First Gibson Restoration

[Ryanvegas]

Hey guys

 

First post here

 

Never owned a gibson till the other day and it's just been a great to play.

 

I believe it is 1975 gibson les paul deluxe standard.

 

I've attached pictures, in your opinion what should I have payed?

 

The tuners are Schaller? And not original, there is a good ding on the neck but surprisingly it does not affect the playability whatsoever and actually looks really neat, the previous owner took it to an authorized gibson tech to get it to where it is now, which IMO he did a great job.

 

The tone and volume knobs have some splits in them cause of the age, and there is one aftermarket knob which I am replacing with an original (is it 2 volume 2 tone usually or???)

 

Neck is pretty straight, ofcourse it is very dirty and there is various marks and wear and year but anyways I want to put this in the most VALUABLE condition, to you guys that know your stuff......what might that be? Leave it dirty and etc or clean it up? What to use? Etcetc

 

Thank you so much for any input and I look forward to it!

[Ryanvegas]

here is a link to pictures in a photo bucket library

 

http://s104.photobucket.com/user/rocker777x666/library/gibson

[cjsinla]

Personally, I would clean it up, take the dirt off. That problem on the back of the neck looks like it was caused by sitting in the case, like the finish was breaking down or oxidizing right there which then caused some of the finish to come off. I would get a Gibson case for it or put something between the neck and case there. Other guys can tell you what they use to clean their guitars with. I used to use Meguier's car polish for cleaning and polishing but i keep my guitars pretty clean now. Also, i prefer my finish to age over time and Meguier's will absolutely keep that from happening for the most part as it leaves a very protective covering.

[cjsinla]

here is a link to pictures in a photo bucket library

 

http://s104.photobucket.com/user/rocker777x666/library/gibson

 

It probably started as a Deluxe and was modified to look like a Standard, it cannot be both. The Deluxes had mini-humbuckers, Standards have full-size hum buckers. Some guys modified the Deluxes to have full-size hum buckers, maybe that's what you meant. The "Standard" covers can be bought after-market. Yours will look really nice after you clean it up. I've rarely seen so much gunk built up around the pickups, etc.

 

i assume yours also has the pancake body and neck volute. I had a 70's Les Paul with full-size hum buckers but never took it apart so I don't know if it was modified. Gibson did make some in the 70's, I wish I had it now, it looked like yours in terms of color and construction. I believe the ones with full-size pickups go for more money than the Deluxes.

[Ryanvegas]

This is the closest guitar I could find like it, pretty much the exact same guitar?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261456196614

 

 

Anyhow there's so many cleaning and polishing products out there I just want to know the one that won't devalue it?

 

Kinda like if you find an old pistol and you clean it the value is cut in half just because collectors like that kinda stuff and I wouldn't want to do something like that, it plays so well, I tried out some of the 2014 les Paul's standards and it doesn't compare whatsoever and this guitar isn't even really set up all that well and doesn't even have new strings, it's great. What do you think the value of it is?

 

The hard case is not origins but that's okay. I don't want to shine it up I want to restore it and clean it and keep it's unique character

[pippy]

...I want to put this in the most VALUABLE condition......what might that be? Leave it dirty and etc or clean it up? What to use?...

Nice looking guitar.

 

Taking the easiest question first;

 

Any decent guitar polish will work.

Obviously the guitar is far from 'mint' so you are extremely unlikely to harm the value of the thing regardless of what you use - scouring pads excepted.

Take off the gunk. Wear & Tear and battle scars are readily accepted : filth isn't. Use a soft 100% cotton cloth for final polishing.

FWIW the biggest harm you could do to the guitar's value is to have it refinished.

 

Talking about the value; it really is a bit like 'how long is a piece of string?' and depends to a very large extent on originality.

Is it a Les Paul Deluxe re-worked to cater for the installation of full-size 'buckers or is it an original Factory Standard?

Many DeLuxes were modified - 'Standardised' as it were.

Not many 'Official' factory Standards were produced in '75. Accounts usually vary between 1 and 4 although special order Standards do exist.

In the first half of the decade there were over 30,000(!) DeLuxes made. The Standard, OTOH, was - as mentioned above - only made available with full-size p'ups to special order before '75. Gibson simply took a regular production-line DeLuxe body and routed it out for the bigger p'ups.

They were otherwise identical to the DeLuxe. A fair number of Standards were produced in this fashion but, obviously, nothing like the number of DeLuxes.

 

The hardware is also an area where originality counts for much in terms of value.

Swapped tuners are a common feature as are swapped p'ups. Bridges and stop-bars tend to stay put.

Even the plastic parts can affect the value if they have been replaced.

Your LP has been refretted but that's OK as it doesn't affect value to any great extent.

 

Once you know what you have and how original it all is then check out values on the web. Completed Sales figures from ebay are a good place to start.

 

P.

[cjsinla]

I believe you say the case is not original. I think your case is causing that damage to the neck, that something in that case is eating at the finish. I would replace the case just for that reason, not for any other reason. I don't believe that keeping an old case that is not original will help the value of that guitar. In fact, if the case is causing damage, it will cause a decrease in value over the long run I would guess.

 

Edited to add that I did some research and it seems that Gibson did in fact make a Les Paul Deluxe Standard in 1975.

[pippy]

Edited to add that I did some research and it seems that Gibson did in fact make a Les Paul Deluxe Standard in 1975.

Hi cjsinla.

 

Could you clarify that a bit, please?

We both know there were DeLuxes offered with full-size buckers before the 'official' return of the Standard proper. I believe they even came with a 'DeLuxe' inscribed TRC.

Is this what is being referred to as a DeLuxe Standard? And where did you find mention of it? Was it an official (Gibson) or unofficial (for convenience) title, do you know?

 

 

Thanks in advance!

 

And +1 on dumping the case ASAP.

As you say it's slowly destroying the finish. Not a Good Thing any way you look at it.

 

P.

[cjsinla]

Hi cjsinla.

 

Could you clarify that a bit, please?

We both know there were DeLuxes offered with full-size buckers before the 'official' return of the Standard proper. I believe they even came with a 'DeLuxe' inscribed TRC.

Is this what is being referred to as a DeLuxe Standard? And where did you find mention of it? Was it an official (Gibson) or unofficial (for convenience) title, do you know?

 

 

Thanks in advance!

 

And +1 on dumping the case ASAP.

As you say it's slowly destroying the finish. Not a Good Thing any way you look at it.

 

P.

 

Pippy,

 

It was on a Les Paul forum. If they are original, they are apparently pretty rare.

 

Forum link

[rct]

It's a pretty beat up 75 deluxe. Even if it is the uber rare(aren't they all) Deluxe Standard, I wouldn't plan on retiring off it. It's a great guitar, play it and enjoy it.

 

rct

[pippy]

It was on a Les Paul forum. If they are original, they are apparently pretty rare...

Hi there cjs. Thanks for the link.

 

Yes, as it says in post #5 in the link it seems to be the title given to those Deluxe's which were fitted with 'full-fat' p'ups to special order.

In the article posted in the thread the copy just states 'Les Paul Standard'. Does that mean the term 'DeLuxe Standard' is a recent invention to differentiate these instruments?

I knew that some had a Deluxe TRC but in the link shows one (first time I've seen it!) which has the Les Paul Deluxe transfer in the 'oval' but a Standard TRC. Cool!

 

P.

[L5Larry]

OK, before too much hearsay and misinformation gets propagated here, let me chime in with a few facts.

 

Let me explain my first hand knowledge on this subject. I own a 1975 Les Paul Standard, just like the subject of this post and the one in the e-bay link. I bought it brand new and it's provenance is 100% documented. It went from Kalamazoo to Mel Bay to me.

 

These guitars are "Standards", as defined by the factory installed full size humbuckers. A "Deluxe", of course, is define by mini-humbuckers, all other specifications of the two models are exactly the same. There is not, and never was, an "official" designation (by Gibson, or their dealers) of a model called "Deluxe Standard". In fact, this is the first time I've ever heard that term used, but.... I can see where it came from, let me explain.

 

This controversy all stems from the waterslide decals used for the serial numbers on Gibson guitars from the 75-77 era, which had the model printed on them. When Gibson started building production model Standards again in 1975, they had no "Standard" SN decals and simply used "parts-on-hand", and applied "Deluxe" SN decals. They did in fact differentiate the model with a "Standard" TRC.

 

As with any manufacturing operation, start-up of a "new" model is slow and taken in stages. The "Standard" didn't even appear in the Gibson Dealer Price List until June of 1976, but production and shipping started in late 1975.

 

Here's some photos of mine.

 

 

[rct]

You guys are killing me. Every decent music store had a "Fast Eddie" in the back turning the what was it? 20 THOUSAND deluxes into regulation humbucker'd(usually Dimarzio) Les Pauls. Seriously.

 

rct

[pippy]

There is not, and never was, an "official" designation (by Gibson, or their dealers) of a model called "Deluxe Standard". In fact, this is the first time I've ever heard that term used...

Yes, I'd never come across the designation either, Larry, which is why I requested some clarification by cjs earlier on.

It does seem to be an unofficial term coined (recently?) by folks describing these pre-official re-introduction 'Standards'.

 

...Every decent music store had a "Fast Eddie" in the back turning the what was it? 20 THOUSAND deluxes into regulation humbucker'd(usually Dimarzio) Les Pauls....

Ah, but the "important" bit here, rct, is that so did gibson....

 

 

P.

[rct]

Yes, I'd never come across the designation either, Larry, which is why I requested some clarification by cjs earlier on.

It does seem to be an unofficial term coined (recently?) by folks describing these pre-official re-introduction 'Standards'.

 

 

Ah, but the "important" bit here, rct, is that so did gibson....

 

 

P.

 

I think the important bit here is that everyone everywhere believes and thinks they have found some ultra rare one of 5 or 6 guitars made in the third week of June, 197(fill in the year). Fact is, they haven't. It's a Les Paul, a fairly beat up one that isn't in great shape. I would not want any of my Les Pauls from back then back, I would put the money to a more recent year, better condition, "prettier" Les Paul. Honestly, I think most of us that actually played them back then and let them go as we moved along in the guitar world would think the same. It isn't worth a fortune and never will be, and I think it is unfair to encourage and promote the idea that it is or could be. In the absence of any overwhelming documentation like, as usual, Larry has, I remain always the skeptic and would have advised the original buyer to pass.

 

rct

[L5Larry]

these pre-official re-introduction 'Standards'.

 

There was nothing "pre-official" about these guitars, they are just the earliest production models made. The thousand or so batch run in the early 70's for Sam Ash/NYC I would call pre-official, but not these decal SN models. When describing my guitar, I am always very careful, and specific, to include the term "production model".

 

As for "Fast Eddie" in the back room cutting full size humbuckers into Deluxes, absolutely, thousands were modified that way. The thing is, this mod can not be hidden, as the overspray from the original finish in the p/u routes will have been removed in the process.

[pippy]

There was nothing "pre-official" about these guitars, they are just the earliest production models made...

Obviously I wasn't clear enough in my sentence construction, Larry.

 

I didn't mean the guitars themselves were 'pre-official'; or not, somehow, 'proper' factory Standards.

I simply meant that they were made prior to the official re-appearance of the Standard in the'76 catalogue as indeed you, yourself, mentioned in an earlier post.

 

I know they are Standards and always call them Standards.

In fact in my first post (#6) I refer to these guitars as either 'Standards' or 'Factory Standards' no fewer than five times.

 

Apologies for any misunderstanding.

 

P.

[L5Larry]

It isn't worth a fortune and never will be, and I think it is unfair to encourage and promote the idea that it is or could be.

 

Agreed 100%. As we all know the changes and cost saving measures of the 70's Norlin era, there is nothing, and never will be, anything extremely valuable, special, or collectable about these LP's. I guess "rare" or "unique" could be used to describe these mislabeled Standards, but rarely in any case does that equate to added value.

 

When the Standard was reintroduced in 75/76, us mere mortals could finally buy a "'burst" like the guitar gods were playing, or at least we thought. I bought mine as soon as I could scrape up enough lawn mowing and skate sharpening money ($500). I remember I had a choice of two to choose from at Mel Bay's retail music store. One was a darker brown sunburst, and the other was a lighter brown sunburst. I choose the lighter colored one because I thought it looked more like the 'bursts I'd seen on album covers and magazine photos.

 

Anyway, I got lucky. It's a great playing and sounding guitar, and I have had no reason over the last 39 years to even consider selling or replacing it.

 

Which FINALLY brings me to my point. Bang for the buck.... some of these mid-70's era Les Paul Standards can be great guitars at a really good price.

[cjsinla]

I had never heard of a Deluxe Standard either and just assumed someone had altered a Deluxe and put a Standard TRC on it. It may not be an official Gibson name but they do seem to be a product that Gibson was producing at one point as Larry says. I'm not saying it's really valuable but it might be worth more than a Deluxe from the same period but that is a guess.

[Ryanvegas]

Woah, didn't mean to stir anything up, I'm not saying I have some special rare guitar, just my friends dad passed away and he was the original owner and I bought it from him.

 

I can't say what I think it is considering I am no expert like you guys but I think this guitar plays incredible and has lots of character

 

What do you think the value is though?

 

And what do you guys think it should do with it besides clean it and play it?

 

Get some of the original tuners and put them back on?

I will update with pics of the pickup cavities and etc

[pippy]

Woah, didn't mean to stir anything up...

Nah, don't fret Ryanvegas. We're all good chums here.

And anyway; this is the sort of thing we like to chew over. I'm pretty sure we can all learn from stuff like this. I certainly do.

 

Apart from cleaning it and playing it? Nothing. That's what it's for.

 

Value? Still depends on what it is, I'm afraid, and also where you live.

A slightly beat-up modified Deluxe or a slightly beat-up Standard? The latter will be worth perhaps 50% more to the right buyer. Check ebay completed listings if you can find any.

Pics if the cavities should help sort out the question of originality.

Are you in the USA or the UK? In the UK the price for an original '75 Standard might be around 50% more than Stateside simply due to the smaller number of guitars available here.

If you want an accurate assessment places like Gruhn's Guitars offer a valuation service for a small(?) charge.

 

Original tuners would make it worth a little bit more but obviously you'd have to shell-out money to buy them and would you be able to recoup your outgoings?

Furthermore the original tuners were probably swapped out because they didn't keep the guitar in tune.

As your guitar is a 'player' and not a 'collector' you might be better off keeping the replacements.

If, at any time in the future, a buyer wishes to replace them with more 'period-correct' items I'd leave it up to them to sort out for themselves.

 

P.

[L5Larry]

This era LP has been selling for around $2000 for as long as I have kept track.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

Woah, didn't mean to stir anything up, I'm not saying I have some special rare guitar, just my friends dad passed away and he was the original owner and I bought it from him.

 

I can't say what I think it is considering I am no expert like you guys but I think this guitar plays incredible and has lots of character

 

What do you think the value is though?

 

And what do you guys think it should do with it besides clean it and play it?

 

Get some of the original tuners and put them back on?

I will update with pics of the pickup cavities and etc

 

In that condition, about $900-$1200 I would think.