capmaster Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 When about fine pickups and fine covers properly mounted, I guess the differences are measureable but inaudible. Most measurements are read with just the pickups connected to short leads which has to show remarkable differences. With a guitar cable added, even a high-quality one, those differences will melt down to some tenth of a decibel, some ten Hertz and some hundred Ohms, i. e. within the tolerances caused by several items of same type of guitar cable. Poor covers poorly mounted are a completely different story. They are infamous for causing both electrical sound deterioration and microphonics. This trouble is rather common with cheap pickups since decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 That's the reason I asked. I've never taken covers off or added them, so I have no direct experience to base an opinion on. Didn't do that, too, but there are several chrome covered, nickel covered and open coil '57 Classics in my arsenal, albeit on different guitars. Anyway, a cover affecting sound would cause a different reaction to volume and in particular tone controls. There's more of a difference between braided single wired and four-conductor wired pickups of otherwise same build. The definitely outdated extremely high capacitance of the traditional 1920's braided wire and its - in my opinion - bad contribution to tone makes tone unpredictable, too. When using braided wire in a Les Paul exclusively, with controls fully open you will get the tone of two to six times the length of your 6m or 20ft guitar cable, depending on HUMIDITY mainly, and on pickup selector position. Moreover, the cloth used as isolation significantly lags in wetting or drying out. When dry, the capacitance is only about a fifth of that when wet. I know it sounds like blasphemy, but the following is the naked truth from a quality standpoint, by the way confirmed by Donny's measurements some topics ago. Like many others, the late 50's Les Pauls achieve their electrical performance by the use of obsolete, inferior components combined with the poor 50's wiring. I have lots of inferior cables and three 50's tone circuits in my Gibsons though. ;) There's no other way for tone control wiring with two or more volume controls and just one tone control. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobF_ Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 Didn't do that, too, but there are several chrome covered, nickel covered and open coil '57 Classics in my arsenal, albeit on different guitars. Anyway, a cover affecting sound would cause a different reaction to volume and in particular tone controls. There's more of a difference between braided single wired and four-conductor wired pickups of otherwise same build. The definitely outdated extremely high capacitance of the traditional 1920's braided wire and its - in my opinion - bad contribution to tone makes tone unpredictable, too. When using braided wire in a Les Paul exclusively, with controls fully open you will get the tone of two to six times the length of your guitar 6m or 20ft cable, depending on HUMIDITY mainly, and on pickup selector position. Moreover, the cloth used as isolation significantly lags in wetting or drying out. When dry, the capacitance is only about a fifth of that when wet. I know it sounds like blasphemy, but the following is the naked truth from a quality standpoint, by the way confirmed by Donny's measurements some topics ago. Like many others, the late 50's Les Pauls achieve their electrical performance by the use of obsolete, inferior components combined with the poor 50's wiring. I have lots of inferior cables and three 50's tone circuits in my Gibsons though. ;) There's no other way for tone control wiring with two or more volume controls and just one tone control. Thanks Cap. I'm leaning towards the SD '59 & JB combo, with 4 wires. I'm building a 50s JP harness with 4 push/pulls to do single coils, series/parallel, and in/out of phase. I guess I'll need another guitar to put p-rails in :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobF_ Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 I forgot to mention that I also got a set of clear speed knobs for the maximum in tone transparency!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I forgot to mention that I also got a set of clear speed knobs for the maximum in tone transparency!! Like these here? They contribute nicely to the DiMarzio PAF and Seymour Duncan SH-5 Duncan Custom tones on my cheap 1980's Suzuki EL-600 "archtop" LP knockoff: [lol] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 i don't actually KNOW but i would expect there to be some difference, otherwise, what would be the point of covering and waxing them? You don't have to have a cover to have them potted. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobF_ Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 Like these here? They contribute nicely to the DiMarzio PAF and Seymour Duncan SH-5 Duncan Custom tones on my cheap 1980's Suzuki EL-600 "archtop" LP knockoff: [lol] Exactly like those. I got the idea from my PRS SE: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobF_ Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 Personalization is complete. SD 'Whole Lotta Humbucker' set. Man, these things sound great and they even sound like they belong in the same guitar together. These even sound good split instead of sounding like a wet, wool blanket was thrown over them. These are controlled by 4 push/pulls in the JP configuration. Coil splits on volumes, bridge tone controls phase and neck tone controls parallel/series. For cosmetics I added pointers and clear speed knobs and removed the poker chip from the pup select switch. I haven't decided for sure on the clear knobs, so they aren't pushed all the way on. Opinions on the knobs are welcome ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibsonKramer Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I like them, just not on your LP. I think they make it look kind of cheap, imo. Vintage Amber. Edit: while I prefer the chrome pups... always loved Seymour Duncan's. I think those came out looking pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobF_ Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 Yuch on amber ;) Now I have two blacks and two clears on. I think I'll end up with the stock blacks back on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibsonKramer Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Yuch on amber ;) Now I have two blacks and two clears on. I think I'll end up with the stock blacks back on Eh... to each his own. Though, if you're debating the black, then I'd go back to all black. :D Its got a nice spray on the burst and has some nice tiger-like striping in it also. My eyes are just drawn to those clear ones and not in a good way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobF_ Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 Eh... to each his own. Though, if you're debating the black, then I'd go back to all black. :D Its got a nice spray on the burst and has some nice tiger-like striping in it also. My eyes are just drawn to those clear ones and not in a good way. Yeah, they're both on for comparison ... I wouldn't leave it that way. Definitely going back to blacks. They look great to me on the PRS, but not so much with the finish on this LP. I forgot to mention the 106C Rotomatics ... love 'em So, this is close enough to call done!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundMaster Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Original post deleted by author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 ... and removed the poker chip from the pup select switch. ... Poker chip! This is a good one, never happenend to read this before. ... I think I'll end up with the stock blacks back on Same here, regardless if the pickups were open-coil or covered. I love chrome covers but left all of my uncovered pickups alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobF_ Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 Yeah, to me also, but it's hard to tell in a photo. I happen to like the black knobs on your LP. ...and I've mentioned more than once how much I like the color, spray and grain - you got a great one! But, get those chrome covers back on there! lol. I had a band mate who called the covers mufflers. Well, maybe. I can't notice a difference though. Some guitars look better with covers, some without. Very subjective. I love the look of yours better with the covers. ...and I'm glad you got the sound all worked out with your new SD p/u's! Thanks ... Yes, I would prefer covers, but the sound comes first and these things are fabulous. I doubt covers would do anything detrimental, these pups just didn't have them. I *think* I read somewhere that SD has covers available for their pups. I'll check into some day when I have nothing else going on :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobF_ Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 Poker chip! This is a good one, never happenend to read this before. Same here, regardless if the pickups were open-coil or covered. I love chrome covers but left all of my uncovered pickups alone. It was someone here that posted a pic of their LP without the Treble/Rhythm chip ... I can't remember who it was. I like the look better without - I just have to make sure I don't forget which is which :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundMaster Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Original post deleted by author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Sure, cap! 'Poker Chip' has been around for about twenty years or more over here in these parts. ...I always remove them from my Les Pauls. Mine are still there, on LPs as well as SGs. Acting as finish savers is their very sense in my opinion. I could't make another use of them since making music is my only way of gambling so to say. Sometimes I'm happening to hit the right notes the right time. I consistently work on increasing my share of lucky strikes in my personal guitar playing lottery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobF_ Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 OK, it's done. This is the last pic until another 'post a pic' thread starts :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibsonKramer Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 MUCH better. I actually like the uncovered pups (which wouldn't be typical) with everything back together... but it all matches/flows. Though, I'd put the poker chip back on. To each his own... to each his own, though. She's a beauty still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundMaster Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Original post deleted by author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobF_ Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 IMO, the chips endanger the finish that's underneath them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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