MichaelT

Especially if they use their guitars to play El Kabong

Are you relieved that it's not weight relieved or not relieved that it's not weight relieved? I read an article where the guy was saying that it wasn't weight relieved but it was light and that was due to them using lighter mahogany and a thinner maple cap. So, it kind of IS weight relieved, just not chambered. So, with less mass and less density, does it have the same sound, sustain and tone? The world may never know.

Not to continue with the necro equine battery but you (Bluesy) kind of started this thread and beating up on people and now resorted to real life threats? Not good, man. As John Mellencamp once sang, "Forget about all that macho **** and learn how to play guitar. Play guitar." That's what it's really all about, right?

So, let me get this straight. You have a guitar you love and you're praising it in at least two forums, its quality and sound and EVERYTHING about the guitar is awesome and blows away Gibsons and Les Pauls in particular. But, if it's weight relieved, you hate it and it's going back? If you couldn't tell before, does it really matter? Maybe to you it matters but can you really tell the difference? I don't recall anything about the 594 being weight relieved, FYI, but what if it is? Just play it and love it for years and don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff.

<sarcasm> So now you're knocking Fender... </sarcasm> Kidding! I'm enjoying reading and learning in the midst of all the other trolling and flaming and troll feeding and baiting. But, in the process, I did go out and try some different guitars so it was worth wading through most of the BS just to learn more about PRS and play a few. I've always loved learning and I've mostly been playing and not really learning about the different guitars and amps. I knew what worked well for me for a long time. People have such a wide range of knowledge, experience, opinions and facts. I'm enjoying time here.

It's an actual image and I've seen it before. It appears to be or have been for at least one model. There's no reason to throw around accusations of photoshopping because that's just not the case. Even on the PRS forums there's threads about this. And, another post from McMutt: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/120137-gibson-loses-out-to-prs/ That one's from 2 years ago. We get it. You like PRS. Cool. I like Gibsons and prefer mine over PRS as do some others here and elsewhere. Les Pauls have been weight relieved for a long time on many of their models and people still play them, love them, get good sound out of them and make good music. I love my 2017 LP Standard and it has the Ultra Modern Weight Relief and it plays and sounds like a Les Paul, weight relieved or not. My 2017 Tribute has the 9 hole weight relief and it sounds and plays awesome as well. Getting people to try PRS is definitely a good idea. I think everyone should play and test as many guitars as they can to decide the one they like the best. I've had great luck with my Gibsons since 1984 when I bought my first one and it's held up great all these years, plays fantastic and sounds amazing after all this time. I'm pretty sure there wasn't any weight relief in the '81 "The V" because it's a monster with mahogany back and maple top. My Les Pauls are about the same weight, although I don't have a scale to confirm that with. The problem here is that Bluesy/McMutt is coming to a Gibson forum, slamming Gibsons and praising PRS. Glad you love your guitar as much as we love ours. There's no need to knock one over another though. It's all opinion, choice and preference. There's not a PRS in the world that I'd have over my Gibsons, any of them and my mind isn't liable to change. But, I'll give new ones a chance from time to time and if I find one I love, I'll get it. There's no reason for me to choose a very expensive guitar that I just like, not love. I think many of us feel that way and that's where the rubbing of fur the wrong way comes into place with this thread. Glad you like your PRS guitars and I hope you get as much enjoyment out of them as I have my Gibson for three decades. Rock on! Or, blues on, country on, jazz on, whatever!

He's definitely not just making guitars as a hobby. He's making lots of money. The pricetags he's putting on guitars is assuring that. I don't really care for his 594 Singlecut. It looks like a generic and not so great knockoff of a Les Paul, without the style and class. I'm looking forward to playing one though, just to see what I think of it. I think that since I've been playing Gibsons and one in particular for 33 years, nothing I play is going to compare to it in my mind.

I'm fairly certain that's one of the ones I played. However, I cannot say with any certainty that it was. It was one of the "top shelf" models with around a $4000.00 price tag on it and it was also locked and I had to have someone get that one down, and one or two to its left. I think they were all over $3000. I can honestly say that I didn't like any of the PRS guitars as much as I love my two Les Pauls and my two Flying V's, all Gibson. I'm not saying it sucks or that Gibson blows them away. I have my preference and the PRS didn't cut it for me. They're nice but my 2017 Standard was the best guitar I played all day that day. That being said, I set up my guitar the way I like it and since the PRS guitars were at Guitar Center and probably came straight out of the factory without any setup, that could be why I wasn't impressed. Maybe there is room for improvement after being set up. I wouldn't give any of them a bad review, just not a glowing review. However, since I didn't actually pay a whole lot of attention as to which models I played and I don't recall you mentioning in your original post which model it was that had you so impressed, I'd be willing to give it another go. I'll never pass down an opportunity to play a guitar, any guitar. If and when I do play one, I'd be happy to post my review. Like I said, I'm not saying that any of the PRS guitars I played weren't good. They just didn't appeal to me. And, don't even get me started on John Mayer. He may be famous but his guitar playing, that I've heard, does nothing for me. My wife has said the same thing about his playing. Granted, I've not heard all his work but I wasn't particularly impressed by him either. He can play but I don't think he's any better than me. Funny thing is, out of all the guitars I played, a little Fender MIM Telecaster was the best out of all of the ones I played at the various stores. It very much surprised me with the way it played and felt. Had I been truly shopping and not just playing, that guitar would have went home with me. It may still come home with me after I play it a few more times. The Les Pauls I played and the Flying V were great but I already have those, so I was mostly testing out other brands and models and that little Tele made the grade and I liked it better than the American made Tele right next to it. We won't talk about how a Goldtop Les Paul Classic would have went home with me if I wanted to spend the money on it but didn't. I can't remember what year it was but it was definitely a nice guitar too. I'll let you know if I played a 594 or get the chance to and will give my honest opinion. Glad you're happy with yours because agree or disagree, we're all musicians here and all have some love of the guitar. If you're happy with yours and making music playing it, great. I'll do the same as will others here and we can agree to disagree whether or not PRS is blown away by Gibsons or Gibsons are blown away by PRS. It's an age old argument and it's all opinion based. Gibson vs Fender, Hendrix vs Van Halen, etc, etc.

So, after a foray to Louisville to play a few PRS guitars, a few Les Pauls of varying ages, a Flying V, some Strats and Teles, it was an entertaining trip! I went to Guitar Center, just because of their variety. I also went to Do Wop Shop and Guitar Emporium as well. Just because I hadn't played some PRS, I played a few lower end ones, a few used ones and a few higher end ones. I didn't play a single one that felt as good as the four Gibsons I own, although a 2004 Les Paul Custom came close, if it didn't have bent bridge posts and a few cracks in the finish around the post holes. Apparently it got dropped or abused fairly hard. The PRS felt like the Fender necks. Most of the tops were pretty and they played alright, not terrible. I didn't nitpick over the finish on them, nor really looked all that close. I buy a guitar for its playability and whether or not I like the feel. I can tell in just a few minutes whether or not I like them. After playing and hearing the PRS, I didn't care for them all that much. They were ok but I didn't feel that they warranted that high of a price tag. My Les Paul Standard was the best guitar I played that day, with a used Fender Telecaster coming in a close second. It was a well put together guitar, setup well and sounded and felt great. They also had a 61 Melody maker and a 64 Strat that were awesome. I didn't get to play them but I did take a look at them. The 89 V was pretty awesome as well and I was tempted but the price tag and the fact that I already have a couple of V's, I didn't buy it. So, for me, PRS didn't make the cut and I probably played 9 or 10 of them. That's my personal opinion and preference and I'm in no way saying anything bad about them. There was one really pretty dark brown colored one, great flame and all but I didn't care for the sound of it that much. So, my opinion is after about 5 hours of playing various guitars, I still like my Gibsons the best, with a couple of Telecasters coming in after those. There was a really pretty Taylor that caught my eye but the store was closing and I didn't get a chance to play it. Had I been seriously shopping and buying, they'd have probably stayed open. So, my opinion is that I don't think PRS blows Gibson away and that's after giving them serious consideration and playing time. I think they're pretty nice guitars but not ones that I will be purchasing. I also won't be trolling the PRS forums but at least now if I'm asked, I can give an honest opinion.

If I understand what I read, they just made them that way for a while and that's how they make the Traditional or it's truly a flaw? My Standard isn't like that.

So, after all this entertainment, does anyone have a picture of this finish or binding issue this guy is talking about? I'd like to see it on my Les Paul. Or is this "defect" only on Traditional or Historic ones? I wouldn't have wanted to buy an expensive guitar with an obvious defect or flaw. I get that but trolling at least two boards apparently numerous times under various names is a bit silly and either stupid, immature or trolling. Later today we are going to Guitar Center and I'm going to check out a PRS and see what I think. So help me, if there's just one flaw... :D

Now this is funny. In my 36 years experience of playing guitar, I also learned spelling and grammar along the way. I think this guy is 21 at best.

The moderator over at the PRS forums apparently had enough of his nonsense as well and locked the thread saying: "Ok, that's probably enough bashing for now. Besides, it's a bit unseemly to use a company sponsored forum to denigrate a competing company. Let's return to talking about PRS guitars." I wonder if he's going to hit Fender or Ibanez forums next? Silly trolls.

I'd be interested in playing one to check it out. I don't care a lot for the looks either but I'm willing to give it a chance. I don't think it's going to compare to any of my Gibsons but that's just speculation at this point. Edited: I just went to the PRS site and I'm not liking the looks either. If I want a guitar that looks like a Gibson, I'll get a Gibson. If I want a guitar that looks like a Fender Strat, I'll get a Fender Strat. But, I hope to play some this weekend and see what I think. I drive my wife crazy when I take a guitar off the rack, touch it, hold it, then put it back without playing it.

I've never actually picked up a PRS to play it. So, question for those people who have, how do they compare, dollar to dollar to a Les Paul? A $3000.00 Les Paul vs a $3000.00 PRS or whatever the top of the line is for each? Santana makes them (PRS) sound good but then again, it's Santana and he made a Les Paul sound good too. So, rather than feed the troll, what's other people's opinions of them? Are they everything he's saying? I like my Gibsons a lot but I'm just curious as to how good the PRS really is? I've just never had the desire to pick one up and try them out but I'm sure others here have checked them out.

All four of my Gibsons are awesome. Sorry you had a bad experience. Gibson states on their website: "AA-grade flamed maple top: Beautiful top with just the right amount of flame for an authentic vintage look" I do find it odd that Gibson would send you 3 different guitars, each with the exact same flaw. Are you sure the store wasn't pulling a fast one and giving you the same guitar each time? Did you check the serial numbers for each? For that kind of price, I'd have bought this: http://www.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/2016/Custom/Standard-Historic-1958-Les-Paul-Standard.aspx But, glad you're happy with your PRS. Sorry you had a bad run. Good luck.

We were watching Axxess TV a few weeks back and REO Speedwagon was in concert and they played "Tough Guys" off the Hi Infidelity album. It was a newer concert after Gary Richrath died so they had a different guitarist. Well, my wife thinks it's funny when I hit an artificial harmonic and make the guitar "squeal." She'll laugh and go "squeal!" So, the guitarist played the song and I complained about him not hitting the "squeals" the way Gary did on the album, so I brought it up on YouTube for her to hear. So, for fun, I decided to "re-learn" the song because I had played it long ago, paying great attention to the "squeals" in the song. She came home from work and I played along with the album, hitting all the squeals like the album. She got a kick out of it and had me play the song three more times. Not a hard song but definitely fun to play and working to hit the right artificial harmonic, right tone at the right time. Before that was Hangar 18 by Megadeth because my oldest son wants to learn how to play it. It'll be a few years before he'll be able to play it fully but he likes the fact that he can play the intro chords to it, at least.

I certainly don't think people, even here in the US, feel that way about everything. I'm fairly certain most of us have things made in all different countries throughout the world. A lot of Americans do take pride in their work and creating things or doing things. For a great many, it's just another job to get money. As far as guitars go, I'm going to continue to buy Gibson guitars made in the US because I've had such great luck with the ones I have. But I also have a Sony TV, Samsung TV, and all kinds of other major appliances and electronics quite possibly produced elsewhere in the world. I quite like my Samsung TV and phone over other US made products. Good quality is good quality, regardless of where it's made, in my opinion. You'll certainly find people in the US who have the holier than thou attitude and will only buy domestic made products. I'd think that's a fairly small minority these days. The issue is that many of those folks are fairly vocal about their beliefs as well. I do think that the Gibson guitars I own are superior to other non-Gibson, non-USA made guitars though. Why? Because they're mine and I love them. There's probably "better" guitars out there in the world but mine will always be the best to me. That being said, I've also played some USA made Les Pauls and other Gibsons that I didn't care for at all, including an R0. That's the difference between my opinion and the truth. Truth can be proven by fact and not just hearsay and opinion. Does a Ford break down more than a Toyota? I don't know because I've never owned either but I'm sure there's actual data out there. What a lively discussion.

From what I understand, a lot of it has to do with the sweat, acid and oils in your skin. Apparently mine is a bit higher than average, according to a luthier friend back in the 80's. The bridge on my 81 Gibson V was replaced around 1990 or 1991 and is almost due again for replacement. It's from resting the hand on the bridge while muting the strings or generally placing the hand there. It's kind of like replacing the brakes on your car. Perhaps some of that wear can be minimized by wiping it off after playing. I'm not sure because it didn't seem to work very well for me. All I know is that 3 or 4 hours on a stage under hot lights and sweat has caused wear on my bridge, tailpiece and on the top of the guitar where my arm would rest and rub against. That and a few hours a day, every day, playing it. My bridge never had the double string slot like these pictured though, just a lot of wear. Same with the frets too. It stays perfectly in tune and the intonation is great but a few more years of playing will do it in eventually and I'll have to replace it again on that guitar. Hope that answers your question, cheez.

The weight of my Tribute, which is 9 hole and my Standard with the ultra modern weight relief seem to be about the same weight. I haven't put them on a scale to test. Pip, or anyone else, what is the average weight of an R-I/Traditional, a Classic, Standard, etc? Mine seems to be fairly heavy but I have not weighed them. I just wonder if there's an average. I'm fairly certain you're going to say that they vary wildly from 9 to 15 pounds but just thought I'd ask.

Not having a neck break is definitely a good thing. Many of us here use Photobucket to upload our pictures to and then link to them. Instructions can be found here: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/11005-sticky-how-to-post-photos/ We definitely don't want folks to have to take pictures down. I'm glad you got some money back and don't have a guitar with a broken neck. Do you still love the guitar after all that?

My 81 "The V" is pretty heavy. I'm not sure how heavy it is but it feels heavier than both of my Les Pauls, one with ultra modern weight relief, the other with classic weight relief. The V has no weight relief at all. The 2007 V is really light comparatively. It's not a problem with me now but if I were playing more often and for more hours on stage at my age, I could see how it could become an issue. I use (and have always used) wide leather straps to compensate for the weight. The newest one I am using is from LM straps and is wide and has a bit of cushion built into the strap. https://lm-products.myshopify.com/collections/luxury-leathers/products/the-heritage?variant=968368571 I often stand and play with it on for an hour or two at a time and it helps distribute the weight of the guitars.

I could definitely understand the frustration. I know when I was shopping for my 2017 Standard, I looked at a few both online and at a couple of stores. The one I ultimately chose was because in my eyes it was beautiful, had high quality constructions and no issues. After playing it and finding the issue with the PCB, I got the part replaced. Another Bourbon Burst came into the same store and it's a totally different (and unique) top from what mine was. In my opinion, when I pay that much money for a high quality guitar, I expect it to be near perfect for a brand new guitar. After all, they've only been making Les Pauls for 65 years. The different tops give them different characteristics but I would hope for everything else to be functioning and put together well. People aren't perfect and everyone makes mistakes but you'd think QC would catch major things before they go out the door. If not, why are we expected to pay a premium price? It seems like the complaints are fairly low but we sure seem to hear about the ones that aren't perfect more than the ones that are near perfect.

My 81 V doesn't have any problems with the finish, no cracking, checking or anything like that. It has lots of wear from being played a LOT for 33 years (when I bought it) but no issues with the paint, finish, whatever, other than where I've banged it on something or something like that. 36 years old and no major issues from the factory. It seems someone cranked down the pots when it was made at the factory. I think I'll go home and make sure mine are tight but not too tight. I wouldn't think you'd have to double check things like that on a guitar that costs a few thousand dollars. But, they're made by people and people aren't perfect. Perhaps Gibson had a bodybuilder working for them during those years and he (or she) overcranked them.

Someone wants to delete their Historic Collection? How horrible! Don't let them be deleted. I'll take 'em!