1938 Gibson L-00?

[dustymason]

This guitar was purported to have been bought new in 1938 by my wife's grandfather in Fort Worth TX. Family lore has him working in a traveling western swing band prior to meeting his wife. Looking around at available web info everything about it points to a model L-00. The single Grover tuners are odd though (not replacements) as they were an option on the Nick Lucas but nothing else about it really would apply to a NL. The stamped serial # (or is it the Factory Order Number? I've forgotten) is 6-3-(illegible)-3. Written in red pencil beneath that is 1/6.

 

Any thoughts on the anomaly of the single Grover tuners? Am I right that the dimensions below indicate it's an L-00?

 

lower bout- 14 3/4"

waist- 8 3/8"

upper bout- 10 1/4"

length of body- 19 5/16"

overall length- 39 5/8"

body depth- 4 3/8"

[Versatile]

Beautiful guitar Dusty...have you seen the Eastman take on these?

[dustymason]

Beautiful guitar Dusty...have you seen the Eastman take on these?

 

Thanks :)

Eastman has gotten a good reputation...quality builds that don"t break the bank.

[zombywoof]

While it is always hard to tell everything about an instrument without eyeballling it (especially when dealing with the L series guitars) generally a four digit serial nmber followed by two numbers in red pencil indicates a WWII-period Gibson which if an L-00 would date it to between 1942-1945.

 

While the single Grover Sta-Tite tuners were available in the mid-1930s, every L-00 I have ever seen came with strip tuners. What I would wonder though is if the guitar was made during the War years the different tuners may be due to wartime metal shortages. Gibson may have had trouble getting their usual tuners and thrown on whatever they had laying around. Just a thought though. Supposedly the metal shortage was so bad, guitars with wooden truss rods were even made.

[jt]

A beautiful guitar! Thanks for sharing it with us.

 

The reason that you've not seen an L-00 with these tuners is because your guitar is not an L-00; it's an L-1. The distinctions among the L-00, L-0, and L-1 were always only cosmetic (finish color, presence of back binding, etc.) and by the late 1930s, the difference between the L-00 and L-1 came down to the tuners. Like the L-Century, the L-1 got these lovely Grover G-93 tuners (the Nick Lucas got the similar G-98 tuners that had metal buttons).

 

It's definitely not a wartime guitar: wrong bridge (it would have the narrower 2 1/4 spacing -- yours has 2 3/8 -- and bridge bolts) and wrong neck carve (wartime L-00s had a C rather than V neck carve). Those tuners also never appeared during the war. Instead, when (rarely) installing individual tuners, Gibson used the newly-patented Klusons that had very thin metals (to meet the wartime metals restrictions).

 

Again, nice guitar.

[dustymason]

A beautiful guitar! Thanks for sharing it with us.

 

The reason that you've not seen an L-00 with these tuners is because your guitar is not an L-00; it's an L-1. The distinctions among the L-00, L-0, and L-1 were always only cosmetic (finish color, presence of back binding, etc.) and by the late 1930s, the difference between the L-00 and L-1 came down to the tuners. Like the L-Century, the L-1 got these lovely Grover G-93 tuners (the Nick Lucas got the similar G-98 tuners that had metal buttons).

 

It's definitely not a wartime guitar: wrong bridge (it would have the narrower 2 1/4 spacing -- yours has 2 3/8 -- and bridge bolts) and wrong neck carve (wartime L-00s had a C rather than V neck carve). Those tuners also never appeared during the war. Instead, when (rarely) installing individual tuners, Gibson used the newly-patented Klusons that had very thin metals (to meet the wartime metals restrictions).

 

Again, nice guitar.

 

I love the V neck, it's one of the aspects that jumps out as most pleasing about playing grandpa's Gibson. I'm real glad this is an L-1. Thanks for the clarification.

 

G-pa's nickname was "Lou" for his initials LEW, and I've wondered if he bought an L00 for that reason Apparently he was *not* an egomaniac.

 

Another question I have-

It's been demonstrated to me that it's in need of a neck reset and that the bridge is lifting, you can just slide the corner of a piece of paper under the edge and I'd say that the bridge is about 90% adhered to the top. It plays okay but it's clear there's room for improvement. Is it a detriment to the guitar if I wait to have the work the work done?

[jt]

Dusty,

 

First, I'd like to report that I checked out your Artisan Stoneworks site. Amazing stuff! Cool myspace music site, too!

 

As for the work on the guitar, there's no risk in playing a guitar that needs a neck reset. But, I'd not tune up a guitar with a lifting bridge. Best case scenario: the bridge eventually pops off. Worst case scenario: the bridge and a chunk of the top pop off. A 1930s L-1 is a very rare Gibson. I'd be careful with it.

 

Thanks again for sharing it with us.

[dustymason]

Dusty,

 

First, I'd like to report that I checked out your Artisan Stoneworks site. Amazing stuff! Cool myspace music site, too!

 

As for the work on the guitar, there's no risk in playing a guitar that needs a neck reset. But, I'd not tune up a guitar with a lifting bridge. Best case scenario: the bridge eventually pops off. Worst case scenario: the bridge and a chunk of the top pop off. A 1930s L-1 is a very rare Gibson. I'd be careful with it.

 

Thanks again for sharing it with us.

 

Thanks John...I'd rather play guitar all day long but stone carving is a close second. My work carving stone is an extension of the inglorious (and back breaking) endeavor that is my day gig, I'm a stonemason. So, hence the stage name Dusty Mason.

 

This L-1 is a recently aquired family heirloom that will be somewhat mollycoddled but certainly played often. The price I was quoted for a reset was significant, though maybe it's the 4-6 week time-frame required that's had me hesitating...I've just hated the thought of being without the guitar. Given your advise, tonight I'm going to tune it down to an open G, play it for an hour and then leave it alone until the bridge issue is addressed. I really appreciate your help with ID, etc.

[jt]

Dusty (great stage name),

 

A bridge re-glue wouldn't cost much. You could have that done and do the neck reset whenever you'd like. That way, you wouldn't have to worry about the guitar and could keep it strung to pitch. I'd be sure, though, that the repair person replicates the original construction of the guitar by using hide glue .

[dustymason]

Dusty (great stage name),

 

A bridge re-glue wouldn't cost much. You could have that done and do the neck reset whenever you'd like. That way, you wouldn't have to worry about the guitar and could keep it strung to pitch. I'd be sure, though, that the repair person replicates the original construction of the guitar by using hide glue .

 

John-

 

Here's an update on the neck reset diagnosis I got for Grandpa's guitar. I took the L-00 (or L-1) to Petillo Masterpiece Guitars in Ocean City, NJ, a shop that my college age nephew recommended. And wow, rightfully so.

 

After reading your reply about having the bridge reglued I slackened the strings immediately and brought the guitar to Dave Petillo, a 2nd generation luthier (and so much more). He had just lost his dad a month before and it was clear that this young guy had garnered all of the knowledge from his amazing father that one would need to be considered a master craftsman. When I was there he was working on a repair to an 18th century Italian bass fiddle for The Smithsonian. In order to match the finish after a major repair on this museum piece, they'd done an analysis and determined that there was a certain species of insect (or caterpillar...I forget which) that would have to be collected and crushed in order to stain the wood correctly. Needless to say, I knew I was in good hands. All I was after was to have the bridge reglued, not being able to swing all of the work *I thought* needed to be done. You should have seen his face when I told him that a reset had been recommended....WHOA, HOLD ON!! He likeded it to quintuple by-pass surgery. He showed me that the pressure from the bridge had contorted the top enough to put it out of whack. Whatever clamping, humidifying, glueing etc. he did, it took about a month to get it back, was surely miracle work. You would never know that it had had a problem and all done for 1/3 of what I'd been quoted for a reset. If I'd loved the guitar before, now I worship it.

 

Although it's a 2-hour drive- As long as I live I will never take a guitar to another shop. Dave is also doing work marquettery for The Metropitan Museum of Art on antique furniture from their collection. Bruce (of coastal New Jersey fame) and a myriad of other well-known players from all over the country use the shop.

 

Every time I've had work done in the past, there's been this little nagging, questioning voice inside, "Is the guitar going to be alright?" I can't say enough about this guy, not only is he expert at what he does but he's a people person who loves to chat with, elucidateand educate his customers. http://www.petilloguitars.com

 

Thanks so much for the advice on the bridge. Best, Dusty Mason

[slimt]

Nice Gibson... a Little Jewel that one is...

[StLucifer]

Hello...I'm glad I've sort of met you. I bought a 1938 (???) Gibson L00 from a guy in town who inherited it from his GrandDad. He was having a baby, at least his gal was, and he needed the money. I got it for a fairly good price...less than he asked. I saw it needed some bridge work, and the tuners were not original. I took it my luthier in Bracebridge...he's an actual luthier, not some guy who fixes guitars in his basement. We talked about the bridge not being the same as other L00...it was wider. My luthier said there was never any smaller sized bridge on this.Now, I have people saying that the cost will be effected by this anomoly. My luthier said there'd be a footprint of another bridge left, and there wasn't. Maybe when it was being made, the guys at Gibson put on a slightly different bridge. Either way, it's a beast, I love the bark of this old gem. What is your thoughts on this bridge issue? Is it not a L00? Is it a different model perhaps? Like a L1 or L0 ? I can upload a few pics if you like. Thanks .

[aliasphobias]

Hello...I'm glad I've sort of met you. I bought a 1938 (???) Gibson L00 from a guy in town who inherited it from his GrandDad. He was having a baby, at least his gal was, and he needed the money. I got it for a fairly good price...less than he asked. I saw it needed some bridge work, and the tuners were not original. I took it my luthier in Bracebridge...he's an actual luthier, not some guy who fixes guitars in his basement. We talked about the bridge not being the same as other L00...it was wider. My luthier said there was never any smaller sized bridge on this.Now, I have people saying that the cost will be effected by this anomoly. My luthier said there'd be a footprint of another bridge left, and there wasn't. Maybe when it was being made, the guys at Gibson put on a slightly different bridge. Either way, it's a beast, I love the bark of this old gem. What is your thoughts on this bridge issue? Is it not a L00? Is it a different model perhaps? Like a L1 or L0 ? I can upload a few pics if you like. Thanks .

 

 

7 year old zombie thread. Upload your pictures though, let's have a look.

[Kzoo Rob]

A beautiful guitar! Thanks for sharing it with us.

 

The reason that you've not seen an L-00 with these tuners is because your guitar is not an L-00; it's an L-1. The distinctions among the L-00, L-0, and L-1 were always only cosmetic (finish color, presence of back binding, etc.) and by the late 1930s, the difference between the L-00 and L-1 came down to the tuners. Like the L-Century, the L-1 got these lovely Grover G-93 tuners (the Nick Lucas got the similar G-98 tuners that had metal buttons).

 

It's definitely not a wartime guitar: wrong bridge (it would have the narrower 2 1/4 spacing -- yours has 2 3/8 -- and bridge bolts) and wrong neck carve (wartime L-00s had a C rather than V neck carve). Those tuners also never appeared during the war. Instead, when (rarely) installing individual tuners, Gibson used the newly-patented Klusons that had very thin metals (to meet the wartime metals restrictions).

 

Again, nice guitar.

 

I was just reading about those tuners last night in your book!

[jt]

I was just reading about those tuners last night in your book!

Thanks!