and a 300w Accoustics bass amp is powering the speaker. When I bought the EB3 about 20 years ago, there was nothing new for sale in the stores that oculd handle the power of this bass, so DiFiore's in Cleveland, put this combo together. At least it stays together. It also is not too bad as far as volume, but definitely would like to go a bit louder, and with a bit more bottom end punch. There are a lot of 'dead' spots in this system. By this, I mean that as you move your finger up the fretboard, that the notes are loud, loud, loud, somewhat muted, and then loud again as you continue up or down the neck. At any rate, I would like to increase the volume, and more accurately reproduce the notes. Unfortunately, I am primarily a guitar player, who is hooked on vintage Marshalls, and know nothing about bass amps. My understanding, is that some old Ampeg units might be the way to go. I used to play with a bassist who used an Ampeg tube amp, and an Ampeg 8x10(?), and he said that nothing could beat this setup. Unfortunately, I lost track of him several years ago, and am not sure who to ask for advice. The people who work in the music stores are all younger, and they do not know what I am looking for. So, is there anybody out there who could suggest what might help me blow out the walls in a home studio? The EB3 is a 1966 or 1969, and I exclusively use the mudbucker pickup.

 

Thank you,

Greg

[Kelvinator]

Hi,

 

I realize that this is very subjective, but I can narrow down just a bit, what I am looking for.

 

Currently, an Accoustics 100w combo is being used, in which the stock speaker has been replaced by a 15" Gauss bass speaker. The 100w combo head is disconnected, and a 300w Accoustics bass amp is powering the speaker. When I bought the EB3 about 20 years ago, there was nothing new for sale in the stores that oculd handle the power of this bass, so DiFiore's in Cleveland, put this combo together. At least it stays together. It also is not too bad as far as volume, but definitely would like to go a bit louder, and with a bit more bottom end punch. There are a lot of 'dead' spots in this system. By this, I mean that as you move your finger up the fretboard, that the notes are loud, loud, loud, somewhat muted, and then loud again as you continue up or down the neck. At any rate, I would like to increase the volume, and more accurately reproduce the notes. Unfortunately, I am primarily a guitar player, who is hooked on vintage Marshalls, and know nothing about bass amps. My understanding, is that some old Ampeg units might be the way to go. I used to play with a bassist who used an Ampeg tube amp, and an Ampeg 8x10(?), and he said that nothing could beat this setup. Unfortunately, I lost track of him several years ago, and am not sure who to ask for advice. The people who work in the music stores are all younger, and they do not know what I am looking for. So, is there anybody out there who could suggest what might help me blow out the walls in a home studio? The EB3 is a 1966 or 1969, and I exclusively use the mudbucker pickup.

 

Thank you,

Greg

 

Wow Greg - you mentioned DiFiores in Cleveland - you must be an old fart like me! I have 4 Gibson basses, and one of them is an SG. I don't know how the SG compares tone-wise to a "real" EB-3, but mine sounds great through my old Traynor tube head going into 6 x 10" @ 8 ohms. I also use a Mark Bass SD-800 head through a 15 and 2 X 10". Both rigs sound very good. You'll get a lot of opinions on what is the best amp to use, but the only way to be sure is to take your EB-3 to Guitar Center or Sam Ash and play through a bunch of them. Just about any older (made in USA) Ampeg would be a safe bet, but stay away from the ones made in China.

 

I know what you mean about some of the younger sales staff at music stores. I bought the 1970 Traynor Custom Special head last year at Sam Ash in Mayfield Heights for $250.00!! After I bought it, I asked the young salesman why it was so cheap; he said that no one ever heard of Traynor, and that it was just old, heavy, and nobody wanted it! Well, I guess that describes me too.

[Bassilisk]

There are a lot of 'dead' spots in this system. By this, I mean that as you move your finger up the fretboard, that the notes are loud, loud, loud, somewhat muted, and then loud again as you continue up or down the neck. At any rate, I would like to increase the volume, and more accurately reproduce the notes.

 

I had a 76 EB3 and liked it a lot, but eventually needed something more modern. What you're describing here isn't the system - it sounds like a dead spot in your bass. Even the cheapest amp/speakers do not "dead out" on a particular note but will reproduce everything in their frequency range (the quality of tone is another story). So if you've got loud-loud-dead-loud-loud it's not the amp.

 

Change the strings, get a good setup and see what happens. If there's no (or just marginal) change it's the bass itself. It has a resonant frequency equal to that note and nullifies it. Go to TalkBass, search "dead spots" and you'll find a wealth of info and solutions. The primary one is adding mass to the headstock.

 

As for a rig - just about anything will do because the old mudbuckers are pretty one dimensional. To maximize your options though, I'd say you couldn't go wrong with a 1x15 and 2x10 setup. Still cover the bottom with some punch and get the snap of 10's. I said snap, but with mudbuckers that's a very relative term - I've never actually heard them snap. Maybe clarity would be a better word.

 

Ampwise - many great amps are out there and the only way to choose well is to do some homework and then decide what characteristics you're looking for. It becomes a function af $$$. Because the bass is so hot make sure there's a padded (or swtichable) input so you don't overdrive it all the time. As to old Ampegs - I had a mid 70's SVT, the classic real deal. Arguably one of the best amps I ever heard, ever. It also weighed 100 lbs and cost in the neighborhood of $2K.

 

So, read up on what's out there, then bring your bass to stores and check out what they have for a relative feel. Do not rely on salesmen for anything other than a cord so you can play. Those old EB3's need to be fitted for just what you're looking for because they're not like modern basses at all. Good luck!

[Greg S]

Kelvinator - I haven't been to DiFiores in a very long time. From what you said, it sounds like they are not there anymore. When I first moved to the Akron area in the late 70's, someone inadvertently mentioned that I needed to go to DiFiores, so I tried them out. Mr. D is who I usually dealt with, and, as time went by, Chip seemed to take over for his dad. It was interesting, as at the time that I was looking for an amp for the EB3, that Chip took me into their cellar, which was loaded with parts from everything imaginable, and he tried several different combinations of different parts, until something seemed to work.

 

As for that young salesman selling the old, heavy amp, that is almost exactly how I got the EB3 in the first place. Someone had apparently traded in an EB3, complete with original hard case, to Henry's music in Barberton. They considered it to be nothing but an old obsolete boat anchor, and suggested that I buy the bass and case for $200, just to see if I liked playing the bass. If I liked it, I could move on to a "real" bass. I think that part of the reason that he sold it, was that he did not have a sound system that could handle it.

 

I will add Traynor to the list of amps that I will look for.

 

Thank you,

Greg

[Greg S]

Bassilisk - Another local bass player suggested the same thing. He thought that the dead spot was in the pickup. I did notice that the dead spot did not exist with the bridge pickup, but thought nothing of it, as the bridge pickup is only capable of a fraction of what the neck pickup can do. As a side note, I found that it is sometimes easier to learn a new song while using the bridge pickup, and then, after knowing the proper notes to play, switch over to the mudbucker. Even if something is slightly dead, it still will sound good. I am taking the bass to this other person's house to try out their amp, and see if there are dead spots, but I suspect that his amp will not handle the EB3.

 

I've been reading as much as possible about the Ampegs. Some sounds like myth. Some sounds like fact. I have found SVT's, but they all seem to be the newer ones. Additionally, some sources seem to differentiate between early and late 70's Ampegs. I agree with you though, that I would not consider buying another amp and speaker combo with out trying it out first. Given time, I may be able to find someone who has a vintage amp that I could try in the Akron area, and then use E-bay to locate one nationally.

 

Thank you,

Greg

[Bassilisk]

I can only tell you that a pickup doesn't have dead spots - it either works or it doesn't. Being the bridge pickup has much lower output and is also quite a bit brighter the dead spot is not as apparent. The higher frequencies will make the note sound clearer but you won't get the sustain - that's the key.

 

Ampeg is just the tip of the iceberg. If you really want an SVT then get a new one - they have reissued them with modern improvements. The older stuff is just that - old. Don't get hooked on the hype.

 

Look at a Mesa M9 for example - full graphic, compressor and 900 watts @ 4 Ohms.

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/product_info_new/index.html

 

One of the many new amps that'll blow your skirt up. Too many to list, and modern full tube amps are also out there. The shopping will be worth it.

 

Will

[MrNylon]

Along with the Mesa, check out the Hartke line.

[Kelvinator]

Greg - are you familiar with Lay's Guitar Shop on Kenwood Ave. in Akron? Dan is an excellent luthier, and would be able to diagnose any problems with your bass; if you're in Akron, you have to go see Dan. Also, right next door to Lay's is a music store that has a lot of used gear. I was at Lay's last summer having a nut replaced (on a bass ), so I checked out the music store to kill some time. He had some good used amps in there at pretty reasonable prices. It might be worth stopping in.

 

Here's a link to Lay's: http://www.laysguitar.com/ I go there for any work I don't want to do myself. Several years ago Dan routed & installed the neck pickup, and refinished the Les Paul in my avatar from Honeyburst to what I call Wineburst. He did a beautiful job. I now do most of my own mods, but still take the hour + drive to Lay's for anything out of my comfort zone. Take your bass to Lay's - They are nice people that do exceptional work at reasonable prices.

 

Bruce

[Greg S]

Bassilisk - I will check out the new SVT. I noticed one at the Guitar Center in Montrose, but never gave it a thought. That Mesa looks to be rather impressive too

[Greg S]

gsgbass - Never heard of Hartke. I'll check it out on the web today.

[Greg S]

Kelvinator - When I first arrived in Akron, Virgil Lay was the person to take things to. He could make a guitar almost play itself. I think that he passed away, or is no longer there. BTW - Kenmore Blvd is walking distance from where I work.

[Kelvinator]

Kelvinator - When I first arrived in Akron, Virgil Lay was the person to take things to. He could make a guitar almost play itself. I think that he passed away, or is no longer there. BTW - Kenmore Blvd is walking distance from where I work.

 

Dan Shinn is there now, and he's excellent - start walking!

[Bassilisk]

Bassilisk - I will check out the new SVT. I noticed one at the Guitar Center in Montrose, but never gave it a thought. That Mesa looks to be rather impressive too

 

 

Make sure you try out the SVT VR (Vintage Reissue) and not the CL (Classic). The VR is the new version of the original.

 

Like I said, there is something for every budget.

[Greg S]

Bassilisk - Thanks for the clarification. I just need to find one to test out now!

[MrNylon]

gsgbass - Never heard of Hartke. I'll check it out on the web today.

 

This is the LH500 head, with the Acoustic B410 cab. It sounds great. Jack Bruce is using Hartke now.

 

[Greg S]

Thanks for posting the pic. Looks pretty nice.

[MrNylon]

I'll use the Hartke over an Ampeg any time.

[hsech]

Being an old fart like myself, I like small and light. Depending on the size of the venue, I use either a Carvin Micro MB10 (200 Watts and 1x10 speaker) or a Carvin Micro MB15 (200 Watts and 1x15 speaker). I've found that either amp handles the low end of my SG bass without a problem. Both are room shaking amps. I also have a matching extension cab with a 1x15 that works with either of the Carvin amps. When adding the extension cab it goes to 4 Ohms and 250 watts. What I really like about the Carvin Micro amps is the weight. The MB10 only weighs 23 lbs and the MB15 weighs 32 lbs. My old back really appreciates the light weight. I'm playing in two bands and usually the MB10 is sufficient. It has a DI line out. I got turned on to Carvin last year. I use to lug around a Mesa Boogie Walkabout Scout, but IMO the Carvin has a better sound.