Help Me With This One

[tulsaslim]

Ok, we're are all familiar with the old 'tube amp vs. solid state' controversy and I'm not trying to open up that topic again but I have a question about 'what is what'.

 

I recently bought one of those Fender Vibro-Champ XB 5-watt hybrid amps. It is a hybrid amp, of course, because although it is totally tube powered the built-in effects are solid state. I got to thinking (dangerous, I know) how the signal you'd get from it differs from one you'd get from a 'pure tube' amp going through a pedalboard of various solid-state effects pedals. As far as I can tell, the only difference is the fact that the pedalboard is 'outboard' whereas the built-in effects of the Champ are 'inboard'.

 

What do you guys think about this? And do we really get a pure 'tube sound' from a tube amp if we run the signal through solid state effects pedals?

[SweetMarie]

I never thought of it like that...but you're absolutely right!

The preamp voices come in before the tubes, which is exactly where your pedals would be.

 

I have the VibroChamp & the SuperChamp XD and I find both of them really nice amps.

[djroge1]

Ok' date=' we're are all familiar with the old 'tube amp vs. solid state' controversy and I'm not trying to open up that topic again but I have a question about 'what is what'.

 

I recently bought one of those Fender Vibro-Champ XB 5-watt hybrid amps. It is a hybrid amp, of course, because although it is totally tube powered the built-in effects are solid state. I got to thinking (dangerous, I know) how the signal you'd get from it differs from one you'd get from a 'pure tube' amp going through a pedalboard of various solid-state effects pedals. As far as I can tell, the only difference is the fact that the pedalboard is 'outboard' whereas the built-in effects of the Champ are 'inboard'.

 

What do you guys think about this? And do we really get a pure 'tube sound' from a tube amp if we run the signal through solid state effects pedals?[/quote']

 

yes in what you say there is no difference.

 

I'm more curious about what they wrote about this amp on their web page:

"Its solid-state overdrive and distortion eliminate many of the preamp tube problems that plague tube lovers while providing exemplary tones for rock, blues, country, jazz, metal and more."

 

They state it is a "solid-state overdrive and distortion" which to me sounds like it is more than a solid state tube screamer. Also what does "preamp tube problems" refer to? I don't have any problems.

 

And do we really get a pure 'tube sound' from a tube amp if we run the signal through solid state effects pedals?

 

No. Anytime you go thru other devices you no longer have a pure guitar & amp tone.

[tulsaslim]

yes in what you say there is no difference.

 

I'm more curious about what they wrote about this amp on their web page:

"Its solid-state overdrive and distortion eliminate many of the preamp tube problems that plague tube lovers while providing exemplary tones for rock' date=' blues, country, jazz, metal and more."

 

They state it is a "solid-state overdrive and distortion" which to me sounds like it is more than a solid state tube screamer. Also what does "preamp tube problems" refer to? I don't have any problems.

 

 

 

No. Anytime you go thru other devices you no longer have a pure guitar & amp tone.[/quote']

 

That's my take, too. Now I will say that any signal, regardless of whether it's going through any pedals sounds better coming out of a tube amp than it does out of a solid state amp but I'm willing to bet the vast majority of us using tube amps are still feeding a pedal-influenced signal into it.

 

And I have no idea what they're talking about when they say 'preamp tube problems' either.

[milod]

When I was doing the rock and country band thing, I'll admit I was always in fear of breaking tubes, especially when it was colder than -20F. In that sense, I'll freely admit I see some real advantages for solid state.

 

On the other hand, I guess I don't care so much to get involved in a "tube vs ss" debate because it seems to me that every amp sounds a bit different. Different speakers, different cabs, different tubes if it's a tube jobbie and different "other electronics" regardless.

 

"Real" spring reverb? Like, what's spring reverb got to do with the "real" world outside the box of an amplifier?

 

Were there a "perfect" amp that gives a "pure" guitar-amp sound, we'd have only one brand or at minimum, one sort of combination of cab, electonics and speaker.

 

My old tube jobby and its predecessor had enough dials and switches to change the sound quite a bit. That's "pure?"

 

It seems there's more "thickness" to the sound one gets from a tube amp - but I can't forget that some guys did about everything possible to get rid of that same thing. Get an amp with a "bright" switch, dump most of the bass and mids...

 

Then we can argue speaker brands and sizes that may have as much to do with the sound as the electronics driving them. The cab plays into that too. How 'bout adding a treble horn like acoustic amps tend to have?

 

The ad you're talking about sounds like folks who are more interested in overdrive and distortion than any sort of "pure" amp sound. As in, how do you set up the amp's preamp section compared to the master volume to get some sort of sound. Sheesh, I was always trying NOT to get overdrive and distortion, even playing rock back in the day.

 

I wear a little box outside my ss amp to thicken the sound to more closely emulate "tube," but it's probably as much to cover the limitations of a 10-inch speaker as anything. I also worry a lot less about lugging the amp in bad weather and my back appreciates the lesser weight. <grin>

 

m

[dbreslauer]

With tubes, you can also have pre-amp overdrive vs. power amp overdrive. My homemade 18Watt clone just starts to sound sweet as the windows start rattling. ;-)

 

I think that with hybrid amps, the digital signal processing being prior to the power amp, technically you could still consider it to be "outboard", even though it is built into the same box. When you fully bypass the effects, can you still control gain, tone and volume into the power amp?

 

fascinating stuff!

 

Don

[tulsaslim]

With tubes' date=' you can also have pre-amp overdrive vs. power amp overdrive. My homemade 18Watt clone just starts to sound sweet as the windows start rattling. ;-)

 

I think that with hybrid amps, the digital signal processing being prior to the power amp, technically you could still consider it to be "outboard", even though it is built into the same box. When you fully bypass the effects, can you still control gain, tone and volume into the power amp?

 

fascinating stuff!

 

Don[/quote']

 

With the Vibro Champ XD you can bypass the effects but must use one of the 16 modeling 'voices'. I must admit Fender has done a very good job of emulating their Champ, Bassman, Blackface, and Hot Rod models and, of course it sounds like a tube amp since it's totally tube powered. I'm pretty darn impressed with it, to be honest, but I haven't tried it with recording yet.

 

It does have a Gain, Volume, Treble, and Bass controls in addition to the 'voices' knob, the effects knob, and an effects level knob.

 

I think an 18 watter like yours is the perfect size. Enough watts to have enough volume to use the amp as your 'monitor' on stage (since you're no doubt miking it anyway), and to use for band practice, and low-enough wattage to break up the tubes before the cops come (if not too much to keep the windows from rattling :) ). Any more than that & you never get to the sweet spot unless you're playing a decent sized club.

 

You gotta figure that every year thousands of kids are hugely disappointed to discover that there's no place they can crank that 100-watt stack up loud enough to hit the sweet spot outside of a stadium or an arena.

[cwness]

The amp is not changing into a solidstate because you have SS pedals and

boards. It still comes out in a cord 1/4" that's only anolog. If your hear a difference

it's the pedal. Same with the XD Champ it's a tube amp. I called my guy and

that's what he told me.

 

CW