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replacing hardware on Wilshire worn '66 Starting with the tuning machines...

#1 User is offline   fenrisulfr 

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 03:48 PM

Anyone replaced the tuners on their Wilshire worn '66 reissues? I'm finding this to be a real challenge. I happen to have some old Jackson Gotoh tuners and they were a dead drop-in for the Wilshire's stock tuners (made in Korea). However, the posts were not high enough. The Gotohs are all spec'ed at 27.1mm and the stock tuners on the Wilshire are more like around 30mm or 31mm. So when I installed one of the Gotohs as a trial, the "waist" of the post was seated too low beneath the bushing. It was still functional, but not ideal and probably will have an adverse effect on the lower strings since more than one winding will end up overlapping onto itself. I've looked and looked at the spec of every suitable tuner available and none have post heights over 28mm. I suppose using a thinner bushing, or eliminating the washer underneath could help, but really the strings would then be anchored too close down to the headstock itself.

So question: does anyone have the exact factory dimensions of the stock tuners and/or the tuning holes on the Wilshire?

Now ideally, I would really like to use a Kluson 6 on a plate style tuner setup like on the originals. Problem again is that the posts are only a height of about 27mm and it says the post to post distance for the Klusons is 15/16". I measured the post to post distance on the stock tuners and they were a hair or two over 14/16". I imagine the real dimension should be metric, but I forgot to measure in mm... I wonder if the tolerances would allow the Klusons to space correctly regardless. The actual stock tuner holes were over 10mm so your standard press-in bushings will not work; I had what I believed to be 10mm adapter bushings but they were too small.

Unless I'm missing something, as of right now I see no options for an upgrade due to the post heights. The Gotohs would be a perfect "swap" as a functional upgrade (though cosmetically not what I'm looking for), but the post height is too short. The only thing I can thing of is sanding down/peeling the finish on the back of the headstock (which is quite thick). It's unfortunate because the stock tuners really do suck; they are very difficult to turn and they don't wind consistently or smoothly.

Any ideas?

#2 User is offline   Whitmore Willy 

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 05:15 PM

Fenrisulfr,

Just curious.... I do not own a Wilshire.
How thick is your headstock and how many winds do you put on your strings?

After reading your post I was intrigued. I went and measured the thickness of a few headstocks.
My Gibson LP Custom is 15mm. My Epi LP Standard is 15mm. My Epi LP Special (my avatar) is 15mm.
I have stock full size Grovers on the Special and the Standard and have no problems. They are, as you say, around 27mm posts.

I use 10 gauge strings. I do find it a little tight on the low E and A string but I am still able to get a good 2 turns (wraps) or better on them. As I lock the wrap with an underwind the strings do not slip and it causes me no problems.

Is the Wilshire headstock that much thicker or do you use more winds?

Willy

#3 User is offline   fenrisulfr 

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 05:28 PM

View PostWhitmore Willy, on 21 January 2011 - 05:15 PM, said:

Fenrisulfr,

Just curious.... I do not own a Wilshire.
How thick is your headstock and how many winds do you put on your strings?

After reading your post I was intrigued. I went and measured the thickness of a few headstocks.
My Gibson LP Custom is 15mm. My Epi LP Standard is 15mm. My Epi LP Special (my avatar) is 15mm.
I have stock full size Grovers on the Special and the Standard and have no problems. They are, as you say, around 27mm posts.

I use 10 gauge strings. I do find it a little tight on the low E and A string but I am still able to get a good 2 turns (wraps) or better on them. As I lock the wrap with an underwind the strings do not slip and it causes me no problems.

Is the Wilshire headstock that much thicker or do you use more winds?

Willy



Thanks for the response Willy. So basically you have the bushing, above which should protrude a very very tiny portion of the "straight" portion of the tuning post shaft and above that is the curved ")(" portion that has the hole in it for the string. The bottom of the ")(" should sit just above the top of the bushing, even having the bottom part of the ")(" right at the top of the bushing it ok. The way they non-stock Gotohs 27mm sit is that the ")(" portion is sits a good couple millimeters below the bushing, so there's less than a single low E-string's thickness between the post hole and the top of the bushing. So after even less than a single wind the string is literally touching the bushing which it shouldn't do. You might get away with a couple of winds on the high G, B, or E strings without it touching the bushing, but on the wound strings it will pretty much be touching the bushing right away. I can take pics tonight of what I'm talking about.

#4 User is offline   fenrisulfr 

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 06:14 PM

By the way I also use 10 gauge strings.

Huh... The headstock on the Wilshire is exactly 15mm. So that's consistent with Willy's find. I did compare the 27mm Gotohs side by side with the stock tuners and the shaft height on the stocks was clearly higher than the Gotohs, though all other dimensions were the same.

#5 User is offline   Whitmore Willy 

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 06:33 PM

As you already have the Gotohs you could (carefully) do a test run on the low E string.
If it works there you should be good to go.

Remember, I do not have a Wilshire so this is all speculation on my part.

Maybe others can be of more help.

Willy

#6 User is offline   fenrisulfr 

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 06:40 PM

View PostWhitmore Willy, on 21 January 2011 - 06:33 PM, said:

As you already have the Gotohs you could (carefully) do a test run on the low E string.
If it works there you should be good to go.

Remember, I do not have a Wilshire so this is all speculation on my part.

Maybe others can be of more help.

Willy


It doesn' work with the Gotohs, that's my point ;) I already did install one as a test on the low E-string and after half a wind it was already bottomed out on the bushing.

#7 User is offline   jonnyg 

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 08:34 AM

I've got the 66 worn Wilshire same as yours and I've got a Telecaster with Klusons. The headstock thickness of both is virtually identical (within a fraction of a millimetre, I don't have any fancy measuring tools) However, The Wilshire heads are about 2mm taller than the Klusons. The difference between the machine heads is that the Wilshire heads are fixed with a nut and the Klusons just have a plain push in bush and that may account for the 2mm difference. I would have thougt that the Klusons would be OK but they would alter the angle of the strings to the nut.
Incidentally, either I've been lucky or you must have been unlucky as the heads on my Wilshire are as close to perfect as I've ever had. I did have to do a little work on the nut slots to stop the strings sticking though.

#8 User is offline   Fadedepi 

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 07:48 PM

From Stew Mac, Schaller M-6 tuning machines #0645.
Faded...
[attachment=2288:scan0003.pdf]
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#9 User is offline   fenrisulfr 

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 06:51 PM

View Postfadedepi, on 22 January 2011 - 07:48 PM, said:

From Stew Mac, Schaller M-6 tuning machines #0645.
Faded...
Attachment scan0003.pdf


Thanks for all the responses everyone. It turns out I had a "perfect storm" type situation where the stock tuner on the Wilshire that I swapped out was a little higher than the others, and the Gotoh that I used to replace it with, was a little shorter than usual. I finally got around to doing some measurements and the rest of the tuners were ok. So I ended up getting a set of Grover Mini Rotomatics and they were a dead drop-in replacement! I might add that I did try a set of the GFS "6 on a plate" Kluson clones and it wasn't even close; the first and last tuning posts were nearly a 1/4" off. Not that that's a big surprise, but noted here for the record.

A caveat is that the 6 on a side Grover Mini Rotomatics don't come in a nickel finish, so it won't match the rest of the hardware on this guitar. Weird thing is that the 3 on a sides do. Go figure. Fortunately for me I'm swapping out all the hardware anyways.

I also just installed a GFS Liverpool Minitron in the neck position. A definite improvement over the stock pickup. A very similar sound, just more clarity and definition. I tried a GFS Fat Mini in the bridge position but I didn't like it. I was hoping for more output but it was more or less the same type of sound as the stock bridge pickup, again just a little more clarity. So I sent it back in exchange for a GFS HOT Liverpool Minitron for the bridge. We'll see how that goes.

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