Changing tuners on a guitar with a broken and repaired headstock

[RBSinTo]

My 2001 j-45 (which I purchased used about a year ago) came with a repaired broken headstock. I have been assured by Luthiers here in Toronto that the repair was well done and very stable.

The individual tuners have small, white buttons, and I'd like to replace them with "tulip" shaped tuners. However I am concerned about destabilizing the repair in the course of the replacement. While I understand that every particular circumstance is different, I'm inquiring if anyone has had experience doing what I've described, and was it successful?

Please and thank you.

RBSinTo

[jedzep]

It's often discussed on forums how most correctly done head stock repairs are stronger than new. Often breaks occur along weakened grain pathways so the gluing and clamping strengthen that weak point.  Especially since you say it's been looked at by a pro I think you can proceed w/o any worry, but as an extra caution you can change one at a time to avoid going from full to zero tension and back.

Edited March 5, 2021 by jedzep

[RBSinTo]

jedzep,

Thanks for the reply.

I'm still ambivalent about actually doing the switch, and if I decide to, if I'd even do it myself.

This or that tuner button is an affectation and does nothing to change my satisfaction with the guitar, so I've still not made up my mind to do it.

Another question: is it necessary to change each machine entirely, or can the buttons alone be changed?

Questions, questions.

RBSinTo

 

[jedzep]

Buttons on many tuners can be swapped out. I'd never attempt it myself because it's a foreign process to me involving heating up the shaft, but the machines would still need to be removed to do it.

You're correct in that it's a mere cosmetic preference, but don't forget that the tuners provide no structural integrity that would translate to undo pressure being put on the peghead or repair anyway.  It's really a minor part swap, so I'd say go for it.

[RBSinTo]

Jedzep,

This discussion made me take a closer look at the fracture line in the headstock, and I noticed that the break on the upper face side actually goes through the shaft hole for the Soprano E-string tuner, and passes close to the shaft hole for the bass E's as well.

So the tuner screws which straddle the break do in fact, offer some structural integrity to the repair. 

Upon reflection, I think I'll put this bit of cosmetic surgery on the back burner until I can met a Luthier in person and get an assessment of the feasibility of swapping the tuners without problems.

I appreciate you taking the time to comment and offer advice.

RBSinTo

 

[jedzep]

Always good to be in a pro's hands. When that straddling tuner is switched out, whatever support it lends will be restored to current status.

Curious. Would love to see front, side,and back photos if you'd like to PM them.

Dave

[RBSinTo]

Jedzep,

I'll take the shots later today, and post them or PM them directly to you.

RBSinTo

[jedzep]

That would help me and others to get a better idea of what you're dealing with.

[RBSinTo]

Jedzep,

As a follow-up to this discussion, I spoke to a Luthier today while in the recently re-opened-to-the-public Cosmo Music store here in Toronto.

We discussed swapping out the tuners on the j-45, and while I did not have the guitar with me, from my description of the repaired break and the position of the break in relation to the tuner posts for the bass and treble E-strings, the Luthiers comment was essentially that " Yes, the swap could be made, as long as I was prepared to possibly spend a great deal of money if the process resulted in unforseen consequences (such as the original repair failing from whatever work was done)".

His personal opinion was to live with the original tuners and forget about trying to switch them. And I've decided to go with his recommendation.

Again, I appreciate your comments and advice.

RBSinTo

Edited March 20, 2021 by RBSinTo

[jedzep]

Hey R.

Glad you keep a playable guitar in hand for the time being. As I said, you'll notice if the repair begins to break down, if you don't wake up some morning to find it's given way completely. Maybe you shared pics with the luthier, but I certainly would have to have it in hand to make the decision. His caution is warranted. It's a couple hundred dollar repair if done right, but again, for now you get to play on. 

Should you ever get the notion to have someone actually look it over I'd be interested in the findings.

Enjoy.  Dave

[RBSinTo]

2 hours ago, jedzep said:

Hey R.

Glad you keep a playable guitar in hand for the time being. As I said, you'll notice if the repair begins to break down, if you don't wake up some morning to find it's given way completely. Maybe you shared pics with the luthier, but I certainly would have to have it in hand to make the decision. His caution is warranted. It's a couple hundred dollar repair if done right, but again, for now you get to play on. 

Should you ever get the notion to have someone actually look it over I'd be interested in the findings.

Enjoy.  Dave

Dave,

Currently, to even get the Luthiers to examine an instrument, it must be left with them for two weeks. So I simply can't be bothered. Perhaps when everything opens up and I can get a reasonably quick examination and verdict, I pursue this. Again, it is really nothing more than an affectation, which, if I try to satisfy might lead to an very expensive conclusion, and successful or not does nothing to improve the playability, or more important, the sound quality of the guitar.

If/when I get it properly examined, I'll let you know what the findings are.

RBSinTo

 

[RBSinTo]

Dave,

I forgot to mention that I have two other acoustics, a 1974 D-28, and a 2000ish Washburn parlour guitar, as well as a 1960-70ish  ES-335 knock-off, so I've got lots of guitars on hand to noodle my brains out as necessary.

RBSinTo

[jedzep]

Great! You're all set. That's a nice variety of tones.

[pohatu771]

From your description, you're vastly overthinking this.

You're replacing a Kluson-style white-button tuner with a Kluson-style keystone tuner. The actual machines will be the same and screw into the same holes.

The screw isn't providing any structural support to the crack. As long as you aren't over-tightening the screw into solid wood with no pilot hole, there is no way it is going to cause any problem.

 

 

[RBSinTo]

On 3/21/2021 at 10:38 AM, pohatu771 said:

From your description, you're vastly overthinking this.

You're replacing a Kluson-style white-button tuner with a Kluson-style keystone tuner. The actual machines will be the same and screw into the same holes.

The screw isn't providing any structural support to the crack. As long as you aren't over-tightening the screw into solid wood with no pilot hole, there is no way it is going to cause any problem.

 

 

Pohatu771,

I agree about the screws. However, the tuners which are anchored above and below the break act like a splint, and so do in fact add some structural integrity. Again, debating this is pointless. When it takes less effort than one of Hercules' Labours to have the guitar inspected by a Luthier, I'll get a hands-on professional opinion, and then make a decision.

RBSinTo

[jedzep]

Yep, I'm sure you'll get to it. Remember though, keep an eye on the repair seams for signs of movement as seasons change.

If you got daring and swapped them out, the 'splint' you removed would go right back on, so you'd still have the extra reinforcement with new tuners. I would guess your luthier could just replace the buttons too.

Dave