John Walker "Wise River" Kevin Kopp K 35s ?

[suburude63]

Has anyone on this forum owned or played either of these makers guitars? (Wise River or K 35) I am hearing they are as close you can get to a Vintage J 35 without paying the $11,000-13,000 ?

Anyone? Thanks!

[suburude63]

Anyone ever heard of these makers ????? Does anyone even care? :D

[Rambler]

Have heard some sound samples--they are good. Kind of like what Collings is to Martin. But so is the Borges Hayride (had my paws on this one:

). It's mighty fine but Frank Fotusky's factory J35 reissue was wouldnt take a back seat to it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meItjyHr3lE. Dont rule out a Greven. Or Chris Bozung.

 

Point being, there's a cluster of really good builders out there but no one at the top. Kind of like the NBA right now. Boston, La, San Antonio, Orlanda & Cleveland all good, but no breakaway favorite.

[jannusguy]

they sure look nice in the pictures i've seen!

[Geoffrey Lawton]

suburude

i've read nothing but glowing reports about both makers and this particular model.

i actually had a walker j185 clone in my hands. and while i really liked it, i didn't

love it - not for the close-to-$4000.00 price tag. for that kind of dough, it better

reach out and grab me by the throat - and it didin't. so i sent it back. the shop owner -

greg boyd - really thought i was nutz. each to his own, i guess.

good luck with your search for that perfect slope shouldered dread.

geoff

[fp]

I played a Brazilian Walker slope shoulder a couple years ago at a guitar show and I was quite impressed with it other then the too low action causing the strings to rattle on the fretboard.

I sure don't like the shape of the teardrop pickguard I've seen on the Walker slopes. That would be the first thing I'd change.

Jim I think you should sell all of your slopes and find yourself a primo example of a 40's Gibson J45, then you will have found a keeper. There is that nice 46 SJ for sale over at the UMGF !

[rar]

I played a Brazilian Walker slope shoulder a couple years ago at a guitar show and I was quite impressed with it

 

I played what was probably that same guitar, and I agree it was outstanding. The only "problem" was that it didn't sound like a '30s AJ, and it didn't sound like Bozeman's best (IMHO) more recent, more tonally-accurate AJs. (It did sound pretty similar to good early '90s AJs. Not surprising, I guess. But Ren and Company have made a lot of progress on building guitars that sound like classic Gibsons since then.)

 

The tonewood choice may have been a factor. After all, the originals were mostly Indian RW. (The "prototype" Bozeman borrowed from Gary Burnette when they decided to revive the AJ is an exception. But it's the only well-documented exception I know of. By and large, they were that kind of Amazonish-looking Indian that Gibson used in the late '30s.) But there's more to it than that. Based on that guitar and some recordings of Walkers I've heard, I think the

 

Walker:Gibson::Collings:Martin

 

analogy is a good one. Walker's characteristic tone is Gibson-y, but he doesn't seem to be aiming at precisely duplicating classic Gibson tone. He's got his own ideas of what sounds best, and his guitars are a little more "modern" sounding, for lack of a better word.

 

Much the same goes for Kopps. He build absolutely wonderful guitars. I've played a bunch. However, while they look like Gibsons, they don't sound like the corresponding old Gibsons or Gibson's best reproductions of the old Gibsons (or like Walkers, for that matter), undoubtedly because that's not quite the tone he's aiming for.

 

If I really wanted a new guitar that sounded as much like an old Gibson J-35 as possible -- nice idea, that -- I'd commission Ren to take his best shot. Some of the Legend-series guitars have convinced me that no one does better than Ren at duplicating late '30s--early '40s Gibson tone. (Caveat: I have no direct personal experience with some builders' guitars that others swear have nailed the tone, such as such as John Greven's L-00v and Aaron Cowles's Jubal jumbo.) In particular, my Legend J-45 sounds startlingly similar to my excellent '42 J-45, except for not having that characteristic "old" aspect to its tone. (It's just a happy coincidence that I wound up with a "matched set". Naturally, most Legend/'42 pairs are less similar than most Legend/Legend or '42/'42 pairs, and few of the latter pairs qualify as "startlingly similar" in my book.)

 

Of course, in any discussion of what guitars sound like what other guitars, it must be noted that YEMV (= Your Ears May Vary).

 

-- Bob R

[suburude63]

I played a Brazilian Walker slope shoulder a couple years ago at a guitar show and I was quite impressed with it other then the too low action causing the strings to rattle on the fretboard.

I sure don't like the shape of the teardrop pickguard I've seen on the Walker slopes. That would be the first thing I'd change.

Jim I think you should sell all of your slopes and find yourself a primo example of a 40's Gibson J45' date=' then you will have found a keeper. There is that nice 46 SJ for sale over at the UMGF ![/quote']

 

I ve got a 56 J 45 thats a keeper. I have played some older but mine is the J 45 for me.

[suburude63]

I played what was probably that same guitar' date=' and I agree it was outstanding. The only "problem" was that it didn't sound like a '30s AJ, and it didn't sound like Bozeman's best (IMHO) more recent, more tonally-accurate AJs. (It did sound pretty similar to good early '90s AJs. Not surprising, I guess. But Ren and Company have made a lot of progress on building guitars that sound like classic Gibsons since then.)

 

The tonewood choice may have been a factor. After all, the originals were mostly Indian RW. (The "prototype" Bozeman borrowed from Gary Burnette when they decided to revive the AJ is an exception. But it's the only well-documented exception I know of. By and large, they were that kind of Amazonish-looking Indian that Gibson used in the late '30s.) But there's more to it than that. Based on that guitar and some recordings of Walkers I've heard, I think the

 

Walker:Gibson::Collings:Martin

 

analogy is a good one. Walker's characteristic tone is Gibson-y, but he doesn't seem to be aiming at precisely duplicating classic Gibson tone. He's got his own ideas of what sounds best, and his guitars are a little more "modern" sounding, for lack of a better word.

 

Much the same goes for Kopps. He build absolutely wonderful guitars. I've played a bunch. However, while they look like Gibsons, they don't sound like the corresponding old Gibsons or Gibson's best reproductions of the old Gibsons (or like Walkers, for that matter), undoubtedly because that's not quite the tone he's aiming for.

 

If I really wanted a new guitar that sounded as much like an old Gibson J-35 as possible -- nice idea, that -- I'd commission Ren to take his best shot. Some of the Legend-series guitars have convinced me that no one does better than Ren at duplicating late '30s--early '40s Gibson tone. (Caveat: I have no direct personal experience with some builders' guitars that others swear have nailed the tone, such as such as John Greven's L-00v and Aaron Cowles's Jubal jumbo.) In particular, my Legend J-45 sounds startlingly similar to my excellent '42 J-45, except for not having that characteristic "old" aspect to its tone. (It's just a happy coincidence that I wound up with a "matched set". Naturally, most Legend/'42 pairs are less similar than most Legend/Legend or '42/'42 pairs, and few of the latter pairs qualify as "startlingly similar" in my book.)

 

Of course, in any discussion of what guitars sound like what other guitars, it must be noted that YEMV (= Your Ears May Vary).

 

-- Bob R[/quote']

 

Ren and company have made som great leaps but ! Merrils, Walkers ,Chris Bozung, Julius Borges and Mr. Kopp are doing incredible things! I realise that everyone is partial to something. I love certain Gibsons! Mostly older ones Ive played. But the inconsistancy of Bozeman/Gibson still haunts them. Not every guitar out of Mt. is steller by any means.

But every guitar that Julius Borges makes is steller. You might not even like them. Thats what makes the world go round oppinions and desire!

[rar]

Not every guitar out of Mt. is steller by any means.

 

Absolutely correct. I completely agree. But virtually every guitar that Ren or Val takes charge of building is tonally stellar, just like those custom builders. The difference is, when they shoot for classic Gibson tone -- which they don't, always -- they come closer to the bullseye than anyone on your list. IMHO. Plus, their guitars say "Gibson" on the headstock. (Some people think that's a minus, what with Gibson being the Rodney Dangerfield of guitar builders in the eyes of so many folks, and others think that's a plus.)

 

-- Bob R

[Red 333]

This may be a stupid question, but have you tried one of the new J35s Bozeman has built with the 20th Anniversary label? How about a Fuller's J35? Look for one built before 2007, when they still had the bigger Luthier's Choice-like neck. I was told Gibson won't put this neck on them now, since they reserve it for more spendy guitars, apparently.

 

Red 333

[rar]

This may be a stupid question' date=' but have you tried one of the new J35s Bozeman has built with the 20th Anniversary label? How about a Fuller's J35? Look for one built before 2007, when they still had the bigger Luthier's Choice-like neck. I was told Gibson won't put this neck on them now, since they reserve it for more spendy guitars, apparently.[/quote']

 

Yep, those Fuller's J-35s can be a great choice for someone with a craving for '30s tone but a seriously limited budget. The only 20th Anniversary J-35 I played, the first one off the line, was a fine guitar, but it didn't sound as "old-timey" as some of the Fuller's. May just have been that particular one, though.

 

-- Bob R

[sumner77]

Was very interested a while back, and a pretty serious collector I know told me this:

 

Hey there my friend.Thanks for asking about that J.Walker guitar;in fact i was about to buy it for myself..i have his J-35 "Wise River"interpretation,and it's a fine,resonant and very responsive guitar.I think it's his best selling model. From what i read here and also on the collingsforum(there are some J.Walker owners there),everybody seems to be happy with their guitars. In fact,when it comes to the vintage Gibson sound,i don't think any other builder knows about the Gibson sound more.You know that he worked for many years at the Gibson factory.

His guitars are very lightly built,with great fit and finish too.Hide glue construction;the guitar "breaths"and you can hear that.I've read that if you compare Kevin Kopp guitars and J.Walker,the Walkers are more aggressive,have better mids and they seem to "cut"better.Of course i don't mean with that that the Kopps are bad,ok? Both are excellent builders when it comes to the Gibson recreations.

I got mine almost new,from a collector who also had an original '39 J-35,and he's a good friend of mine.He told me that the two guitars sound almost indentical,the Walker is a vintage sounding guitar out of the the box,and to his words,"the Walker sounds like a 40 year old guitar,while the vintage J-35 like a 70 year old guitar".

 

Just another opinion.

[suburude63]

This may be a stupid question' date=' but have you tried one of the new J35s Bozeman has built with the 20th Anniversary label? How about a Fuller's J35? Look for one built before 2007, when they still had the bigger Luthier's Choice-like neck. I was told Gibson won't put this neck on them now, since they reserve it for more spendy guitars, apparently.

 

Red 333[/quote']

 

I have and liked the OJ sound (very similar) much better!

[suburude63]

Was very interested a while back' date=' and a pretty serious collector I know told me this:

 

Hey there my friend.Thanks for asking about that J.Walker guitar;in fact i was about to buy it for myself..i have his J-35 "Wise River"interpretation,and it's a fine,resonant and very responsive guitar.I think it's his best selling model. From what i read here and also on the collingsforum(there are some J.Walker owners there),everybody seems to be happy with their guitars. In fact,when it comes to the vintage Gibson sound,i don't think any other builder knows about the Gibson sound more.You know that he worked for many years at the Gibson factory.

His guitars are very lightly built,with great fit and finish too.Hide glue construction;the guitar "breaths"and you can hear that.I've read that if you compare Kevin Kopp guitars and J.Walker,the Walkers are more aggressive,have better mids and they seem to "cut"better.Of course i don't mean with that that the Kopps are bad,ok? Both are excellent builders when it comes to the Gibson recreations.

I got mine almost new,from a collector who also had an original '39 J-35,and he's a good friend of mine.He told me that the two guitars sound almost indentical,the Walker is a vintage sounding guitar out of the the box,and to his words,"the Walker sounds like a 40 year old guitar,while the vintage J-35 like a 70 year old guitar".

 

Just another opinion.

[/quote']

 

Well I will find out this week for sure !! I just bought both a Walker Wise and a Kopp K35 . Both used both pristine condition. I will string them up play them both for a week and report back.

I just found out that Kopp stains his sunburst with a cotton ball and an alcohol base stain to get an Old timey look. Gibson did this the same way in the 30s. Pics in a while!

[suburude63]

[rar]

Well I will find out this week for sure !! I just bought both a Walker Wise and a Kopp K35 ... .

 

Oops! I guess I didn't understand what you were getting at in your original post. What I should have said was ... Those are both great guitars. You should buy one of each!

 

Congratulations!

 

-- Bob R

[sumner77]

congratulations. is that an optical illusion, or the widest grain top I've ever seen? Dying to hear your comparison.

[suburude63]

congratulations. is that an optical illusion' date=' or the widest grain top I've ever seen? Dying to hear your comparison.[/quote']

 

Kevin Kopp does not spray his burst he uses a cotton ball with an alcohol base stain to hand make the burst. Incredible !! Its the way Gibson actually did it in the 20s and 30s so I am told.

It is not an optical illusion'

[suburude63]

He also uses a micro amount of Nitro . His guitars are barely 4 pounds.