Promoters and Festivals

[kaleb]

Business is not dirty. At least not mine. To lump anyone who owns or operates one into that catagory is wrong.

 

What kind of business do you operate?

 

Sorry if I offended you. I should have reworded it different.

 

I was just trying to make a point that there are some that will try and screw others. But there is different kinds of business. Your kind of business, and dirty business. The straight shooters and the crooks.

 

Some of my favorite musicians (including Michael Schenker, Ace Frehley, and others) were screwed because of crooked agents/managers and lack of good promo and marketing. The Michael Schenker Group and Frehley's Comet could have been a lot bigger than they were if they had good promotion and if they were with the right people. The music was great, but it didn't have any appeal, and they (and their entourages) were getting screwed left and right.

 

For a band to make it, good promotion and marketing is necessary. You have to get your product out there and shove it in people's faces. You need merchandising (as in T-shirts, hats, etc. NOT lunch boxes.....). You need advertising. You have to keep your head up. That's the way it goes.

[dlutter]

I think what some of you are missing is you get paid for what you are worth. When I lived in the KCMO area and good cover band playing C&W could earn $1500 a night. And a band trying to promote their own Hard rock songs would pay a couple 100 bucks to be allowed to play at 3 AM to a few people. The country band was paid to entertain, where the hard rockers thought they where stars and never understood that they were not stars. So making a local band pay to play is normal. If you don't make the owners or promoters money, they have no need for you. There is a reason there is so few bands making the big bucks. As they say, you have to pay your dues before you are a star.

 

Dlutter

[Enmitygauged]

We don't play covers I've been down that road to boredom. As far as national it's held in almost ever state in Australia. We have the choice to play other states if we believe we can sell tickets there. We chose not too we may have a small following here but taking on Melbourne or Sydney right now would be a bit much.

[Enmitygauged]

We don't play covers I've been down that road to boredom. As far as national it's held in almost ever state in Australia. We have the choice to play other states if we believe we can sell tickets there. We chose not too we may have a small following here but taking on Melbourne or Sydney right now would be a bit much.

[milod]

I think, as an old guy who's lived a cupla lives, that it's likely that if somebody's been in any kind of business for 30 years, they're probably honest 'cuz as the old saying goes, you can fool some of the people but...

 

The problem with promoters/managers/agents and such in any line of creative work is that once there's a glitch in the relationship, things can get awfully sour awfully quickly - even if both sides are trying to be honest.

 

I think it tends to be worse with less experienced "artists" - not necessarily less experienced at their art, but rather less experienced in business and life.

 

Pardon my cynicism, but having been there, I can almost guarantee that at least once in your life as a creator of intellectual property (including performing saloon musicians), you're almost inevitably gonna get really hit at least once by somebody who has the muscle (legal or otherwise) to "win." Been there, done that and it's far too long a story.

 

The problem with being generally "anti-business" is that even in the most communist (note the small "c") environments, knowledge and skills in business are absolutely vital to keep the wheels of life turning. That's regardless of being in a small neolithic hunter-gatherer village or in a huge "current" national population.

 

But part of the way it works is to be half decent at having honest two-way communication. That's exceptionally difficult for an experienced individual working with one far less experienced who likely doesn't even truly speak the same language. Even then, of course, there are certainly plenty of "business guys" who have gotten as screwed as the "creative guys" claim have happened to them. It's actually beyond "integrity" because lack of real communication functionally makes integrity almost irrelevant.

 

Me? I'd never do a pay-to-play gig. Never did. I've either been paid by somebody who knew what I do or I ain't gone except... It's cost me more than a cupla bucks at times to play at various benefits some folks think I can help raise money for stuff I'm willing to support - and sometimes they end up with some of my cash, too... OTOH, I ain't likely to be sought after, nor to seek a commercial concert series that would involve such stuff.

 

m

[RaysEpiphone]

I think, as an old guy who's lived a cupla lives, that it's likely that if somebody's been in any kind of business for 30 years, they're probably honest 'cuz as the old saying goes, you can fool some of the people but...

 

The problem with promoters/managers/agents and such in any line of creative work is that once there's a glitch in the relationship, things can get awfully sour awfully quickly - even if both sides are trying to be honest.

 

m

 

 

This is good. Nice wording milord ! It's all about relation's that's why in the "business", Artist Relation's or Public Relation's or Artist Repertoire etc is the meat of the industry when it comes to the artist and the bigger side of thing's. Oh there's much more then just this but it play's a good part. And there has been many many people big time and small time that have been ripped off by people who had a higher power than them or where just bad.

 

The Pay For Play(ers), the promoters that hire act's purely by this methodology, they should be called Sale's Promoter's instead of just a plain Promoter. Not knocking it, just not my ideal way of doing thing's cause I see it like this, if I'm bringing in the crowd it's going to be my show and people will want to see me! If there is another act then cool they get to play to and I would give them there share witch will likely be 50% of the profit's. I would do this for show's like a local bar/club type gig, once you get up into the large draw venue's you got to have your act together witch mean's a large following so every one would know that I will play and they will come/pay. In that case there would be no need for me to be a salesman as the people will be there and will buy there ticket's at a regular ticket out-let.

 

I do think it's shame full to do this when there's a major act involved, weather its the opener or the headliner your talking about, if you have a major act then the audience draw is not going to be a problem. I mean it's like this man, if a local band is opening for a major act then that band will likely be a lot like the headliner so the chances are very good that the local act's fan's will have already pre-paid for there ticket's.