Mana Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 I'm a newbie - ready to take the plunge and special order a Custom Shop SJ-200 TV . . .it's taken me awhile but much thanks through this forum to Fred and Jack for their sound opinions! I believe I only have one question left for you Forum members who, like me, can't always mic your guitars and occasionally need to (hate to do it but) use onboard electronics. I would appreciate the benefit of anyone's experience whose gone/going down this path - I'm not sure yet what options Gibson offers as to pick-ups available as factory installations . . . Comments . . . I just don't want to lose any of that great Gibson tone . . . Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Hi Mana.... I have been very happy with the K & K Mini Western Pickups that are installed in both of my Gibson guitars. They are a passive pickup so no battery is needed inside the guitar. I have a LR Baggs PARA DI box that can be used as an external pre-amp, but with the K & K Mini's, I rarely need to boost the signal. They are wonderful little pickups that do not color the tone, are fairly easy to install (I had a luthier do it both times) and not expensive. The total cost for the pickup and install has been less than $200 each time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc McMaster Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Good for you! A custom ordered 200 ought to be a very fine instrument indeed! Though I am not a fan of onboard electronics of any kind, I will say that the K&K PWM mentioned above is among the best available and is, save the endpin jack, an invisible install. It's sound is very, very good and it requires no power source. Being a sound board transducer it is subject to feedback in high volume situations, but a soundhole feedback buster silences all of that. Very, very acoustic in tone, this one is hard to beat for a non-intrusive onboard system. Highly recommended by myself and many others on the forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Good for you! A custom ordered 200 ought to be a very fine instrument indeed! Though I am not a fan of onboard electronics of any kind' date=' I will say that the K&K PWM mentioned above is among the best available and is, save the endpin jack, an invisible install. It's sound is very, very good and it requires no power source. Being a sound board transducer it is subject to feedback in high volume situations, but a soundhole feedback buster silences all of that. Very, very acoustic in tone, this one is hard to beat for a non-intrusive onboard system. Highly recommended by myself and many others on the forum! [/quote'] Buc, slightly off topic but i wanted to ask you a couple questions about your CJ-165, because im GASing for one a bit right now. (1) Why did you choose this model (2) Why the rosewood and not the maple b/s (3) what are the electronics like and how does it sound plugged in. Really enjoyed your playing mate ! cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkharmony Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 From what I've read and what I've heard, there are really only two options (unless you want to go very extravagant and top-of-the-line): The aforementioned K&K Pure Western Mini and the LR Baggs iBeam. Somehow I've ended up with almost all LR Baggs systems in my guitars*, and I'm very happy with every one of their products. Highly recommend the iBeam, and lots of folks say the K&K is even better. I ended up choosing the iBeam over the K&K for two reasons: 1) the iBeam is powered (K&K is passive, though they say it makes no difference) and 2) the iBeam is what the luthier offers in that guitar if it's ordered with pickup (figured he would know best). *I've got two Element USTs factory installed, two Elements I installed myself, one iBeam, and I once had an M1 Active. Every one has been top-notch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc McMaster Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 (1) Why did you choose this model (2) Why the rosewood and not the maple b/s (3) what are the electronics like and how does it sound plugged in. A euro-aussie, eh? Otherside of the world kind of displacement...... My prior guitar was an SJ200 Western Classic, a big bruiser. As time (read "age") crept on me, I found the long scale of the 200 to be difficult to be efficient with. My hands aren't what they used to be. I found the CJ at a local shop and spent a couple hours flailing on it. It was sooo much more comfortable to play - short scale, small body - I sold the farm to take it home. The rosewood model just happened to be the one they had. Southpaws don't often have much to choose from in music retail stores. If I had my druthers I'd have a mahogany guitar, but I do really like this one in rosewood. Due to the smallish body it did have a mahogany kind of "thump" to it. A Tonerite treatment seemed to bring out more of the rosewood character, but it still lacks the big "wet" sound of a larger rosewood bodied guitar. It did have a Baggs system in it, perhaps the Element, but I removed it, lock stock and barrel. I have no use for onboard electronics anymore and I saw it as excess baggage. Overall it's a great little guitar that allows me to play things I could no longer handle on the long scale 200. It's very comfortable on the lap or on a strap.......great sofa guitar! It of course sounds nothing like the Western Classic, but it's not meant to. Last night I installed a new saddle to correct for the removal of the UST and as I played it furiously, I smiled to hear how loud this little thing is. And, unlike my 200, I cannot drive the guitar into "acoustic distortion" by hitting it hard. I will admit to being a heavy-handed player - I punish my instrument with both hands - and this compact jumbo refuses to be overdriven. Well-built and sonically solid, it's my only instrument and I am more than happy to have it. (Sorry for the hijack of the thread!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Thanks for the reply Buc, i think you made a good choice ! cheers. A euro-aussie' date=' eh? Otherside of the world kind of displacement...... My prior guitar was an SJ200 Western Classic, a big bruiser. As time (read "age") crept on me, I found the long scale of the 200 to be difficult to be efficient with. My hands aren't what they used to be. I found the CJ at a local shop and spent a couple hours flailing on it. It was sooo much more comfortable to play - short scale, small body - I sold the farm to take it home. The rosewood model just happened to be the one they had. Southpaws don't often have much to choose from in music retail stores. If I had my druthers I'd have a mahogany guitar, but I do really like this one in rosewood. Due to the smallish body it did have a mahogany kind of "thump" to it. A Tonerite treatment seemed to bring out more of the rosewood character, but it still lacks the big "wet" sound of a larger rosewood bodied guitar. It did have a Baggs system in it, perhaps the Element, but I removed it, lock stock and barrel. I have no use for onboard electronics anymore and I saw it as excess baggage. Overall it's a great little guitar that allows me to play things I could no longer handle on the long scale 200. It's very comfortable on the lap or on a strap.......great sofa guitar! It of course sounds nothing like the Western Classic, but it's not meant to. Last night I installed a new saddle to correct for the removal of the UST and as I played it furiously, I smiled to hear how loud this little thing is. And, unlike my 200, I cannot drive the guitar into "acoustic distortion" by hitting it hard. I will admit to being a heavy-handed player - I punish my instrument with both hands - and this compact jumbo refuses to be overdriven. Well-built and sonically solid, it's my only instrument and I am more than happy to have it. (Sorry for the hijack of the thread!) [/quote'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mana Posted July 13, 2010 Author Share Posted July 13, 2010 From what I've read and what I've heard' date=' there are really only two options (unless you want to go very extravagant and top-of-the-line): The aforementioned K&K Pure Western Mini and the LR Baggs iBeam. Somehow I've ended up with almost all LR Baggs systems in my guitars*, and I'm very happy with every one of their products. Highly recommend the iBeam, and lots of folks say the K&K is even better. I ended up choosing the iBeam over the K&K for two reasons: 1) the iBeam is powered (K&K is passive, though they say it makes no difference) and 2) the iBeam is what the luthier offers in that guitar if it's ordered with pickup (figured he would know best). *I've got two Element USTs factory installed, two Elements I installed myself, one iBeam, and I once had an M1 Active. Every one has been top-notch.[/quote'] Thanks for the help . . . the K&K's seem to be highly regarded . . .so if I wanted to go "very extravagant and top-of-the-line" what would be your choice - advice/opinion for the Sj-200 TV . . . thanks again for the education here . . .any insites you can fill me in on as to the characteristics of these different pick-up systems, and why one would be better for that guitar than another will really help make my decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkharmony Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Thanks for the help . . . the K&K's seem to be highly regarded . . .so if I wanted to go "very extravagant and top-of-the-line" what would be your choice - advice/opinion for the Sj-200 TV . . . thanks again for the education here . . .any insites you can fill me in on as to the characteristics of these different pick-up systems' date=' and why one would be better for that guitar than another will really help make my decision. [/quote'] Oh, there's a couple crazy systems that mix interior mic with soundboard sensors and all kinds of crazy stuff. LR Baggs makes a couple of those, and some other companies I dont know that well. I'm not a skilled enough player to need such delicate systems. For example: http://www.lrbaggs.com/anthem/anthem-sl.htm http://www.kksound.com/quantumtrinity.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 I've been very happy with the L R Baggs M1 active soundhole pickup system. The only mod required for fitting it is drilling the endpin hole. They sound great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dotneck Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Oh' date=' there's a couple crazy systems that mix interior mic with soundboard sensors and all kinds of crazy stuff. LR Baggs makes a couple of those, l[/quote'] They don't seem all that crazy to me...realize I'm brand new to acoustic pickups ...but with that caveat here is what I have learned. Lotsa people have not been real happy with many under-saddle transducers for acoustic guitar sound...for reasons like creating a quacky type tone and making all guitars sound pretty much the same with a generic acoustic voice. Some USTs are better than others....but they are easy to use and somewhat inexpensive. Of course, microphones make acoustic guitars sound best...but are hard to use in live situations. To remedy that problem internal mic systems have been developed that go inside the body of the guitar. Another "inside the box" solution are sound board transducers...that pick up sound directly from the guitar top but from inside the body. These systems often sound more natural and let the guitar's own voice be heard as compared to an UST. The "crazy mixing systems" just take both the above...a UST and a sound board transducer and combine them with a little mixer or crossover so you can combine the best of both pickup systems. Bagg's I-Mix combines their UST and a SBT with a mixer and volume/tone/mix control. I just bought a used version of the I-Mix which cost me about as much as an UST alone...and I'm thinking of installing it in my rosewood J-185 to see how it sounds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkharmony Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 They don't seem all that crazy to me... I didn't mean crazy as in bad; I'm sure they're awesome. I just meant crazy as in, more than I need and more than I want to spend. For most of my needs, a UST is fine. A K&KPWM or iBeam is more than sufficient for my needs. The iMix and other multiple input systems are just overkill for me, and I suspect a lot of folks, as I rarely hear about them on the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjl200 Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 I put a Fishman Infinity Matrix in my SJ200 . I run it through a Fishman Aura 16. The live sound is IMO great with the infinity and using it with the 16 you can get that desired mic'ed sound with out the associated work. Fishman Matrix Aura Sixteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Don't forget that the pickup is only part of the equation.... the acoustic amp you choose also is as, if not more, important. I have played through many different acoustic amps and found that my ears tend to prefer the Genz Benz and UltraSound products. I have owned both and kept the Genz Benz because it actually works like a mini PA system and has multiple instrument and mic inputs. The thing is, neither of these two amps color the sound unless you want to with effects. I have owned Crate and Trace acoustic amps in the past that were nowhere near the sound quality of my Genz Benz. I have played though Fender Acoustic amps, Roland acoustic amps and others also that left me wanting more. A great guitar with a great pickup can still sound like crap through a crappy amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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