1968-1971 Gibson neck (Inquiry)

[duane v]

I'll try to make this story as short as possible:

My pops worked with a dear friend (Patrick) as a butcher at Gemco back in the 70's-80's and I just heard from him as he just found out my pops passed away, and he asked if I was still playing guitar. 

Patrick used to moonlight at Charvel in the late 70's as a tech and eventually had his own side business for guitar repair and such. He was telling me he doesn't work on guitars anymore and he has some Charvel necks from the late 70'' and tons of tools and guitar parts.

I told him I was mostly into Gibson guitars over the last 25 years, and he said he had some Gibson necks from the late 60's early 70's that don't have fret-boards when he was a "Repair Guy" for Hanich Music in West Covina as he did some warranty work for Gibson at the time. Hanich would drive the work over to his house. He said his memory was a little fuzzy but he was installing truss rods on both of them and when Hanich Music closed down he kept the necks and a bunch of other guitar parts.

I asked him what wood species the Gibson necks were and he said they were one piece mahogany and the tenon joint was medium to long type on both. and the necks are sanded bare...... I always thought Gibson Norlin Necks were 3-piece maple... I dunno.

Anywhoo, he told me if I want to do a road trip to Hemet CA, I can take everything he has collected for $0.00... The only catch is he wants to hang out and have a lunch and talk about old times, as he thought the world of my pops.

[Californiaman]

By all means go.

It's a great opportunity and a way to help move on from your recent loss of a loved one.

I've made that drive so many times to see my parents in Palm Springs.  Now that my mother has passed, I try to go out to see my dad as often as I can.  He is 84, sharp as a tack but has a serious and rare health condition.  So I go.  For me, it's a drive that can last anywhere from 4.5 hours to 6 or 7.

The benefits for you Duane are two fold as I see it.

Take what ever he wants to give you and listen to him talk about your father.🙂

Edited April 26 by Californiaman

[Rabs]

Sounds cool.  Free stuff is free stuff..  Maybe they are more from the 60s than 70s..  Or maybe it was what was left before Norlin took over.

Donno... But worth finding out I think.

It also occurs to me that maybe if its old mahogany it may be Honduran? Which would be well worth saving.

[duane v]

1 hour ago, Rabs said:

Sounds cool.  Free stuff is free stuff..  Maybe they are more from the 60s than 70s..  Or maybe it was what was left before Norlin took over.

Donno... But worth finding out I think.

It also occurs to me that maybe if its old mahogany it may be Honduran? Which would be well worth saving.

Mahogany????.... I thought all Gibson Norlin Era Necks were 3-piece Maple

[PrairieDog]

Just pointing out, it is unlikely he would have been doing too many repairs on what would have been new guitars back then.  My guess is they were parts for older instruments that needed work.  Also, there was a big fad back then of retrofitting truss rods in early solid necks, especially if they had gone out of shape.  So yeah, I can see them being solid hog.   Go and have fun!  It sure can be eye-opening to hear about the adult life of our parents that the children don’t often get to see. 

[Rabs]

2 hours ago, duane v said:

Mahogany????.... I thought all Gibson Norlin Era Necks were 3-piece Maple

Well you said he said they were one piece mahogany...   I was just commenting that maybe they were like new old stock previous to Norlin and were just laying about so he was offered them or took them or whatever. And if that is the case it may be Honduran mahogany cos thats what they used to use.

Maybe as they are original Gibson you can offer it back to Gibson so they can do a limited run with NOS Gibson parts  😄

Edited April 26 by Rabs

[duane v]

Well one of the necks is definitely worth using as the truss rod is installed and there is a partial serial number of the first two digits "89" barely visible, while the other neck is beyond my ability because there is no truss rod installed. I took both of the necks and they are both long tenon and 1-piece mahogany.

I also took a box full of Gibson pickup covers, truss rod covers and pickup rings. I also took four of the Charvel "Boogie necks"????? He said they were from the 70's..... He also gave me a bunch of Charvel headstock water slides from the 70's as well.

It was a great time.

Now for the big question installing a fretboard on a neck.... First I need some wood..... I'm thinking of going with a maple fretboard.

 

[Rabs]

That all sounds cool and well worth it..

If you install a modern day truss rod rather than a traditional Gibson style one they are pretty easy to do. You can also buy pre slotted and even pre radiused boards which make the whole thing even easier.

 

[Californiaman]

Well Duane, it sounds like you made out.  Glad you could make the trip.

I know that choosing a fretboard material is often a difficult thing.  If you want to go with maple, that's a choice that has its advantages.  However, there are some places where you can find rosewood if you decide to take that route.  I actually have a Brazilian rosewood neck on an old beat up Harmony acoustic guitar.  Putting it to use is another problem all in itself.  The guitar is toast, but the fretboard is useable.  It's just a matter of finding the right project.

As for that neck that doesn't have a truss rod installed on it, I know a guy in Boise.  His name is a John Bolin and he builds custom guitars for the likes of Gibbons, Miller, Richards and many other top players.  He could do the work. Or if you want to part with it, I'd be glad to turn it over to someone who would love to use it.

Come to think of it.  John has some top notch Brazilian rosewood in his shop.  You want a neck done?  You want it done right?  John's your guy.  Last time I was in his shop he was building two guitars for Steve Miller and one for Billy Gibbons.  I can deliver the neck for you in May as I'm making the trip to Boise on the 11th.

[duane v]

Thanks for the info CaliDude.

The more I think about it for the neck with the truss rod installed, I may just purchase a nice slab of quilted maple for the fretboard, and take it to a local Luther I know to add the fretboard, binding and frets. Those are very critical aspects for the guitar to play well, and I don't have the tools and skill level for that.

As for the other neck, I'm just gonna let that lay low for awhile.

[duane v]

I just purchased a quilted maple slab for the neck fretboard from NorthWest Timber Company and pearloid block inlays from Stewy. All I need is finding a Gibson old stock  late 60's-70's headstock overlay..... That should be a fun search and $$$$$.... then off to the Luthier it goes.....

The Luthier told me the wood for the fret board needs to sit for 30 days before he can do anything with it.... I don't know why, but that's the way it is I guess..... He's charging me $800 for the work which seems a little high, but I wasn't gonna object.

Since this could be a long term project, I'm hoping to find an actual  Gibson made Les Paul body somewhere on the Webz while the neck is being finished.

 

 

[duane v]

The search for the headstock overlay was quick and not too expensive. Definitely looks like an authentic Gibson 70's, especially the Gibson MOP logo. I decided to take a chance and buy it and hope for the best (see image). There's also another one on the Webz that doesnt have the binding or MOP which I'm going to buy that needs a little love as well just in case. 

 

[Californiaman]

Nice!!!

Looks like you're well on your way, Duane.  It's great to have a project you can throw your time and efforts into.  Good luck and keep us updated on your progress.

[duane v]

38 minutes ago, Californiaman said:

Nice!!!

Looks like you're well on your way, Duane.  It's great to have a project you can throw your time and efforts into.  Good luck and keep us updated on your progress.

It's helping me bleed off some of anxiousness I've been carrying around over the last 8 months.

Image of the beat up 70's overlay I bought. Now to find a NOS 70's pearl MOP logo.... good luck with that one....lol..... but I'm wondering if Mother Of Pearl Resin Pearlizing Powder could work.... Hopefully the pristine overlay works out.

 

[PrairieDog]

1 hour ago, duane v said:

It's helping me bleed off some of anxiousness I've been carrying around over the last 8 months.

Image of the beat up 70's overlay I bought. Now to find a NOS 70's pearl MOP logo.... good luck with that one....lol..... but I'm wondering if Mother Of Pearl Resin Pearlizing Powder could work.... Hopefully the pristine overlay works out.

 

Woodworking/cabinet making suppliers should have sheets of mop veneer. Takes a steady hand, but inlay is mostly just being very careful with a very sharp cutter.  There are computer programs that can take an image of the design and create a template for.  The harder part, the routing, is already done!

[Dub-T-123]

5 hours ago, duane v said:

I just purchased a quilted maple slab for the neck fretboard from NorthWest Timber Company and pearloid block inlays from Stewy. All I need is finding a Gibson old stock  late 60's-70's headstock overlay..... That should be a fun search and $$$$$.... then off to the Luthier it goes.....

The Luthier told me the wood for the fret board needs to sit for 30 days before he can do anything with it.... I don't know why, but that's the way it is I guess..... He's charging me $800 for the work which seems a little high, but I wasn't gonna object.

Since this could be a long term project, I'm hoping to find an actual  Gibson made Les Paul body somewhere on the Webz while the neck is being finished.

 

 

The wood needs to acclimate to his shop to avoid issues with warping/cracking in the future. Good call by him 👍

 

$800 is a good chunk of change but that’s a lot of skilled labor using a variety of specialized tools. Sounds like a really cool project 

 

Btw it would be very easy to route the channel for a truss rod, especially if you use a modern double action truss rod as Rabs suggested. If the necks have volutes, that makes it even easier 

[duane v]

1 hour ago, Dub-T-123 said:

The wood needs to acclimate to his shop to avoid issues with warping/cracking in the future. Good call by him 👍

 

$800 is a good chunk of change but that’s a lot of skilled labor using a variety of specialized tools. Sounds like a really cool project 

 

Btw it would be very easy to route the channel for a truss rod, especially if you use a modern double action truss rod as Rabs suggested. If the necks have volutes, that makes it even easier 

Interesting comment about the volute.... they do not have a volute which is tell true sign of a Norlin era guitar, but I have a SG200 that doesn't have a volute.... So now I'm a bit at a loss.

and you're right about the $800..... I never complain to Luthiers about their pricing structure, even if I might think it's a bit high. As long as it done right.

and yes wood acclimation. I think I'm just taking maple for granted because it's ability to handle wide thermal conditions.

 

[Dub-T-123]

Actually if you think about it, of the 3 main types of wood commonly used for fretboards, maple is the only one that needs to be completely sealed in a hard finish. It expands and contracts like anything else, but in this case it’s getting joined to a completely different piece of wood from a different place so humidity is more important than normal. 
 

if the maple were all by itself it could expand and contract and warp freely. If it does that at a different rate than the wood it is joined to, that’s where you get cracks etc. It’s important that the pieces of wood which are to be joined together are dry and acclimated to the same environment 

 

reason i mention the volute is that the double action truss rods tend to require a deeper channel than the Gibson truss rod. The stewmac hot rod is a commonly used double action truss rod and it requires a 7/16” deep channel. Before the fretboard is glued on, it would be common for that part of the neck to be about 5/8” thick or often even thinner. I’ve also used the low profile hot rod from stew mac which is very nice 
 

Are the Charvel necks cut for a Floyd rose nut? Are they slotted/fretted? I’d be pretty interested in buying one of those if you don’t have any plans for them 

[duane v]

Interesting information about maple:

The Luthier I have been going to for over 25 years just provides me high level information, and never goes into detail about the why which is fine with me as I have a high level of trust. 

As for the Charvel necks they are not cut for floyd rose nut and they do have frets. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with them, but if I do sell you will be the first to get one.

[duane v]

I have been looking at this 1991 Gibson Body for the better part of three months and it comes with a Gibson neck that needs major work that I don't want or need. I have been trying to convince the seller if he would separate the two and he will considerate it so we are negotiating.

Now I can only imagine the maple wood cap underneath the paint not being what I would want, so the plan (if we come to an agreement) is to plane the maple cap off the mahogany body and get a nice 5a quilted 1-inch thick quilted maple wood to have the Luthier modify to the body and new top modified for the neck. Then 5 ply binding on the body and top as well.... Here is what  was quoted by the Luthier.

1. Removing top on body = I will do (I have a planer). Mike told me if I do that he will hook me up with the rest.
2. 5A Quilted Maple Top = $600
3. 5 ply Binding front and back = $300
4. Three Pickups Primary Machining on the body and carve top plus mating = $800
5. Secondary Machining Top = Drilling holes for Volume/tone, ABR 1, Selector Switch and Tailpiece = $300
6. Neck and body Mating = $150 (He told he will not allow me to glue the neck to the body) lol.... He's gonna do that.
7. The neck work was $800, but he is insisting that he adds the headstock overlay and if there is additional shaping needed = $900
8. Total = $3050

 

I have the pickups (Tim Shaw) / electronics and all the hardware.

I'm heading to the plater after work to nickel plate the three Gibson embossed pickup covers. ($100)

So basically I'm going to have a Gibson Mutt LPC when it's all said and done for the low low price $3150.

 

[Dub-T-123]

Nah man don’t do that. You’ll get a bunch of planer snipe anyways and the joint will be all shitty albeit hidden by binding. 
 

at that point it’s not a Gibson body anymore and it’s more work than just making one from scratch. Carving the top is the most laborious part of making a Lp body without a CNC. The back is easy to do, less effort than buying and planing a body 

[Dub-T-123]

$600 is way too much for the top if that’s just the wood and the carving and binding are separate. You can easily get a super fancy flamed torrefied top from stewmac for about $290. That would be a top of the line product.

 

for the back you could get a blank and templates and router bits and come out cheaper and better quality

 

After you plane and refinish the body it’s no longer a Gibson product. The planer won’t do a proper job and the refinishing will distort the original shapes. Gibson also most likely started with a heavier and generally inferior blank for that guitar anyways, and having a fresh body allows the luthier complete control over the neck joint 

[duane v]

DubT

Thanks for the insights.

I still haven't heard back from the seller on the body, and the maple material for the fretboard will be here today or tomorrow, and off to the Luthier the neck goes. Both headstock overlays will arrive on Monday, but he only wants the pristine one that doesn't need any work.

As for finding a  Made In USA Three pickup Les Paul Body of high quality, that could take some time.... I was lucky to find the one for the current project I'm working on, or I can ask my Luthier to make me one but I don't think he would want to do that.

The neck is going to take 45-50 days to complete, so I have some time to think about what I'm going to do about the body. 

 

[Dub-T-123]

This is the first guy that comes to mind about getting a custom carved top LP body made really nicely 

https://maximumguitarworks.com

 

there are also lots of luthiers at mylespaul who would be able to make you one but I couldn’t really recommend anyone in particular 

 

I would look into getting a custom body made with carving and pickup cavities etc all done but no mortise for the neck joint. Let the luthier who is installing the neck cut the mortise 

 

Then again, if your luthier was willing to carve the top for you then that’s like 99% of the work making a LP body anyways. If he’s willing to carve the top he must be willing to make the whole body 

[duane v]

14 hours ago, Dub-T-123 said:

This is the first guy that comes to mind about getting a custom carved top LP body made really nicely 

https://maximumguitarworks.com

 

there are also lots of luthiers at mylespaul who would be able to make you one but I couldn’t really recommend anyone in particular 

 

I would look into getting a custom body made with carving and pickup cavities etc all done but no mortise for the neck joint. Let the luthier who is installing the neck cut the mortise 

 

Then again, if your luthier was willing to carve the top for you then that’s like 99% of the work making a LP body anyways. If he’s willing to carve the top he must be willing to make the whole body 

thanks for the info!!!

Luthier has the neck, the quilted maple and the headstock overlay.

We talked for a bit and he said the neck would take two months to complete, and he said he would make a body for me for $1800 of any wood species. I have  tow months so I'm gonna look around and see if there are more cost effective options.... I mean for $1800 I can get a nice used Gibson.