texasflood_dk Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Hello All. After a long time search, I finally got hold of a vintage Gibson ES model. Initially I was looking for a vintage ES-335 but I managed to include a '89 Fender Esprit I have had for sale for some time, in a trade for a nice vintage '78 ES-347. According to the SN it is made in 1st Dec 1978 and is the 39th ever made. It is 100% original with Gibson series VII humbuckers (aka Dirty Fingers) and case. But one thing puzzles me.. The headstock and sides of the body is somehow covered with a thin layer of some sort of brown goo. It is not hard as lacquer and I can rub it of gently using a fingernail. I would think it is some kind of conservation of some sort. See pictures. Does someone here knows what this is and maybe how to remove it gently ? Cheers TF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmis Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Hello All. After a long time search, I finally got hold of a vintage Gibson ES model. Initially I was looking for a vintage ES-335 but I managed to include a '89 Fender Esprit I have had for sale for some time, in a trade for a nice vintage '78 ES-347. According to the SN it is made in 1st Dec 1978 and is the 39th ever made. It is 100% original with Gibson series VII humbuckers (aka Dirty Fingers) and case. But one thing puzzles me.. The headstock and sides of the body is somehow covered with a thin layer of some sort of brown goo. It is not hard as lacquer and I can rub it of gently using a fingernail. I would think it is some kind of conservation of some sort. See pictures. Does someone here knows what this is and maybe how to remove it gently ? Cheers TF Hard to tell from pics, the nitro finish seems to be there even though heavily cracked on the headstock, maybe it´s tobaco smoke and beer from club gigs dried in over the finish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 First of all, Welcome to the Forum, Texasflood ! Secondly, a '78 ES 347 does not 'rate highly' in the Vintage Gibson echelon to many old-timers such as me. I am not saying that it might be a fine playing and sounding guitar....I don,t know? As far as removing the grunge....I would clean with Naptha and 2 or 3 grades of Meguires finishing compounds....If you want to go that route, I could be more specific. I have cleaned many nasty finishes....it takes time and patience and a good mind to follow through and get good results! If you want more details than just reply. Many are 'one-time' posters on this forum and never reply back....Jes Sayin'; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasflood_dk Posted July 23, 2013 Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 First of all, Welcome to the Forum, Texasflood ! Secondly, a '78 ES 347 does not 'rate highly' in the Vintage Gibson echelon to many old-timers such as me. I am not saying that it might be a fine playing and sounding guitar....I don,t know? As far as removing the grunge....I would clean with Naptha and 2 or 3 grades of Meguires finishing compounds....If you want to go that route, I could be more specific. I have cleaned many nasty finishes....it takes time and patience and a good mind to follow through and get good results! If you want more details than just reply. Many are 'one-time' posters on this forum and never reply back....Jes Sayin'; Thank you for your replies. Searching the internet also told me that the ES-347 is a hate / love model. Many people discard it because of the "dirty fingers" pickups which are high output ones not suited for mellow jazz. But there are quite a few I had found that have been successfull changing the PU's to Lollar Imperials, to make it sound more like a 335. My starting point that I have repaired the electronics so that it is wired as it was in '78 (because it wasn't when I first got it..) I will play around with it some time before changing anything. I am using a Fuchs OD50SLX amp which I am looking forward to tweak using this 347. Regarding the grunge: Before diving into removing it myself (andmaybe damaging it, I will take to a guitar workshop just to hear what they advice are. Or I maybe just leave it as it is - it is a vintage instrument. I can think of it as patina. What is then regarded high on the list of vintage Gibson echelon and for which reasons ? Cheers TF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Yeah TF, I think that the answer to your question would vary between people. To me, personally, most Gibson models made pre-'70/ pre-Norlin and made in Kalamazoo would be a starting point! Also, the main models that came from that factory. Take yours for instance. In the time period that I refer to, Gibson Made the ES-330, ES-335, 345, and 355. These models,to me, are more historically-speaking 'vintage' with Gibson than the later ES-347 which was a 'spin-off' from the 'original models' and probably made in Nashville! To take it further, a J-45 used to be a fairly consistant model. Someone said they had a J-45....you knew what it was! Since the late sixties the J-45 had morphed to square-shoulders for awhile and now, I bet there are 20 variations of the J-45 being sold. TV,Historic,flamed, quilted,workingman,various artist models, etc. I am not saying good/bad or right/wrong but just sharing some of my personal mindset. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasflood_dk Posted July 24, 2013 Author Share Posted July 24, 2013 I am not saying good/bad or right/wrong but just sharing some of my personal mindset. Cheers Retrorod, I appreciate you giving you point of view of vintage Gibsons. I think I am too much of a "Gibson ES-model newbie" to like one ES model over the other. I started out playing a stratocaster (still have it..) but as a big fan of Robben Ford I bought a '94 Fender Esprit Robben Ford signature model. The Fender Esprit models was a go from Fender to get a piece of the semihollowbody guitarmarket that Gibson has (and still have, I guess). As mentioned previously I initially has set my mind on a 335 model mostly because of it's popularity. I was "warned" about the Norlin era guitars when I read the book "The Gibson 335" by Adrian Ingram. I then tried a Gibson ES-325 from a friend and it really sounded great on my Fuchs. I can't say anything specific against Norlin era Gibsons but this one sounded great - for blues / rock that is. And this goes for my ES-347 as well. I know that the previous owner of my 347 was a musical teacher playing jazz music. It was fitted with other pickups when he owned it. I was told that he traded it for an ES-330. I guess this was to have a more acoustic sound. As I have understood, the ES-330 was build without the solid centerblock and had the trapeze stoptail, making it sound more acoustic. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Btw my 347 is made in Kalamazoo as written on the inside sticker. Cheers TF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Hey TF, You are correct on the ES-330...Hollow without center block...! As I said, there is no right or wrong.....take every guitar on its own merit. There are certain Gibson models that are very collectible and "Holy Grail", but they are as much myth as legend. The myth is perpetuated by the dollar value, which as in Real Estate is 'how much' one is willing to spend. I do not mean to 'diss' on your 347, but even as you conveyed, you really wanted a 335! Look up the vintage values on line and see what I mean. It matters not. Your guitar may be just as good as a '61 ES-335 but still not draw the attention or bucks that the '61 would command........ Its just the market, myth and legend and pedigree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I see the nut has been changed to a brass one - everyone thought brass increased sustain back in the late 70s. The goo looks like....goo....from here, possibly even nicotine stain. The guitar would look much nicer without it. Regards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasflood_dk Posted July 25, 2013 Author Share Posted July 25, 2013 I see the nut has been changed to a brass one - everyone thought brass increased sustain back in the late 70s. The goo looks like....goo....from here, possibly even nicotine stain. The guitar would look much nicer without it. Regards! The ES-347 model was build with a brass nut from the factory at that time. The guitar is all original now - I also rebuild the wiring back to original which it wasn't when I got it. I will try to remember to post some pics if/when I have the goo removed.. Retrorod. --------- I don't think you are dizzing my 347. I fully respect your opinion and I did specifically asked for your opinion regarding "real vintage Gibsons, myself :0) Cheers TF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasflood_dk Posted July 26, 2013 Author Share Posted July 26, 2013 Today I carefully tried to remove some of the "grunge" on the binding on the side of the body and on the binding on the headstock. And it did come off using alcohol on a cloth (and patience..). It is merely dirt gathered from years of use without cleaning. I think it takes alot of patience to clean the whole guitar myself in order not to damage the original surface. Cheers TF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Try Naptha (lighter fluid) if available . It may be called 'white spirits'.....NOT Vodka..... I agree ....it is just another man's grunge!!!! Get rid of it and start your own..... I can tell from the pics, that the guitar will have a wonderfull, "polished patina" when cleaned properly like I would do.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twang Gang Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 35 years of grunge is enough. Take the time to clean it up and it will look great and maybe even sound a little crisper. You don't have to do it all at one time, work on it gradually and I think you will enjoy the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 35 years of grunge is enough. Take the time to clean it up and it will look great and maybe even sound a little crisper. You don't have to do it all at one time, work on it gradually and I think you will enjoy the result. [thumbup] I like that, TGang, It maybe will sound a little 'crisper'.... Great anology and audio/visual...... I am like that with the really 'nasty' ones....I have to give a thorough 'original cleaning' while setting it up with new strings. Then, after several weaks or months, I will clean more thoroughly on the next string change ! It is a 'Beautimous thing'.....that ,what you end up with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasflood_dk Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 Yesterday I ordered some Virtuoso Guitar Cleaner & Polish. This product is made special for guitars with nitro cellulose lacquer. When it arrives I will give it a try and see how it works. I will post some photos (if) when all done with it. Thank you for your replies to this thread. Cheers TF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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