Serial # mystery

[SMN]

Hi all,

The guitar pictured here is stamped LG2...and from my limited knowledge, that checks out -- rectangular bridge, big pickguard, white bridge pins, seems like a 1962-ish LG-2.  However,  the serial # is 806241, which dates it to either 1966 or 1969, according to every serial # database I have checked -- but wasn't 1962 the last year of the LG-2?   Any idea what's going on?  A serial # error, maybe?  Or is it possible that Gibson made an occasional LG-2 after 1962?

Any help is much appreciated!

Steve

[slimt]

Its a 1962.   Gibson stopped making the LG2 in 62.  The B25 I believe was in its place after that.  

[QuestionMark]

40 minutes ago, SMN said:

Hi all,

The guitar pictured here is stamped LG2...and from my limited knowledge, that checks out -- rectangular bridge, big pickguard, white bridge pins, seems like a 1962-ish LG-2.  However,  the serial # is 806241, which dates it to either 1966 or 1969, according to every serial # database I have checked -- but wasn't 1962 the last year of the LG-2?   Any idea what's going on?  A serial # error, maybe?  Or is it possible that Gibson made an occasional LG-2 after 1962?

Any help is much appreciated!

Steve

Is that a left handed LG2?  Or, is the photo just reversed?

QM aka “ Jazzman” Jeff

 

[slimt]

38 minutes ago, SMN said:

Hi all,

The guitar pictured here is stamped LG2...and from my limited knowledge, that checks out -- rectangular bridge, big pickguard, white bridge pins, seems like a 1962-ish LG-2.  However,  the serial # is 806241, which dates it to either 1966 or 1969, according to every serial # database I have checked -- but wasn't 1962 the last year of the LG-2?   Any idea what's going on?  A serial # error, maybe?  Or is it possible that Gibson made an occasional LG-2 after 1962?

Any help is much appreciated!

Steve

the 60s guitars were the worst for serial numbers.  So inconsistent.     But now you look for changes in pickguard change,bridge change, logos if they had a dot or not.    nut width, even neck appearance, if they had a 4 piece including ears or 5 piece with the center stripe   . 

[SMN]

31 minutes ago, QuestionMark said:

Is that a left handed LG2?  Or, is the photo just reversed?

QM aka “ Jazzman” Jeff

 

It's a lefty! 

[SMN]

31 minutes ago, slimt said:

the 60s guitars were the worst for serial numbers.  So inconsistent.     But now you look for changes in pickguard change,bridge change, logos if they had a dot or not.    nut width, even neck appearance, if they had a 4 piece including ears or 5 piece with the center stripe   . 

Makes sense, slimt -- it checks out as a '62 on everything, apart from the serial number.  Thanks for the input!

[zombywoof]

Although tobacco bursts did occasionally show up on early-1960s LG2s, I would still expect a 1962  LG2 to have the more common cherry burst finish.  Also a '62 LG2 would have acquired a belly up ADJ saddle bridge.  But it is tough to make a call based on one photo.  A shot of the tuners might help to sort things out.

Edited May 7, 2020 by zombywoof

[SMN]

3 minutes ago, zombywoof said:

Although tobacco bursts were common on the early-1960s LG1s they did show up on occasion on the LG2,  But I would still expect a 1962  LG2 to have the more common cherry burst finish.  Also a '62 LG2 would have acquired a belly up ADJ saddle bridge.  I would almost suspect if an LG2 it has been refinished and had the ADJ bridge replaced.  But it is tough to make a call based on one photo.  A shot of the tuners might help to sort things out.

zombywoof, thanks for the info. Here's a (maybe not very helpful) shot of  *a* tuner and the serial #...tried to post bigger, clearer shot of all of them, but ran up against photo file size limit.

[j45nick]

The odd thing is, if the serial number were 80624, it would unambiguously be 1962 which is what the guitar looks like.  The "1" is even offset vertically. I haven't seen the embossing machine used for these numbers, so it isn't clear if this might have been a serial number mis-strike.

Edited May 7, 2020 by j45nick
spelling correction

[bobouz]

What’s the nut width?  If it’s 1-9/16”, you’ve got a mid-1965 or later.  If it’s 1-11/16”, the guitar was made before mid-1965.

If you have the skinnier neck & are in the later ‘60s, the rectangular bridge may have been used (instead of the adjustable) because it’s a lefty.

Also, double check to made sure it’s an LG-2 with X-bracing, as opposed to a ladder-braced LG-1.  Weirder things have happened!

[SMN]

59 minutes ago, j45nick said:

The odd thing is, if the serial number were 80624, it would unambiguously be 1962 which is what the guitar looks like.  The "1" is even offset vertically. I haven't seen the embossing machine used for these numbers, so it isn't clear if this might have been a serial number mis-strike.

j45nick -- that's a great insight.  I suspect you may have just cracked the code.  Thanks very much!

Steve

[bobouz]

39 minutes ago, SMN said:

j45nick -- that's a great insight.  I suspect you may have just cracked the code. 

That’s certainly a possibility, but the six numbers are directly centered - making it seem like it should be a six digit serial number.

The nut width will tell you for sure if your guitar is early or late ‘60s, and will essentially answer the question without room for doubt.

[SMN]

1 minute ago, bobouz said:

That’s certainly a possibility, but the six numbers are directly centered - making it seem like it should be a six digit serial number.

The nut width will tell you for sure if your guitar is early or late ‘60s, and will essentially answer the question without room for doubt.

Ah, got it bobouz...makes sense.  Unfortunately I'm working off of pictures sent to me by my nephew, but I'll see if he is able to measure the nut width.  Thanks very much for the help!

Steve

[slimt]

4 minutes ago, SMN said:

Ah, got it bobouz...makes sense.  Unfortunately I'm working off of pictures sent to me by my nephew, but I'll see if he is able to measure the nut width.  Thanks very much for the help!

Steve

Its either a 1 1/2  Wide nut or a 1 3/4 nut. Narrow nut is 67 68 69 era.   My 67 SJ has the skinny nut. Most B25s had the skinny nut. 63 4 5 had a wide nut 

[j45nick]

40 minutes ago, slimt said:

Its either a 1 1/2  Wide nut or a 1 3/4 nut. Narrow nut is 67 68 69 era.   My 67 SJ has the skinny nut. Most B25s had the skinny nut. 63 4 5 had a wide nut 

Not sure that is right.

In 1962, nut width should have been 1 11/16". Never seen one as narrow as 1 1/2", and 1 3/4 disappeared in late 1940's. Skinny nut of late 1960's should be 1 9/16".

[bobouz]

1 hour ago, slimt said:

Its either a 1 1/2  Wide nut or a 1 3/4 nut. Narrow nut is 67 68 69 era.   My 67 SJ has the skinny nut. Most B25s had the skinny nut. 63 4 5 had a wide nut 

Slim, for this guitar to have either of the sizes you mention would be an oddity.  Not saying it couldn’t happen, but it is well documented that LG & B-25 bodies typically had a 1-11/16” nut width up until mid-1965, and a 1-9/16” nut width for a number of years thereafter.

The most likely possibilities are that if it is truly an LG-2, it would be a 1962 (but as Zomby noted, it should be a cherry sunburst finish in ‘62).

If this instrument was made in 1966, it is not an LG-2, but might be an LG-1, which continued being shipped until 1968 (top bracing would confirm).  It in all probability was not made in 1969 (the other six digit serial number possibility).

Now here’s one more thought.  If this is indeed an LG-2, perhaps it was made in the early ‘60s, but being a lefty, remained at the factory until ordered by a dealer - then stamped with a serial number & shipped out in 1966.  Again, the nut width will tell us a lot & nail down the era.

A nice little head scratcher - please share more info when you can!

Edited May 7, 2020 by bobouz

[slimt]

28 minutes ago, j45nick said:

Not sure that is right.

In 1962, nut width should have been 1 11/16". Never seen one as narrow as 1 1/2", and 1 3/4 disappeared in late 1940's. Skinny nut of late 1960's should be 1 9/16".

Skinny neck , dont pay attention to the measurements.    .   I was working today  not paying any thought to what I had typed.  Sorry guys. 

[SMN]

Gentlemen -- thank you for your expertise and insights.  This was my first foray on this forum, and I have to say, I really appreciate your help.

Here's the rest of the story: the guitar was up for auction in Oregon, where my nephew lives:  https://oregon.hibid.com/lot/65191894/circa-1960s-left-handed-gibson-acoustic-guitar?q=Gibson&g=all-categories    He was interested in it, and asked what I thought of its value.   (Why didn't I just post the link earlier, with all those pics?  Because my nephew asked me not to -- he worried about directing more bidding competitors to the auction.)

So I looked into it, which led to the mystery: he visually inspected it, and saw "LG2" stamped on the interior...but that didn't match the serial number dating it as either a 1966 or 1969, the LG-2 having been discontinued after 1962.  So I initially ruled out an LG-2, even though that is clearly what it looks to be.  But the other candidates made no sense, either: neither the B25 not the LG-1 had rectangular bridges, their pickguards were often different, etc.  So I was stumped, and turned to you all.

I'm not sure which of your hypotheses is correct.  It certainly looks like a 1962 LG-2 (rectangular bridge, white bridge pins), so maybe the serial # is just off...but as Zomby pointed out, the finish would be something of a rarity for 1962.   j45nick's observation that the serial #, minus the "1" at the end (and that "1" is oddly placed, relative to the other digits), puts it squarely in the 1962 range -- that resonates.  But as bobouz noted, the centering/alignment of the serial # sure does look like it was supposed to be 6 digits long.   Maybe, as bobouz wondered, the fact that it's a lefty is key...perhaps it was made in 1962, but since lefties don't sell often, it hung around the factory until 1966 and got a 1966 serial number when it finally sold.

I have no idea.  As slimt and others have noted, knowing the nut width would help a lot -- sadly, I can't find that out, as my nephew didn't win the auction. (Last I checked,high bid was $1500, a bit rich for him.) 

Regardless of the state of the mystery's solution, one again I am very grateful for your help.  This seems like a great forum. I'm gonna stick around here.

Steve

 

[bobouz]

Steve, the pictures on the auction site pretty much tell the rest of the story.

The guitar is not an LG-2.  It’s a LG-1.  The defining characteristics that clarify this are the lack of a center back brace, and the single-ply binding on the top.

All additional characteristics of the body & finish conform to an LG-1, which remained in production into the late ‘60s - although a right-handed ‘66 model would have had a plastic belly-up bridge.

So either it’s a ‘66 LG-1 fitted with a lefty rectangular bridge, or it may possibly be an early ‘60s LG-1, which did indeed come with a rectangular bridge & batwing pickguard for a number of years prior to 1962.  Again, the nut width would clarify this.

One additional oddity is that the saddle is not at all resting properly in the bridge, and there’s a hint of an outline that suggests the bridge may have had a right-hand oriented saddle slot.  Essentially, something rather wonky is going on there.

As to value, an LG-1 is worth significantly less than the LG-2, as it’s ladder-bracing  is not as desirabe as the X-bracing on an LG-2.

Hope you continue to enjoy the forum!

Edited May 8, 2020 by bobouz

[zombywoof]

6 hours ago, bobouz said:

Steve, the pictures on the auction site pretty much tell the rest of the story.

The guitar is not an LG-2.  It’s a LG-1.  The defining characteristics that clarify this are the lack of a center back brace, and the single-ply binding on the top.

All additional characteristics of the body & finish conform to an LG-1, which remained in production into the late ‘60s - although a right-handed ‘66 model would have had a plastic belly-up bridge.

So either it’s a ‘66 LG-1 fitted with a lefty rectangular bridge, or it may possibly be an early ‘60s LG-1, which did indeed come with a rectangular bridge & batwing pickguard for a number of years prior to 1962.  Again, the nut width would clarify this.

One additional oddity is that the saddle is not at all resting properly in the bridge, and there’s a hint of an outline that suggests the bridge may have had a right-hand oriented saddle slot.  Essentially, something rather wonky is going on there.

As to value, an LG-1 is worth significantly less than the LG-2, as it’s ladder-bracing  is not as desirabe as the X-bracing on an LG-2.

Hope you continue to enjoy the forum!

 

That the guitar was an LG1 was my first thought given the bridge and tobacco  burst finish. I just assumed there was a model designation stamped inside. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by zombywoof

[zombywoof]

Those double line Kluson turner show your guitar was not built in the early-1960s.   While I cannot make it out clearly, if they read "Kluson Deluxe" it would date the guitar to 1966.       If they read "Gibson Deluxe" then the '69 date works although there was as was typically some carry over so you could not rule '66 out entirely.

Edited May 8, 2020 by zombywoof

[bobouz]

Nice catch, Zomby.  Assuming the tuners are original, that would make it a ‘66, since no LG-1’s were shipped after 1968.

Mystery solved!