Help positively identifying what I think is a 62 ES 125TC?

[Dan P]

Hi, new member here and I'm hoping someone here will have some insights into what I have. Over 20 years ago I inherited what I think is a Gibson ES125TC. I was always told was a 1965 model. And I do believe it to be an ES125TC, from internet pics and research. I hadn't played it for about 10 years, but I pulled it out recently to use on a recording, and for the first time since I've owned it, I looked up the serial number and other details about it. The serial shows it to be a 1962 with a few from 63 and 64. I saw online that the pickup that originally came in that guitar, should be a dog-eared P90. Everywhere I looked, it said Dog Ear P90.
 

I had put a different pickup in it about 20 years ago, but saved the original and I took a look at that pickup and discovered it was a PAF from the 57 to 62 time-frame. I did a lot of research and every indicator I found says it's a real PAF. I knew these were selling for a lot, so I thought I'd change it back to a dog-eared P90.

I figured I would sell the PAF and put a 60's P90 back in, making it period original and make a few bucks in the process. Anyway, I took the current pickup out, which is from a 79-80 Gibson RD Artist, that I got from a guitarist in a band I was in, who owed me some money. That was a PAT NO. 2,737842 Humbucker and it was a perfect fit and SHINY and sounded good, and back then I didn't think about things like leaving it all original. The PAF sounded good too, but was a little dull in appearance. I never realized what it was at the time. I'm going to put it back in.

So when I got the RD pickup out of the body, I could tell that the guitar came from the factory with that PAF, or at least something that mounted the same. See the pics below. The pickup sitting in the hole is the RD Artist humbucker. I'm certain the guitar was never altered by the person who left it to me, but I can't find anywhere that says some of these could've came with a PAF pickup. You can tell from the pics that no dog ear P90 was ever mounted in the guitar. I read that the PAF's only came in Les Pauls, the ES-175, ES-295, Byrdland, ES-350, ES-5 Switchmaster, L-5CE, the Super 400 and the ES-335/ES-345/ES-355. So, could it be a special order?

I welcome any opinions. Has anybody ran into an ES125 with a PAF? Do I have one a bit more rare because of the difference in original pickup? What other pickup from that time could've been in there with the same mounting arrangement? Thanks!

Still trying to get pics attached. I have to resize them.

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Dan P
trying to add pics

[Dan P]

[Dan P]

Well, I can't get the other pics small enough to post and still be worth looking at. Try this link:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/CZPrK3PFqqhuZGMq8

Edited February 24, 2023 by Dan P
added link

[ksdaddy]

I've never seen a 125 of any variety come stock with anything other than a P-90 so you have a rare bird indeed. 

If you can see the codes stamped onto the pots, that could help narrow it down a lot. You may have to take them out to see them. Depends on how bad you want to know, I guess!

[JimR56]

On 2/23/2023 at 9:05 PM, Dan P said:

So, could it be a special order?

Either that or an "employee guitar" (conceived and made by a Gibson employee).  Very cool!  

[Dan P]

Thanks @JimR56! I think it's cool too. I've searched and searched online and not found another with a factory installed PAF. And it plays great too. I had the frets replaced over 10 years ago and that's all it needed.

[Twang Gang]

Cool guitar.  My first electric was a 125TC and of course it had a P-90 dog ear in it.  That is one cool guitar and glad you have preserved it and that it still plays well.  

[Dan P]

Thanks @Twang Gang! I do love the guitar. I have 3 Gibson and 3 Fender Strat electrics and in the past, I haven't given it the attention it deserves. I pulled it out for a jazzy blues recording I was doing and then really researched it for the first time. So now I'm finding out that it is pretty rare and maybe one of a kind. The more I play it, the more I'm liking it. It doesn't feel cheap or student model to me. Great neck and sound. I inherited it from Chicago jazz musician and multi-instrumentalist Max Miller, who, in the 40's, used to write a column in Downbeat Magazine called "The Audio Workshop", and was signed to both Columbia and MCA back in his career.

[Twang Gang]

Wow, now you really got me.  Max Miller is/was a jazz legend around the Midwest especially in Chicago (where I grew up and played for many years).  I'm sure he was provided with many instruments from manufacturers over the years, and it might very well be a one of kind that he got from Gibson or special ordered it with the humbucker.  I think I paid $150 for my used ES125TC back in 1965.  Sight unseen I will offer you double that for yours 😜

[Dan P]

@Twang Gang, Max moved to Oklahoma, where his wife Nita was from. She was the daughter of Glenn Strange, best known as Sam the bartender on Gunsmoke. He was giving private lessons here and I was a student of his. We hit it off from the start and he left a number of things to me. I ended up being his last student. I'm also the curator of his archive of recordings, most notably some with Sidney Bechet that are unreleased, but also guys from Herman's Herd and other players who made the jazz books.

I think it's really typical of Max to have had a guitar with an unusual difference . I still miss the guy and unfortunately he died before I learned all I could've from him.

P.S. I'll consider your offer! lol

[jdgm]

2 hours ago, Twang Gang said:

Wow, now you really got me.  Max Miller is/was a jazz legend around the Midwest especially in Chicago (where I grew up and played for many years).  I'm sure he was provided with many instruments from manufacturers over the years, and it might very well be a one of kind that he got from Gibson or special ordered it with the humbucker.  I think I paid $150 for my used ES125TC back in 1965.  Sight unseen I will offer you double that for yours 😜

 

2 hours ago, Dan P said:

@Twang Gang, Max moved to Oklahoma, where his wife Nita was from. She was the daughter of Glenn Strange, best known as Sam the bartender on Gunsmoke. He was giving private lessons here and I was a student of his. We hit it off from the start and he left a number of things to me. I ended up being his last student. I'm also the curator of his archive of recordings, most notably some with Sidney Bechet that are unreleased, but also guys from Herman's Herd and other players who made the jazz books.

I think it's really typical of Max to have had a guitar with an unusual difference . I still miss the guy and unfortunately he died before I learned all I could've from him.

P.S. I'll consider your offer! lol

Great stuff!  This is why I love this forum.  

Edited March 24, 2023 by jdgm

[Mudvein]

I have a 62 ES 125 "Special" that has 2 PAF's.  I am pretty sure that they came that way from the factory. It also has a 175 neck and tailpiece.  I would post a picture but I can't figure out how to do it.

[Dan P]

@Mudvein I would like to see pics of that guitar. I think it would also be extremely rare. I can't find any examples of what you describe online. They all have P90 pickups. I also can't find anything about a ES125 "Special", so it's not a common guitar.

You can use the tools to the right of the paperclip in the the comment window to add a picture.

 

[Dan P]

@Mudvein I have since found the ES-125 Special with two humbuckers, very cool. I believe all the Specials came with two pickups, but I'm not certain. I have not found any ES-125 with a single PAF humbucker.

[LG King]

Have you put your question(s) to Gibson? 

They are known to keep some records.