bacham Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 I everyone! I'm new to the forum and am planning on purchasing my first Gibson in the next couple of days. I've decided on a Cherry ES330 VOS with a Bigsby. I absolutely love the guitar. It sounds amazing and plays beautifully. The only thing that has been worrying me in the past few days is the VOS finish. It looks great but I don't have enough experience with guitar buying to know whether the pre-aged finish will be detrimental for its value going forward. For example, it has a type of superficial rust on the screws: how do you explain in 20 years that this is how you bought it? It also has rusty parts on the volume/tone knobs. Would buying a non-aged 330 and let it age naturally be a better investment? Any thoughts?? Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Isaac Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 The VOS certification covers that, otherwise it would not have VOS and it would be a brand spanking new looking reissue. Anyway, will you still have it in 20 years? I am not sure what the vlaue of today's guitars will be in years to come, as it is mainly the 50's and 60's history that has added value to the guitars of that period. That will not change. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacham Posted November 26, 2012 Author Share Posted November 26, 2012 Hi Bob, thanks for that! I get what you're saying. I guess I'm hoping the guitar will at least retain its value over the coming years and the superficially rusty screws etc made me a bit weary of that. Will any of the VOS finishings mean that the guitar will require more maintenance? will it reduce it's useable life? I think my questions show that I am not so familiar with the concept of VOS and I just want to get comfortable with it before I take the plunge. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 IMO, buying a new, non-aged 330 would be a better investment. But- buying a new guitar for investment purposes sets you up for disappointment. It is more likely that you will lose money on it. However, you could get an actual 60s 330 in good shape for about the same price or a little less than buying the VOS. The '65-'67 330s are really great guitars and can be had in good condition for less than $3k. Don't get me wrong, I played a VOS 330 yesterday at my local shop and it was phenomenal. They are fantastic. Just probably not good for an investment (unless you buy used at a really great price). Just my .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacham Posted November 26, 2012 Author Share Posted November 26, 2012 IMO, buying a new, non-aged 330 would be a better investment. But- buying a new guitar for investment purposes sets you up for disappointment. It is more likely that you will lose money on it. However, you could get an actual 60s 330 in good shape for about the same price or a little less than buying the VOS. The '65-'67 330s are really great guitars and can be had in good condition for less than $3k. Don't get me wrong, I played a VOS 330 yesterday at my local shop and it was phenomenal. They are fantastic. Just probably not good for an investment (unless you buy used at a really great price). Just my .02 Thanks for that TVguit, very helpful. So if the price is similar to an actual vintage what would you say are the advantages of getting a 330 VOS? Should I rather look for an actual vintage? What drew me to the 330 VOS was playability and sound, which I found incredible. I just want to make sure all other aspects of the (for my standards) very large purchase make sense. Thanks very much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Thanks for that TVguit, very helpful. So if the price is similar to an actual vintage what would you say are the advantages of getting a 330 VOS? Should I rather look for an actual vintage? What drew me to the 330 VOS was playability and sound, which I found incredible. I just want to make sure all other aspects of the (for my standards) very large purchase make sense. Thanks very much! One difference is that the VOS 330 is based on a late 50s version that has slightly different features including a wider nut width and dot inlays instead of block. I found the pickups on the VOS to be a bit hotter than my '67 330. I think you should go out and play as many as you can. Ebay is a good place to see what is out there and for what price. There are some good vintage guitar shops out there depending on what part of the country you live in. If you have a favorite local guitar shop don't be afraid to ask the guys if there is anything cool or vintage in the back room or upstairs. They don't always hang the cool stuff up for every shredder to come play (and scratch). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacham Posted November 26, 2012 Author Share Posted November 26, 2012 One difference is that the VOS 330 is based on a late 50s version that has slightly different features including a wider nut width and dot inlays instead of block. I found the pickups on the VOS to be a bit hotter than my '67 330. I think you should go out and play as many as you can. Ebay is a good place to see what is out there and for what price. There are some good vintage guitar shops out there depending on what part of the country you live in. If you have a favorite local guitar shop don't be afraid to ask the guys if there is anything cool or vintage in the back room or upstairs. They don't always hang the cool stuff up for every shredder to come play (and scratch). cool thanks tvguit. Will see if they have any vintage ones on hand. Fairly convinced I'll go with the VOS one as at the end of the day it is sound and playability that matter (and both matched my style quite well on the VOS) but will check a vintage out just in case. Thanks for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 The VOS 330 would be an excellent choice. I will be very jealous. Let us know how it goes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 IMO, buying a new, non-aged 330 would be a better investment. The only new, non-aged 330 currently available is the ES-330L, which is quite a different animal. Being fortunate enough to own both of these fine instruments, I'd have to give the nod to the 330-VOS. Late '60 vintage pieces that might be priced in the same ballpark will also be quite different from a '59 330, which the VOS model is based on. It certainly can't hurt to try whatever you can get your hands on, but in the end, the 330 VOS may very well win the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretplay Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Buy a 60s Es330 Better guitar real investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Buy a 60s Es330 Better guitar real investment. Better guitar? Maybe, maybe not. There will be stellar examples as well as duds of any model from any era. I can tell you with absolute certainty that if you find a sweet one, the new 330 VOS will go toe to toe with some of the best vintage 330s, and it will put a mediocre piece to shame. Real investment? All depends. How much will you pay for a new 330 VOS, which is based on one of the most highly regarded 330s ever made, and what will that same money buy you in a vintage piece? Quite possibly a less desirable mid to late '60s 330 with a 1-9/16" neck, which will continue to be a hard sell due to the narrow neck. Broad generalizations are no substitute for a hands-on assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versatile Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Just a personal 0.02...a bit anachronistic but whatever... <_< I find much of this artificial ageing/distressing quite nauseating... Everybody seems to be at it...and people focus hard on 'investment potential' of these 'scratch perfect' creations... :blink: It's the way of the world and IMO a typical entre into hard won experience and mojo Almost laughable to be calculating % appreciation in value from a false start... Whatever floats your boat... .....(see below) V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretplay Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Better guitar? Maybe, maybe not. There will be stellar examples as well as duds of any model from any era. I can tell you with absolute certainty that if you find a sweet one, the new 330 VOS will go toe to toe with some of the best vintage 330s, and it will put a mediocre piece to shame. Real investment? All depends. How much will you pay for a new 330 VOS, which is based on one of the most highly regarded 330s ever made, and what will that same money buy you in a vintage piece? Quite possibly a less desirable mid to late '60s 330 with a 1-9/16" neck, which will continue to be a hard sell due to the narrow neck. Broad generalizations are no substitute for a hands-on assessment. Well lets compare a good 60s ES330 with a good 20s ES330VOS. You can't do anything about the neck width, you either like small necks or large necks, that's a matter of taste. As to investment, well if you buy a VOS today will you be able to sell it for 20% more next year cause that's what the book shows for a 66 ES330 bought last year sold this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Well lets compare a good 60s ES330 with a good 20s ES330VOS. You can't do anything about the neck width, you either like small necks or large necks, that's a matter of taste. As to investment, well if you buy a VOS today will you be able to sell it for 20% more next year cause that's what the book shows for a 66 ES330 bought last year sold this year. For anyone currently contemplating the purchase of a 330, there will be a lot of factors to consider, and those factors will be prioritized differently for each of us. The OP is wondering if the VOS finish & aged parts will impact the value of the instrument. You might want to prioritize being able to see the value of your purchase increase in the bluebook annually. The next person may have a set price point they cannot exceed & want the best 330 style hollowbody for their money, etc. When I considered the purchase of another 330, tone and playability were the primary criteria. Build quality, appearance, condition, and price were also factors, but to a lesser extent. If the guitar didn't work in terms of tone & playability, nothing else would matter, most certainly not the question of what the guitar's bluebook value might be next year. Having played a '66 330, I can tell you that even with my fairly small hands, the narrow neck size of that particular example rendered it virtually unplayable. Unfortunately, this issue negatively impacts many players and also impacts the instrument's saleability (as opposed to bluebook value). Therefore, the '59 specs of the new 330 VOS, at a price point considerably lower than any '64 or earlier 330, made this guitar worth a serious look. And what did I find? As with everything Gibson, playing multiple examples of a given model is your best bet. I was fortunate enough to be able to A-B three in the same day. For a number of reasons, the first two samples failed my tone & playability standard, and one also had the all too frequently seen orange peel finish on the neck binding. On to another store and not expecting much, the third example was so good, I literally would not let it out of my hands for fear of anyone else picking it up. Plugged or unplugged, the tone was superb, the neck was a hair slimmer than the other two (perfect for my hands), and the build quality on this natural finish example was simply flawless. It met or exceeded every criteria I had set for a 330. And the price after negotiations? Very far under what one would most likely pay for a clean vintage 330 with '64 or earlier specs. Again, my primary point being that one-liner generalizations about guitars do not cover all the bases, and can tend to misinform more than they inform. As the first new 330 models in many years, both the 330L and 330 VOS are certainly worth comparing to their vintage counterparts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 What drew me to the 330 VOS was playability and sound, which I found incredible. Thanks very much! THAT should be your main concern regarding price and quality. The only "investment" you should be concerned about is what YOU get out of it playing it. If you buy new, you are going to loose money as soon as you buy it. It's just like a car- no one is going to pay a private party what a dealer can get, even with used. The only way to assure yourself of spending wisely is to make sure you get the guitar YOU want when you spend your money. They are ALL "expenditures", so if you are spending money to get a guitar you will want to play and use, get the one that does it best. If you do that, you are going to wear it out and it isn't going to be "new" when and if you sell it. If you want to invest, talk to a stockbroker. Dealers and guitar junkies are not investment counselors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluescat1 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Better guitar? Maybe, maybe not. There will be stellar examples as well as duds of any model from any era. I can tell you with absolute certainty that if you find a sweet one, the new 330 VOS will go toe to toe with some of the best vintage 330s, and it will put a mediocre piece to shame. Real investment? All depends. How much will you pay for a new 330 VOS, which is based on one of the most highly regarded 330s ever made, and what will that same money buy you in a vintage piece? Quite possibly a less desirable mid to late '60s 330 with a 1-9/16" neck, which will continue to be a hard sell due to the narrow neck. Broad generalizations are no substitute for a hands-on assessment. Not if you have small hands, I have an original 1968 tobacco sunburst and I love mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Not if you have small hands, I have an original 1968 tobacco sunburst and I love mine. Yes indeed. Mid to late '60s Gibsons with the 1-9/16" neck (at the nut) can sometimes be stellar in every way. The interesting thing is that the depth of these necks can vary significantly, as can the overall width up the fingerboard. I own a '66 ES-125T and a '66 Epiphone FT45n Cortez, both with the 1-9/16" neck. I love the tone of both, and both have adequate playability. But sometimes the necks from this era can be virtually unplayable even for me, and I like skinny necks! Quite frequently, vintage Gibson buyers will not even consider looking at a guitar with the 1-9/16 neck, which is a shame. The ones with greater depth & reasonable width up the board can often be very playable, but the true pencil necks are almost worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluescat1 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Yes indeed. Mid to late '60s Gibsons with the 1-9/16" neck (at the nut) can sometimes be stellar in every way. The interesting thing is that the depth of these necks can vary significantly, as can the overall width up the fingerboard. I own a '66 ES-125T and a '66 Epiphone FT45n Cortez, both with the 1-9/16" neck. I love the tone of both, and both have adequate playability. But sometimes the necks from this era can be virtually unplayable even for me, and I like skinny necks! Quite frequently, vintage Gibson buyers will not even consider looking at a guitar with the 1-9/16 neck, which is a shame. The ones with greater depth & reasonable width up the board can often be very playable, but the true pencil necks are almost worthless. I also have a 1982 original Lucille with the built in string winders. It is a factory second but the only flaw I see is a slight swirl in the finish around the tail piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotnroby Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 I just got a nice VOS Gibson ES300 TDN. It's just as nice in every way as my original 59 ES 330 TD ... Really!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotnroby Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 I just got a nice VOS Gibson ES 330 TDN. It's just as nice in every way as my original 59 ES 330 TD ... Really!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomV Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 The VOS treatment is no ageing, it is just a gunk applied on the surface and can be buffed out.. Same with the screws, saddles etc. All that VOS is just a trick to save manufacturing time/money by omitting the final buffing (as on gloss instruments). Just a secret sauce .. I had never let the VOS be of any importance when deciding about a particular guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanC Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 I everyone! I'm new to the forum and am planning on purchasing my first Gibson in the next couple of days. I've decided on a Cherry ES330 VOS with a Bigsby. I absolutely love the guitar. It sounds amazing and plays beautifully. The only thing that has been worrying me in the past few days is the VOS finish. It looks great but I don't have enough experience with guitar buying to know whether the pre-aged finish will be detrimental for its value going forward. For example, it has a type of superficial rust on the screws: how do you explain in 20 years that this is how you bought it? It also has rusty parts on the volume/tone knobs. Would buying a non-aged 330 and let it age naturally be a better investment? Any thoughts?? Thanks!! Personally I wouldn't worry one way or the other. As long as the guitar is great for me the finish is secondary. I have 2 x 330's, one VOS and one high gloss. I never regard one better than the other from a visual perspective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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