Are the collectors ruining the used guitar market?

[Notes_Norton]

Another thread on this forum got me to thinking. Especially when Melody-Makers are bringing in big bucks.

 

Are the collectors ruining the used guitar market?

 

I mean does the collector's value of the "vintage" guitar exceed it's practical value from a musical standpoint?

 

Aren't old guitars simply used guitars? Especially the lower-end older models?

 

I know that comparing my 1970 ES-330 which I bought for $300 and is now worth $4,000 - $5,000 with my 2001 Casino which I bought for $425; I don't find the Gibson to be 10 times better than the Casino and therefore worth 10 times as much as the Casino. At least from a players standpoint. I'd say that from a play-ability standpoint, the Casino is 99% as good as the 330, but the 330 looks a little better (see picture below).

 

When I bought my 330, it was just a used guitar, now it is a collectors item. I don't bring it on stage anymore, because doubling on sax, guitar, flute, wind synth, and vocals and having to sometimes change instruments in a hurry is an accident waiting to happen.

 

The necks on both are great ... the sound of both amplified sound very similar (actually the Casino sounds a little better, but that could be because the pups are adjusted higher) ... the 330 does sound more mellow as an acoustic guitar - but other than for practice I don't use it that way ... the 330 has real MOP inlays ... the Casino has a nicer finish as the 330 has checked with age ... the 330 does have higher fret access - but for the kind of music I play, I don't need it ... and to tell you the truth, if someone were to offer me one ES330 or ten Casinos, I'd take the Casinos.

 

 

 

 

Does the outlandish prices of "vintage" guitars keep some young students from enjoying a quality instrument?

 

Just thinking out loud here. I haven't made up my mind about it yet. What do you think?

 

Insights and incites by Notes

[rscott4079]

Sometimes I watch Antiques Roadshow on PBS. I'm always amazed when some flower vase that sold for 10 bucks in the 1920's is now a "fine example of American Craftsmanship" and sells for 10 grand. That's whats happening with vintage guitars, their collector value is greater than their musical value.

 

That good news is that, in my opinion, the guitars being made today by Gibson, Martin, Fender and even the boutique makers are some of the best instruments ever built.

 

I think of it as the young sons have grown up to take over the business, now the old Granpa's can sit back and enjoy a happy retirement.

[Notes_Norton]

<...>

That good news is that' date=' in my opinion, the guitars being made today by Gibson, Martin, Fender and even the boutique makers are some of the best instruments ever built.

<...>[/quote']

 

You have a good point. The technology of making instruments is better today than it was in the 50s. Half a century of progress in tools and materials coupled with feedback from musicians using the products must have added up to something.

 

I know in the sax world, the Selmer MarkVI is the "holy grail" of collectors saxophones. I owned one at one time, sure it was a good sax, but for what you pay for a 1950's or 60's Mark VI, you could buy 5-10 new saxophones. And with computer aided design, the intonation on the new saxophones is better than it was back in the 50-60s.

 

On the other hand, I'm glad I bought my 330 when it was considered an "old guitar" instead of a "collectors item".

 

Notes

[NeoConMan]

Good stuff guys!

If you are fortunate enough to be on the "I got mine" side of the coin, take care of your babies!

 

I don't have to go any further than the Les Pauls - and ESPECIALLY Strats - built in the seventies.

Were they any good?

It wasn't even ten years ago my dealer had them stacked like firewood in his store and couldn't GIVE them away.

They had such a bad reputation for cost-cutting and shortcuts during construction, nobody would touch them.

Some of those guitars were actually not too bad, but were regarded as junk anyway by most.

 

Now, how times have changed.....

There are a few seventies LP Customs hanging in the store, in pretty good shape with a $3,000 tag on them.

They've sold several like that.

 

The Strats and Teles are easy $2,500 in any kind of condition, seems the Relic craze has rescued their value. (???)

I was looking for an old '72 Tele Deluxe with Fender humbuckers last year, even they were $2,500 in good shape.

 

I don't know if I would say the market has been "ruined" but it will never sustain such prices.

I see a few things possible from here.

 

1.

The most prized and coveted collector pieces will be snatched up, making them more rare in the market. The price will find some sort of equilibium and sorta hang out there. These are the Blue Chip guitars, good as gold.

 

2.

The market will continue a run up with speculation drawing even the most horrid models up with them.

You know, the oddball, fringe, never-should-have-been-built crap that ALL makers did?

They will become stupid expensive before people finally say "Hey, this thing is JUNK!" and the word spreads....

 

3.

The decent, used, well-cared for but not as desireable guitars are in the middle. Who knows about them in the long run?

 

4.

Everybody will become a collectibles "expert" and jump into the market with 15 year old Korean made guitars.

Internet commerce will allow them to make a buck or two.

 

5.

Like the housing market over the years from city to city, or the exotic/muscle car craze of the late eighties, we'll see who's left holding the bag after the inevitable market correction is made.

 

6.

The people who take it the shorts because they've been had will cry and whine "Woe is me!!!"

 

I dunno.

Caveat Emptor never went out of style...

 

Looks like I'm stuck, along with 95% of the guitar buyers.

I'm in the category of buying reissues because I can't afford the real deal anymore.

Sure, I wish I could afford alot of those guitars but I think they are legitimately priced to a degree.

I also wish I could afford a Lear Jet and a Shelby 427 Cobra - sold new for a paltry $7,000 in 1967!

 

Look how few Les Pauls were sold in 1959 for less than $300.

Most people could not afford them then, or thought the price was too high.

Ironical, eh?

[rybass]

Don't forget the cool factor. I can't say much for my ability but I have met many a fellow who could nar play a lick that owns a number of vintage guitars, 70's Fenders namely, they were picked up for less than $500 15 years ago. And now they sit in jam circles and small guitar shops dropping years and models and "relicing" and magically they are "amazing" guitarists just based on the gear they own.

 

And I am no better; I fell into the hype and purchased and abused strat for way to much and carried to to some jams and was the center of attention and all of a sudden guys are talking to me like I have some new found ability and my tone is outstanding. I was even asked to sit in on a couple recording sessions. This never happened before when I had my '06 Faded SG but a '79 strat with horrible fret buzz and a middle pickup that didn't work was the key to my success as a local musician. I sold her about 6 months ago, for a sizeable profit, and I have faded into the back of the pack once again.

 

It's been called "mojo" and apparently it's contagious. Owners of these guitars magically become skilled because the guitar has seen better days. Others notice this and want to catch "mojo" also so they buy one and used guitar dealers see this and raise the price of the disease causing more hysteria and widespread "mojo" cravings.

 

Will the hype stick around? I don't know. Now that companies are making affordable new relics and fadeds I think it will become cliche and either the hype will die or the truely relic'd and old will continue to sky rocket while the fakes will dwindle and lose value for 20+ years until they are closet classics then they will be unattainable.