Can you help me identify this Gibson acoustic?

[scott kurt]

I wan wondering if you could help me identify this Gibson acoustic that I found on reverb. It had a few things that seem inconsistent to me, but you would have much more insight that me.

 

It's a 2008 Southern Jumbo. It has a white label on the inside, it has the banner "only a gibson is good enough" but it does not have the script logo. 

 

Here is a link, any help would be appreciated!

 

https://reverb.com/item/37972725-gibson-southern-jumbo-vintage-sunburst-k-k-trinity-2008-lefty

[Dave F]

I can’t be sure but it looks like a std SJ with a 50’s style pick guard and script and someone added the banner and k&k. Looks to be a legit Gibson. I wouldn’t go over $1600  for it and would only buy it if returnable. May be a few more surprises.  They show the s/n so you could try to contact Gibson. 

[zombywoof]

12 minutes ago, Dave F said:

I can’t be sure but it looks like a std SJ with a 50’s style pick guard and script and someone added the banner and k&k. Looks to be a legit Gibson. I wouldn’t go over $1600  for it and would only buy it if returnable. May be a few more surprises.  They show the s/n so you could try to contact Gibson. 

 

Did the SJ Standard have the forward shifted bracing?

[j45nick]

It has a mix of features--the banner  combined with the more modern block logo. The white label and rotomatic tuners suggest a standard SJ model rather than something more specialized.

Unlike others, I suspect the banner is original to the guitar, and is just another Gibson quirk. I have seen that banner/block logo combination before.

The Fellowship of Acoustics is a well-established and reputable company, so it is clearly authentic.

That price would be a bit high in the US because of the condition, but since it is being sold in Europe, the price is probably right.

[62burst]

“Listed 3 hours ago“… and “listing ended“. FOA might be a reputable shop, but calling this guitar in excellent condition is a stretch. Judging by the cracked TRC, and handling marks on the back of the headstock, this thing has had some work done to it. Those are only hints-  the impact crack on the side tells more of the tale. 

Edited December 29, 2020 by 62burst

[j45nick]

2 hours ago, 62burst said:

“Listed 3 hours ago“… and “listing ended“. FOA might be a reputable shop, but calling this guitar in excellent condition is a stretch. Judging by the cracked TRC, and handling marks on the back of the headstock, this thing has had some work done to it. Those are only hints-  the impact crack on the side tells more of the tale. 

I agree with you, but the description does talk about those issues.

It says the guitar is in "overall good condition," but lists the wear and damage. I suspect European buyers don't have as much selection as we do over here, and may have to be less picky in their expectations.

Edited December 29, 2020 by j45nick

[Dave F]

I could buy a new SJ std for 2100

Edited December 29, 2020 by Dave F

[62burst]

30 minutes ago, j45nick said:

I agree with you, but the description does talk about those issues.

It says the guitar is in "overall good condition," but lists the wear and damage. I suspect European buyers don't have as much selection as we do over here, and may have to be less picky in their expectations.

Definitely could be that. Although there have been some new guitar sellers, such as Elderly, who’ve been rather generous with their descriptions of used guitars. And haven’t we all seen those ads that say “in very good condition for an 80 year old Guitar“( ?).

EDIT: maybe the “Excellent“ condition descriptor is a default setting for Reverb, & TFOA simply didn’t catch it?

Edited December 29, 2020 by 62burst

[j45nick]

15 minutes ago, 62burst said:

Definitely could be that. Although there have been some new guitar sellers, such as Elderly, who’ve been rather generous with their descriptions of used guitars. And haven’t we all seen those ads that say “in very good condition for an 80 year old Guitar“( ?).

EDIT: maybe the “Excellent“ condition descriptor is a default setting for Reverb, & TFOA simply didn’t catch it?

It is also a lefty, which is even harder to find,

[Dave F]

More bad news besides having a repaired side crack, play wear in excellent condition. It's a converted lefty. notice the saddle slot for the right hand. Nut slots are off a little. Not a true lefty.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Dave F

[62burst]

Geez, Dave- yesterday you solved the "what's  the inspiration for this nameless graphic on '68 Gibson white pickguards?", a question many Gibsonists have been wondering for years. Today, this.

What, particularly, are you looking at in your closeup? Doesn't the treb side of the saddle usually get placed closer to the soundhole? 

[Dave F]

If you look close, you can see where the original saddle slot was and it was for the righty.

It almost looks like they sanded/shaved the top of the bridge to remove most of the evidence.

[j45nick]

1 hour ago, Dave F said:

If you look close, you can see where the original saddle slot was and it was for the righty.

It almost looks like they sanded/shaved the top of the bridge to remove most of the evidence.

It blends in pretty well. The thing is, the lefty pickguard is not the righty flipped over, so someone went to some effort to do a conversion, if that's the back story.

[62burst]

10 minutes ago, j45nick said:

It blends in pretty well. The thing is, the lefty pickguard is not the righty flipped over, so someone went to some effort to do a conversion, if that's the back story.

Yes, it does blend in well. . . I thought the area did look "worked" in the photo I'd posted below Dave's.

also- are the cuts/ramps made into the bridge (that keep the ball ends and the string windings from catching in the bridge pin holes) normally cut with the same width saw blade?

Edited December 30, 2020 by 62burst

[j45nick]

29 minutes ago, 62burst said:

Yes, it does blend in well. . . I thought the area did look "worked" in the photo I'd posted below Dave's.

also- are the cuts/ramps made into the bridge (that keep the ball ends and the string windings from catching in the bridge pin holes) normally cut with the same width saw blade?

The string ramps in the bridges of both my Bozeman guitars appear to be the same size  for all strings. It's not as critical as the slots in the nut, which determine string height. The saddle does that at the bridge.

[62burst]

11 minutes ago, j45nick said:

The string ramps in the bridges of both my Bozeman guitars appear to be the same size  for all strings. It's not as critical as the slots in the nut, which determine string height. The saddle does that at the bridge.

✔️. thx. . . the ones in the above photo had me wondering.

[scott kurt]

Thanks for all the info!!

[Buc McMaster]

Ah but the split parallelogram inlays are correct for a factory built left handed instrument, slanted in the correct direction.  Looks like a true southpaw to me........a southpaw player.

 

[Dave F]

3 hours ago, Buc McMaster said:

Ah but the split parallelogram inlays are correct for a factory built left handed instrument, slanted in the correct direction.  Looks like a true southpaw to me........a southpaw player.

 

Hmmmm

Good eye  

 

[62burst]

4 hours ago, Buc McMaster said:

Ah but the split parallelogram inlays are correct for a factory built left handed instrument, slanted in the correct direction.  Looks like a true southpaw to me........a southpaw player.

 

lol. Well, what do you know. . . it took a lefty.     🙃.

[j45nick]

6 hours ago, Buc McMaster said:

Ah but the split parallelogram inlays are correct for a factory built left handed instrument, slanted in the correct direction.  Looks like a true southpaw to me........a southpaw player.

 

Good eye, Buc. I never would have picked up on that. I checked my righty SJ just to be sure.

So, if the board inlays are reversed, is the top bracing also mirror-imaged in "true" lefty versions, such as your 'bird?

Edited December 30, 2020 by j45nick
added additional thought

[Buc McMaster]

2 hours ago, j45nick said:

So, if the board inlays are reversed, is the top bracing also mirror-imaged in "true" lefty versions, such as your 'bird?

Yes sir............bracing is left-handed as well.

[Dave F]

Then it looks like some one tried to make a righty out of it then put it back. That would explain the extra saddle slot, the replaced nut and the pick guard looking original. 
The plot thickens. I would have never thought of the inlays. 

[j45nick]

2 hours ago, Dave F said:

Then it looks like some one tried to make a righty out of it then put it back. That would explain the extra saddle slot, the replaced nut and the pick guard looking original. 
The plot thickens. I would have never thought of the inlays. 

Or, maybe when it was built, the didn't have any lefty bridges handy, so the modified a righty pulled out of the bin.

(seriously, I don't know.)

One interesting thing is that this SJ has a traditional Gibson belly-up bridge, like a modern standard SJ or J-45. My 1943 SJ re-issue, and the new 1942 Banner SJ, have belly down (Martin style) bridges,  as does Tom Barnwell's FON 910 rosewood Banner SJ, which the new 1942 Banner SJ is modeled after. That bridge was pretty common on the SJ in the Banner era.

Edited December 30, 2020 by j45nick
added additional thought

[Dave F]

Out of curiosity, I contacted the seller. He sent me a message with another thing to look for in line with Buc's contribution and another photo of the bridge. I see no signs of another slot in this photo.

Hi Dave,

It's a true lefty. Here is a closer look at the bridge as well. Also the side dots are on the lefthanded side 🙂

All the best,

 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Dave F