Irish Brian in Sweden Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 So some help please :-) Asked this to someone privately here but would like to hear more opinions. If one finds a nice playing guitar like a 71 Es355 Cherry but with major major issues like missing scratch plate, stop installed but the maestro lyre tail piece still there. Changed tuners. Changed bridge. Quite worn but hey it's a 71. Should one just walk away or how much of a discount would make it worth buying? Would it be too much of a pain if I ever tried to sell it down the road. But it has that deep resonant mojo which I love. Nice thin neck. Anyway thanks for any thoughts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Major mods, or repairs, usually devalue an instrument by 50%. So, whatever the market value of an original, good condition, '71 355 is in your area, I'd offer half that amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Plains Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I wouldn't consider any of those things you listed as major issues, personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl51 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 It all depends on what the seller is asking. A 1971 355 is not a 1960 355 for example. Do you have the ability to post a couple of pictures of the guitar for us to see? jim at Tinker AFB Oklahoma City,Oklahoma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 It's all about how much they are asking. You are talking a Norlin guitar here, so they do not bring a premium, even when they are 40 years old. At most it's probably a $3k guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 At most it's probably a $3k guitar. I'll have to disagree with this statement, and say $2K TOPS, and even more realistic would be a value of $1500-$2000. $3k - $4K buys a whole lot of 355 that no one has taken power tools to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I'll have to disagree with this statement, and say $2K TOPS, and even more realistic would be a value of $1500-$2000. $3k - $4K buys a whole lot of 355 that no one has taken power tools to. Wouldn't disagree with that at all. I was overly generous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Brian in Sweden Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 Took some pics yesterday.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlan52 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 This guitar has also had a refret or two??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Brian in Sweden Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 This guitar has also had a refret or two??? Yes definitely.... my Swedish is good but some of the terms are a little confusing... The tag says "New fretted, new side bindings on the neck, mounted stop tail, new Grover Rotomatic of which 5 of the 6 are NOS i.e. old, new pickup frames and covers, patent sticker, new binding plate on the neck varnish, no varnish on the back of the neck, new Nashville bridge, original electronics, with case" Basically a lot.... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlan52 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I would only be concerned where they say "New Patent Sticker". That might indicate to me that the guitar does not have the original pickups of which I would argue that while a Norlin, I would much prefer the 1971 pickups to the new stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 That prices equals about $4250 US. Grossly over-priced at the best of times. If you really want an ES-355 player, you are better off with a recent one. I've seen Nashville-built ES-355's (essentially "Historics")for $2500-$3500 in the last couple of years. For twice what they want for this one, you can get a decent 1963-'64 ES-355, sometimes with PAF's, or at worst with early pat no's. Vintage 355's bring less than the comparable 335. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayyj Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 If the guitar is in Sweden don't they have a 25% VAT rate? That would certainly help push the price up compared to US prices. $4000 or thereabouts wouldn't entirely surprise me in Europe but I'd expect a good, clean example - and there are way two many issues for this to be anything other than a player grade guitar. For what its worth, I have a 70s 355 and I love it. It's not as refined as a McCarty era 355, but still a great guitar. objectively though in the unlikely event that I were to sell it I'd be very surprised if it fetched anywhere near what they're asking for this one, and it doesn't have any of the issues. Unless you're totally smitten with this one and don't mind paying an amount you won't get back if you sell it, I'm afraid I'd keep looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Brian in Sweden Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 Thanks guys. In Sweden they seem to think they can expect over the top prices simply because the supply is so limited. But prices have taken a 10% drop over the past few years leaving a lot of dealers with stock that is hard to get rid of. I was playing a 335 and 345 yesterday that were made in the past few years and to be honest they had very little resonance compared to the older models. Now I know enough to realize it might just be poor setups but the newer gibsons just seem to feel cold ? Know what I mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Thanks guys. In Sweden they seem to think they can expect over the top prices simply because the supply is so limited. But prices have taken a 10% drop over the past few years leaving a lot of dealers with stock that is hard to get rid of. I was playing a 335 and 345 yesterday that were made in the past few years and to be honest they had very little resonance compared to the older models. Now I know enough to realize it might just be poor setups but the newer gibsons just seem to feel cold ? Know what I mean? It's fair to say that the newer Memphis-built ES-3xx models are hit-and-miss. The Nashville-built guitars (read the label), which are generally "Historics" when it comes to ES-3xx models, are more consistent in quality, and in my limited experience, are much better instruments. I have a '68 ES-335 (but it's a 12-string) as well as a Nashville '59 ES-335 Historic. The '68 obviously has a lot of "mojo" and a vibe of its own, but the new Historic is as close as I'll ever get to the tone and character of a real 1959 ES-335, for a lot less money. By about late 1969, ES-3xx models were pure Norlin, and are definitely hit and miss, with more "miss" than "hit". Any ES model with the "harlequin" (black/white/purple) label is pure Norlin. Frankly, acoustic resonance is of secondary concern at best with these guitars. They are pure electrics that happen to be of semi-hollowbody construction. In the US, the Nashville versions may set you back about $1200-$2000 more than the Memphis versions on the used market. In any case, here they are: 1968 ES-335-12, and 2009 Nashville-built ES-335 '59 Historic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Brian in Sweden Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 Hi guys.... Thanks again for all the replies.... appreciate it. I'm starting to learn more and more about valuing old instruments. For instance I was looking at gbase today. I could see the mid 60s 345 all original fetch from 13.000 USD to 20.000 USD. BUT.... a 64 with re-finish was 3000 USD !!! Is that how much a re-finish will affect price? Wow..... Does a re-finish affect tone or sound at all? Or just collect-ability? If so then I guess if you're looking for a "player" guitar then finding a re-finished guitar is the way to go.... On a side note: was in a store here in Stockholm that has lots of vintage Gibsons etc. The guy was trying to explain his high prices by defensively saying that he prices his instruments as their worth as "tools" rather than collect-ability :-) I didn't bother asking him why then the ones with a re-finish in his store were half the price of the others :-) Got very defensive when I said that I could pay for my own ticket to the US for the difference in price :-) (I work a lot on the East coast anyway). Said that SAS would break my guitars in transit..... like as if I haven't bought several guitars in the US before....... -B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleggoe Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Hi "Irish Brian in Sweden",, I've been following your thread with interest. Nice pix by the way!. I'm soon travelling by air from Norway to Heathrow and would like to take my es335 with me, but am unsure how best to go about this - I'm nervous (for obvious reasons) about checking - in the guitar as hold baggage, and have been told it's very hit or miss as to whether the airline will let one travel taking the guitar as carry-on baggage, depending upon attitude of airline at check-in, attitude of the security staff, how full the 'plane is, and not least the attitude of the air crew on that specific flight. I also asked if I could 'carry' to and from the plane, delivering and collecting the baggage at the apron (as one often sees with 'business' travellers and their slightly too large roller suitcases). What experience and advice could you share on thismatter? regards. . . ps my 2010 satin (=cheapo) 335, despite having frets which are higher than I like, plays and sounds quite camparably with a friend's early 60's 345. Also, have swapped out the strings from 10's and 9's to 11's has made a marked improvement in both areas. Good luck with the vintage search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayyj Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 General rule of thumb is a refinish halves the value, although to a certain extent it differs from one to the next - a rare model in otherwise original condition with a well done refin might sell for more than 50% of book value, where as a botched refinish can destroy a guitar altogether. From a practical point of view electrics are less likely to be compromised than acoustics, but it's still possible that there will be some effect on sound and playability. It's also possible that other issues are lurking underneath the new finish, and in particular check carefully for any signs of a headstock break. I personally have no issue at all buying a guitar with a properly repaired headstock break, but opinion is very varied on the subject and for many a headstock break is a bigger value killer than a refin. On the other hand, one of the best sounding guitars I've ever played was a refin, and if you're open to the idea of buying one it's certainly possible to find an exceptional guitar if you shop carefully. $3000 for a 1964 with no other issues sounds exceptional however you look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Sorry, double post, see below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I could see the mid 60s 345 all original fetch from 13.000 USD to 20.000 USD. Do not confuse "asking price" with "selling price". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Do not confuse "asking price" with "selling price". HEED these words! GBASE, EBAY, etc., is FULL of guitars for sale priced MUCH higher than they are likely to get for them. It's real easy to see these and get the impression that is what they are worth, or what they are selling for. I think it is reasonable to say that in "vintage" guitars, MOST of what is seen for sale in adds are prices the seller will never get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 HEED these words! GBASE, EBAY, etc., is FULL of guitars for sale priced MUCH higher than they are likely to get for them. It's real easy to see these and get the impression that is what they are worth, or what they are selling for. I think it is reasonable to say that in "vintage" guitars, MOST of what is seen for sale in adds are prices the seller will never get. The fairest, most realistic prices are Charlie Gelber's Gbase store, OK guitars. You can follow a link to it from his excellent blog/website, es-335.net. Charlie is a hobbyist/dealer, and is totally realistic in how he prices guitars. He recently had a mono '61 355 w/Bigsby for about $11,500, and a nice '64 ES-335 w/Bigsby for $9900. Most of the prices you see from dealers, either brick-and-mortar or online, bear no relation to the reality of today's market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Brian in Sweden Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 HEED these words! GBASE, EBAY, etc., is FULL of guitars for sale priced MUCH higher than they are likely to get for them. It's real easy to see these and get the impression that is what they are worth, or what they are selling for. I think it is reasonable to say that in "vintage" guitars, MOST of what is seen for sale in adds are prices the seller will never get. OK I hear you .... :-) Just look at this eBay item.... 8500 USD wanted for a 59 345 with a spray can refinish and widened tuner holes...... ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Brian in Sweden Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 Hi "Irish Brian in Sweden",, I've been following your thread with interest. Nice pix by the way!. I'm soon travelling by air from Norway to Heathrow and would like to take my es335 with me, but am unsure how best to go about this - I'm nervous (for obvious reasons) about checking - in the guitar as hold baggage, and have been told it's very hit or miss as to whether the airline will let one travel taking the guitar as carry-on baggage, depending upon attitude of airline at check-in, attitude of the security staff, how full the 'plane is, and not least the attitude of the air crew on that specific flight. I also asked if I could 'carry' to and from the plane, delivering and collecting the baggage at the apron (as one often sees with 'business' travellers and their slightly too large roller suitcases). What experience and advice could you share on thismatter? regards. . . ps my 2010 satin (=cheapo) 335, despite having frets which are higher than I like, plays and sounds quite camparably with a friend's early 60's 345. Also, have swapped out the strings from 10's and 9's to 11's has made a marked improvement in both areas. Good luck with the vintage search. Hej ! Let me tell you a story :-) I bought a National Delphi Vintage Steel on eBay and had it shipped to my friend in Saratoga NY. I picked it up a few weeks later and was flying from Syracuse to Atlanta. I went to the check in and mentioned the guitar and that I didn't want to check it. They wanted me to buy another seat ticket just for the guitar !!! I refused and managed to get them to let me check it at the gate.... but they didn't look happy and said that they couldn't guarantee that I would be able to. So get this..... when boarding I just walk onto the plane..... and it's a 737 size plane and there are maybe 30 people on board. I can not only pick my own seat but I had the last 12 rows all to myself ! So they were purely just trying to con me into paying extra.... So my advice.... don't let the check in people see the guitar. Check in like normal. Go through security (they don't care about the guitar). As long as it's not Ryanair no one will hassle you getting on the plane (try to get on first and place the guitar in any empty overhead on the way to your seat). If they do stop you at boarding the worst case is that you'll have to check it there but that's a WHOLE lot better than regular check in where they literally throw the bags around (that's why they're called throwers in airline talk). Hope this helps and lycka till ! Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Brian in Sweden Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 OK I hear you .... :-) Just look at this eBay item.... 8500 USD wanted for a 59 345 with a spray can refinish and widened tuner holes...... ??? Here's the link 345 on eBay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.