E-minor7
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Posts posted by E-minor7
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Apart from 2 classes at 14, I never took lessons.
Had the feeling the trip would be more satisfying without it - slower maybe, but grander. Like climbing Everest, , , , without oxygen-gear.
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I'll continue to believe in the diffences for quite a while - but when I say rose, it could just as well be ebony. Wood is wood is wood.
"A rose is a rose is a rose"
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Gertrude Stein
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As said, I might try to find some.
Already upgraded from plant-plast to bone (tea with honey dyed bone as we're talkin' H-bird).
Enjoy -
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Absolutely interesting -
And yeps, you're right about them rosies keeping the riiing down - I typically use them if mids are too boomy or trebs too sharp.
Now tusq could be in the periscope - still you don't mention the improvement in detail.
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I replaced my double saddle insert Saturday nite and put the ceramic back in. Much louder and better sounding than before (maybe the new maple bridge plate is getting the vibe), but also a bit too sharp in the trebs. Will experiment further.
You should post some pics of the vintage Bird. And even spoil us with an audio test.
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An ever interesting topic. To me there's no mystery in wood sounding softer than bone or ceramic. It's the logic of the materials.
If you like the mellower voice of the rosewood, fine. A good choice and all up to the player. No truth regarding taste.
Keep it if as it is, but don't avoid further experiments up the road -
Tusq.
'Old vase' ivory.
Wood insert w. normal sized bone saddle.
Ceramic (which probably won't suit you).
More than once I have posted a pic of a double version used in my 1963 SJ.
High E and B all wood - the other 4, bone in wood insert.
See if you can find it, if interested.
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Love Donovan! Jimmy recently played a show with him, I soooo wish I could have been there for that!
I was there - the roof got blown off the Albert Hall when Jimmy went on and straight into Sunshine Superman.
The sound of the ground source itself -
On of the bigger moments in my old beat book.
The pic is from the low-furniture Oriental inspired section. The original sitar player was there - Shawn Phillips. One of the first in western music.
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Are you there Jinder -
There's not much more story to tell, unfortunately...I was recording a song called 'In A Heartbeat' during my time with Sony BMG, and the label didn't like the recording of the song that I'd put down in my regular studio, so sent me and my full operation (producer, band, the lot) to RAK to spend a few days re-recording it there.
I was doing some guitar tracking using my Hummingbird, but it wasn't gelling right with the rhythm part which was cut with a Martin D16RGT. We needed something bigger and brighter, so I pulled out my SJ200 but found it still wasn't quite right.
It was at that point that one of Mickie's daughters, who was around during the session, brought out the legendary J200 and handed it to me...I was aware of the guitar's history but I heard several more stories as the night wore on, and was so privileged and lucky to be able to spend some time with a real piece of rock'n'roll history.
After I'd finished tracking with it, I disappeared to the lounge/tea room and spent a few hours with the guitar whilst the engineer and my producer put some rough mixes together. I wrote a song, 'Memphis To Minnesota' with the J200 and was bewitched by it. It had lost its scratchplate at some point but was a beautiful golden honeyed colour and had the tone to match...one of the best sounding acoustics I have ever played.
Eminor7, of course RAK was a long-time hangout for Donovan, but I couldn't say which song/songs of his were cut with MMs J200. I can say, though, that the dry, warm and honky acoustic tone on 'Hurdy Gurdy Man' is very similar to that of the J200 from RAK...could it be...?
I spent some time with Donovan in 2009 when I was playing at the Midem festival in Cannes. We were sharing a bill, and hung out together for some time before I went on-what a lovely, warm and completely unpretentious guy he is. Plenty of time to chat and ask about my life and work, despite him being a legend and me being absolutely nobody in particular. His performance (solo, acoustic plugged into a Roland Jazz Chorus 120!) was incendiary too, he played with a gentle variation on the kind of fire and conviction usually reserved for teenagers in rock bands.
After 2 severe Sherlocks, I finally found out on which tunes Donovan played Mickey Mosts talked about 1960's J-200. In the cover-notes for the Mellow Yellow album it's said that Donovan remembers recording Sand and Foam and Young Girl Blues on the Jumbo. I actually just listened to the 2 tracks and especially on Sand and Foam one hears it's not the J-45. It's simply bigger voiced.
Now that album was recorded in the later half of '66 (while waiting to get the record-company-frozen Sunshine Superman released), which means the 200 must be a lighter braced model. That should explain the quality you had in your hands Jinder. It sounds good on the old takes and probably didn't get worse over the years.
The 2 songs by the way are splendid. My fav. might be # 1, but why not post the lyrics to the - for the teenage chicks of the times - slightly daring #2.
Young Girl Blues
It's Saturday night it feels like a Sunday in some ways
If you had any sense you'd maybe go away for a few days
Be that as it may you can't only say you are lonely
You are but a young girl and you're working your way through the phoneys
Coffee on all the milk's gone
Such a sad light and fading
Yourself you touch
but not too much
You've heard it's degrading
High heels all those car wheels
All the losers are groovin'
Your dreams such a strange scene
Images are moving
You put the coffee on and all the milk's gone
Such a sad light and fading
Yourself you touch
but not too much
Certain people tell you it's degrading
It's Saturday night it feels like a Sunday in some ways
If you had any sense you would maybe go away for a few days
Be that as it may you can't only say you're lonely
You are but a young girl and you're working your way
Through the phoneys
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There's not much more story to tell,
Another fine memory there.
Not much story to tell,, , , well, say that to an archeologist and you'll get a book. You know how they'll make a world out of a single chickens bone.
I surely would have liked a good chat with Mr. Leitch. Nothing too serious (just a smaller troubadours exchange about the 50's beat turning to 60's revolt and how that influenced every corner of the 70'ties, that would be all).
And talking about chickens, see the Midem-meeting as a feather in the hat - a colorful one. Guess you do Jinder.
Anyway – I don't think it was Hurdy Gurdy Man that featured the 200. It was a bit earlier, but I can't yet find out. Think I read it in some cover-notes, but don't recall exactly where.
Gotta dive again - Have patience. . .
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When I was recording a few years ago at RAK in St. John's Wood, I had the privilege of playing the late Mickie Most's '60s J200 which Jimmy Page used to double-track various acoustic parts on IV, including the fast-paced acoustic-heavy section of Stairway.
That guitar was amazing-it sounded unspeakably beautiful, tune-o-matic and all.
A great fan of stories like that, , , , and of Mickey Mosts work with Donovan.
We had a fleeting member here who had played or met Donovans blue/grey/purple Zemaitis - fascinating.
And talking of D. I think he recorded a track or 2 on the very 200 you mention. Would you know that, , , and of which song I speak.
Will try to look it up. . . .
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The original saddle was ceramic and wide. Although the plastic bridge is hollow, all of the hardware weighed 2.27 oz. So getting rid of that was good. The tone before was great, but the guitar would not intonate. Even if the plastic looks like it's in good shape, the slightest warping throws off the intonation. And after 50 years of 6 strings pulling, it can't stay straight. It also had a bit of "sitaring" on some strings. Has a good old James Taylor tone.
I expected to be thrown off by the new sound, and kind of was at first. But when I sat down, played it and got a feel for it, I noticed it had even more mojo. Seemed to be much happier with it's new duds. The tone was even, deep and resonant. And it's in tune up the neck.
The problem with the plastic bridge is you always ask yourself how much better it would sound with a rosewood one that is actually glued to the guitar. The answer is much better. As longs as you do it to exact Gibson specs, it's all good. If you want to play the guitar, change to the rosewood bridge.
Hep for the fast response.
As written in an earlier post, it was done on my '63 before I got it.
But very curious on the topic. For a long time wondered if there's a soft-like plast-side to those plastic bridges.
A dimension where the blend with the ceramic creates something special. . .
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I had Steve Grimes www.grimesguitars.com redo the bridge in custom Brazilian rosewood (to Gibson specs) with pearl dots, a bone nut and bone saddle. Now it has correct intonation. Replaced the first 7 frets and buffed it out a bit to bring out the finish, which was very lifeless. But the way the guitar sounds amazing, very even and thumpy.
Would it be possible for you to describe the difference. You said the plast was good and I understand this is too.
Bet many members here are curious to know.
I am 10 on a 10 scale.
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Do pins matter. . . .
Just replaced the G-string pin on 2 squares. I have a tendency to claw the G-string while playing a certain expressive fingerpicking style.
Especially the Bird-G sounds slightly boomy with 12's in that context. Up went the bone, down went the wood.
Do pins matter ?
Try it !
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Take a look at the 60s Hummingbirds and Doves -- lots of laminated backs and/or sides with solid tops on those.
Some people pay more than $1K for those, even now!
Now that we talk laminated back'n'sides, can anyone recommend a waterproof way to check if ones old Gibsons are laminated.
I know the common answer is to look at the wood-patterns from both sides, but mahogany is so fine grained (like small pine-needles) that I find that test method difficult.
Even more difficult it is to live with 3 vintage 'squares' without being sure of the materials.
1 kilo !?! , , , , have a nice Sunday Bay-watch :
http://www.ebay.com/...=item2a1f391b50
http://www.ebay.com/...=item2c665969ab
http://www.ebay.com/...3#ht_606wt_1037
http://www.ebay.com/...2#ht_597wt_1037
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Good Q. I thought they were the same. May be more or less true.
Will follow this thread with interest.
Rather foreign, yet 30 years drawn to the maple Jumbo as I am.
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Hey nilo.
Can't answer the exact Q. but I played one of the square shouldered Southern Jumbos from that series last summer and it sounded impressing. How about yours ?
Also I would like to know the scale-length of your Bird. The SJ was a long scale (25,5) - as you might know an original Hummingbird is shorter.
And why not post a handful of pictures. . .
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Sounds as if he uses the silk and steel strings that were very popular at the time, doesn't it.
They take a guitar somewhere else and can't be compared to bronze strings at all.
I used them a while as a young man in the '70's, but put them away and only re-tried a pair some 6 months ago after a 35 year break. Mmmmm, , , maybe for some special purpose - - had to take them off though.
Listen to Page's borrowed 200 – it is soft or un-crisp, if not dead in the bass register. The Jumbo deserves better.
I would like to hear from some witnesses from back when the s&s was introduced. Did people discuss them or just go after them like cats for warm milk.
Why was the acoustic players so turned on ??
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Somewhere I read that if you take bone, and smear it with brown shoe polish, tie it up in a rag overnight, that it will result in a dyed hue, tempering the white, and perhaps resulting in an aged or vintage look. I just did this with a bone strap pin, and it turned out to be the same odd color as the Bridge Pins pictured above. My wife said "how come they're pink?". Guess that means I'm going back to white.
Try bone in a strong cup of coffee or tea, , , with salt.
Let them be overnite and check next morning.
Still too white - Give the item(s) another 6 hours bath.
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you have to put the link in the middle there is nothing on yours
reply to this post and you will see the coding
Thank you, I know Greg. But the video just doesn't jump over on the page though it's cearly there on the 'sketch-board'. Really annoying.
Btw. the test-link sends me nowhere -
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Excuse me, I'm using this post an exercising ground for video posting. I have placed many videos in the past, but for some reason haven't been able for a long time.
The system fails me and it drives me nuts. . . . .
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Though I like the BobbyB's piece, I can't see how it should be useful as A/B in this dialog. It's wrapped in effects and though the deep end rings with plenty of bass-vitamins, this - as I hear it - isn't an example of the typical Hummingbird voice. I guess what you're trying to tell here is that the Prague-Bird wouldn't be able to provide the same strength. I don't know and won't advocate for a guitar I haven't tried (besides I'm aware your good ears).
In my opinion a better comparison would be this. Check it out -
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I think it's necessary to remember that a considerable percentage of the Birds simply don't say that much from birth. And they don't project the way f.x. 45's do, which can be seen as a bit of a mystery.
Looking back on these pages, it is possible to find my touch-downs on the topic. In different threads from last year you will hear me wonder where the dreadnaught power and bass is – and hear me ask about the semi-vague projection. Without making final judgments, I theorize – like EA did later – about the thick guard playing a role, , , or comment the lack volume by explaining it as if it did.
Today - a handful of months later - I know slightly more and excuse me guys, , , , I have to say that age matters. A certain number of these guitars need time to loosen up. In that process everything gets freer and both bass and overall voice increases. Still most Birds will be quieter than other dreads, amongst them Gibson slopes.
Several times I have called for new Bird owners to chime in and add their versions of getting to know this model. A few did. The majority very pleased and that's all fine, but I'm almost sure the bigger part of these HB's could be considered quieter than an average dread. Now that doesn't mean they are dead of course, no way. Still the topic is sensitive and highly interesting.
My Bird has changed a fair deal in my possession, that's for sure – so would the dull one in Prague if it got played up. Not saying it'll ever become an ace, but it would ease out and release other stronger energies over time.
Keep the posts comin' – we need to share and compare to get wiser.
The whole trip with my own will get a smaller review here when we reach the 1 year date in the early summer.
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There is something about that HummingBird tone that enthralls me.
Heard.
Would have said the same thing if I only had known the word enthrall.
Thanks - been looking for something in that area.
Learn quite a lot here.
Enthralling !
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I've got a 200 that I swapped out tusq for bone saddle and it sounded much better.
It'll soon be time for me to make this move. I've had it in mind for some time and look forward to it as a delicacy kept in the fridge for after midnite -
Still took a few months to "open up" all the way on the low end.Didn't you mention 18 month at some point. . . .
Tusq bridge pins, not too bad.......
in Gibson Acoustic
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I agree there might be a psychological factor – but that would count for a lot of other (guitar related) issues too. In fact generally in every thinkable field.
The reason I (and others) hear it while you don't could have to do with how close we listen in. I have noticed that sometimes the consensus about the level of nuance on these pages is deliciously fine and other times much more rustic – it varies from thread to thread, collective mood to mood. Some of us listen 'insanely' sensitive - which means severe feinschmeckeri - and have a good time doin' that, others exist on more 'normal' wavelengths. The schmeckeri can be too much, no doubt – ask anyone who has been working in studios how limits of sonic normality can slip into the mad for no real rational reason or purpose.
And apropos studios, there is one simple way to check the theme, isn't there. An A/B recording. Then again the strings change a hair when loosened and restrung – and nothing can be judged with a brand new set of steel, uuuuaahhh.
Important thing for the Board is to keep exchanging – many a statement will fly, but eventually a pattern might occur. Thinking twice, it's already there.