Removing Bridge Saddles?!?

[theapex]

I can't for the life of me figure out how to remove the saddles from the Tune-O-Matic bridge of my Casino Elitist! I've searched high and low online with no results.

 

As it stands, it's seeming physically impossible to remove due to the pin (the tip of the screw) being in one side of the bridge while the other side has an "attached washer" thing preventing the screw from slipping out the other way.

 

I mean, there's obviously a way to remove it, otherwise it would have been impossible to put in in the first place.

 

I'm just wanting to flip the positioning of the G strings saddle due to intonation issues but the saddle is not wanting to budge. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

 

PS: I'm sure I can force it out, but I just want to make sure it's the proper procedure before I go and start prying the thing apart.

[RotcanX]

Hmmm... it doesn't have that wire retainer across all six saddle screws?

[layboomo]

Just gently pull the lock washer off with a needlenose pliers......they come on and off quite easily if it's the kind I think it is.

[layboomo]

Hmmm... it doesn't have that wire retainer across all six saddle screws?

 

Spud if it's what I think it is...I have the same setup on one of my peavey's and it just has a little lock washer on each screw instead of the retainer clip.

[theapex]

Yes, it does have the retaining wire across the top .. but I removed that in the process of trying to remove the saddles. Having said that, it seems like it wasn't doing much because the saddles won't budge either way .. whether it's in place or not.

 

As for the lock washers .. they are removable?!? I'm going to give that a shot now I guess. They don't LOOK removable though. As I turn the screws though, they seem to go all the way around the screw ... ie: they don't have a missing section to pull it off with (full O's and not C's).

 

I'll give it a shot and let you know how I make out. Thanks for the quick help, by the way! Nice forum!

 

PS: Just to clarify ... it's TOTALLY STOCK 2007 Epiphone Casino Elitist.

[layboomo]

Yes' date=' it does have the retaining wire across the top .. but I removed that in the process of trying to remove the saddles. Having said that, it seems like it wasn't doing much because the saddles won't budge either way .. whether it's in place or not.

 

As for the lock washers .. they are removable?!? I'm going to give that a shot now I guess. They don't LOOK removable though. As I turn the screws though, they seem to go all the way around the screw ... ie: they don't have a missing section to pull it off with (full O's and not C's).

 

I'll give it a shot and let you know how I make out. Thanks for the quick help, by the way! Nice forum!

 

PS: Just to clarify ... it's TOTALLY STOCK 2007 Epiphone Casino Elitist.[/quote']

 

NO if it has the clip wire across the top That's all that you need to remove to take the saddles out......I misunderstood what you had.

[theapex]

Hey no problem. So are you saying I should just be able to yank really hard and it should pull out somehow? Again, I can't seem to pull the screw out of the little end hole enough to pull the whole thin out. What I'm saying is, that I can't ANGLE the screw enough to maneuver it out due to this "Washer" type thing that is "gripping" the screw side of the saddle. I don't know if I'm explaining it clearly.

 

Here's is a makeshift diagram of what I'm talking about.

 

[.] = the bridge frame

 

 

|

|| = saddle

|/

 

 

(]==||====--- = screw (with that "spacer" or "holder" washer thing attached to it.

 

 

....... = placeholder so the message board doesn't format out the spaces. Disregard these.

 

 

...[.]............[.]

...[.]............[.]

...[.].....|....[.]

(]==||=||==---

...[.].....|/....[.]

...[.]............[.]

...[.]............[.]

 

 

Again, I don't think that washer thing is removable because it turns as I turn the screw.

 

PS: Wow. This thing is tight. I'm thinking if I pull it out I may have troubles putting it back in. I really have to put a lot of force into it. Why is it this snug? What's even the point of the retaining wire?!? Should I keep going at it? I've moved it about a mm away from the butt end of the screw slot. Probably a 2 - 3 more mm's before it comes out/off.

[Bill V]

You need to back the adjustment screw out enough so that the tip of the screw is not in the hole at the front edge of the bridge. The saddle will come out, though you may have to gently coax it.

[theapex]

You need to back the adjustment screw out enough so that the tip of the screw is not in the hole at the front edge of the bridge. The saddle will come out' date=' though you may have to gently coax it.[/quote']

 

This is what I was assuming, but I can't "back the screw out" at all. The tip of the screw (which looks like the common watch wrist band link assembly screw thing) is firmly in it's place. How can I pull the screw tip out of that hole if that "washer" thing is attached to the screw? It's already flush with the bridge frame so I can't screw it out any more (at least I think I can't).

 

Perhaps I'm missing something because this definitely seems far more difficult than I think it should be (effort wise). This is my first time with a tune-o-matic bridge bit it seems simple enough, it's just the physicality of it that I don't understand. How was this even put together? Again, I'm obviously missing something here.

 

Currently I have the actual saddle screwed to the MIDDLE of it's travel - as you can see in my diagram above. Should it be somewhere else? At one end perhaps?

[layboomo]

 

This is what I was assuming' date=' but I can't "back the screw out" at all. The tip of the screw (which looks like the common watch wrist band link assembly screw thing) is firmly in it's place. How can I pull the screw tip out of that hole if that "washer" thing is attached to the screw? It's already flush with the bridge frame so I can't screw it out any more (at least I think I can't).

 

Perhaps I'm missing something because this definitely seems far more difficult than I think it should be (effort wise). This is my first time with a tune-o-matic bridge bit it seems simple enough, it's just the physicality of it that I don't understand. How was this even put together? Again, I'm obviously missing something here.

 

Currently I have the actual saddle screwed to the MIDDLE of it's travel - as you can see in my diagram above. Should it be somewhere else? At one end perhaps?[/quote']

 

With the saddle in the middle of its travel and the retainer clip off..... the screw head end should pop right out of the slot with a little help(upward pressure)....then going back in you catch the screw tip in the hole first and gently snap it back ito the slot.

[theapex]

With the saddle in the middle of its travel and the retainer clip off..... the screw head end should pop right out of the slot with a little help(upward pressure)....then going back in you catch the screw tip in the hole first and gently snap it back ito the slot.

 

This is what I was trying to do but it required a LOT of force. I'm sure if I'd keep going at it, it would eventually snap out .. but I think I'll just leave it the way it is. Maybe it's that it's new and has never been tampered with that it's so tight .. but again, I don't want to risk damaging anything.

 

The way I've been TRYING to get it out is to stick the slot driver into the screw head and turn it so that it's parallel with the body of the guitar. Then I use THAT straight edge (along with the screwdriver) to firmly pull up away from the body. As mentioned, I managed to budge it up about a mm .. but it gets even tighter at that point. Then to push it back, I again have to use a bit of force, albeit, not as much as when trying to pull it out).

 

So I guess that's that. I'm afraid if I DO manage to pop it out, I'll have a hell of a time forcing it back in there. I'd be better off just replacing the entire bridge.

 

~

 

My initial problem was not being able to lengthen the G string enough. The maximum position of the G saddle was not enough, which is why I was planning on flipping the actual saddle to gain a bit of extra "length". I guess that's not happening now. When in tune, the g string plays sharply at the 12th fret. When the saddle is at it's maximum setting .. it's ALMOST good, but just not quite. I'm almost certain that bridge flip would work .. but yeah .. it's crazy tight!

 

Thanks for the help everyone! Short of flipping the entire bridge, it looks like my only options is to look for a new/better bridge.

 

PS: And I still don't know what the point of that retaining wire is! :) These screws/saddles aren't going anywhere any time soon!

 

PPS: For the time being, I've put on a wound 3rd strings and it's done the trick. I actually had to pull the saddle BACK from the edge now. The saddle is actually in a functional location ie: Not right up at the end. This should do for now. Again, thanks for the help everyone!

[layboomo]

 

This is what I was trying to do but it required a LOT of force. I'm sure if I'd keep going at it' date=' it would eventually snap out .. but I think I'll just leave it the way it is. Maybe it's that it's new and has never been tampered with that it's so tight .. but again, I don't want to risk damaging anything.

 

The way I've been TRYING to get it out is to stick the slot driver into the screw head and turn it so that it's parallel with the body of the guitar. Then I use THAT straight edge (along with the screwdriver) to firmly pull up away from the body. As mentioned, I managed to budge it up about a mm .. but it gets even tighter at that point. Then to push it back, I again have to use a bit of force, albeit, not as much as when trying to pull it out).

 

So I guess that's that. I'm afraid if I DO manage to pop it out, I'll have a hell of a time forcing it back in there. I'd be better off just replacing the entire bridge.

 

 

~

 

My initial problem was not being able to lengthen the G string enough. The maximum position of the G saddle was not enough, which is why I was planning on flipping the actual saddle to gain a bit of extra "length". I guess that's not happening now. When in tune, the g string plays sharply at the 12th fret. When the saddle is at it's maximum setting .. it's ALMOST good, but just not quite. I'm almost certain that bridge flip would work .. but yeah .. it's crazy tight!

 

Thanks for the help everyone! Short of flipping the entire bridge, it looks like my only options is to look for a new/better bridge.

 

PS: And I still don't know what the point of that retaining wire is! :) These screws/saddles aren't going anywhere any time soon![/quote']

 

 

 

 

Thats really odd that they are that tight in the slot.......most ABR-1 saddles will fall right out when you remove the retainer wire. The slot on the screw is just machined on most of them and the tolerance must be VERY tight on yours? It looks like this correct http://www.kts-america.com/products/pr01.html ?

[theapex]

Yes .. it looks like that. You can see the "washer" part on the screw there that keeps it steady I guess (in this case, TOO steady). Perhaps I can try prying it more later .. but yes, i's DEFINITELY tight as heck. So yeah, maybe that slot in the screw is too tight? I don't know. But one thing or another is definitely holding the screws/saddles in place. I was both assuming and hoping they'd just fall out. Would make sense that way.

 

When I look at the bridge from the top, that slot in the screw looks to be rather flush with the bridge frame it encompasses. This leads me to believe it is what is not allowing me to angle the screw enough to pull it out from the hole at the other end. If there was more play at that end, I could coax the tip out. With it being this flush, I can't see angling it and removing it without considerable force and definite metal-on-metal pressure/dragging ... and who knows, maybe with a slip of a tool, a nice big gash in the top of the sunburst Casino. :)

[layboomo]

Yes .. it looks like that. You can see the "washer" part on the screw there that keeps it steady I guess (in this case' date=' TOO steady). Perhaps I can try prying it more later .. but yes, i's DEFINITELY tight as heck. So yeah, maybe that slot in the screw is too tight? I don't know. But one thing or another is definitely holding the screws/saddles in place. I was both assuming and hoping they'd just fall out. Would make sense that way.

 

When I look at the bridge from the top, that slot in the screw looks to be rather flush with the bridge frame it encompasses. This leads me to believe it is what is not allowing me to angle the screw enough to pull it out from the hole at the other end. If there was more play at that end, I could coax the tip out. With it being this flush, I can't see angling it and removing it without considerable force and definite metal-on-metal pressure/dragging ... and who knows, maybe with a slip of a tool, a nice big gash in the top of the sunburst Casino. :)[/quote']

 

 

"angling it and removing it without considerable force and definite metal-on-metal pressure/dragging ... and who knows, maybe with a slip of a tool, a nice big gash in the top of the sunburst Casino"

 

Why aren't you taking the bridge off the guitar to do this??? Something's not adding up here...Hmmmmm....Youre not trying to do this with the strings on are you?

[theapex]

StringS on ... yes ..

 

StrinG on .. no ..

 

As in, I've taken the string off of that particular saddle .. the other 5 are still in place. Are you implying removing ALL the strings will somehow make the entire assembly simply fall apart? I haven't taken ALL the strings off and tried it like that, no. Shall I? Am I doing this completely wrong?

[GuitarGuru]

I took one off and lost it. Can I get a replacement set of lock washers?

[Whitmore Willy]

I took one off and lost it. Can I get a replacement set of lock washers?

G.G.

 

Welcome to the forum!

Appreciate the time it must have taken for you to research old threads before asking.

Still, feel free to start new threads. A four year old thread with 15 confusing posts normally would not help

to get you an answer. Frankly, I don't know if Apex ever did get it figured out.

So....Let's start fresh.

 

If you are willing to stick with this for a couple of posts, maybe we can come up with an answer.

Pics would help but, if you don't have any I'll put a couple up a bit later.

 

First....Are we talking about a Nashville style bridge as opposed to an ABR-1? I believe that was what was causing

the previous confusion. They are, after all, both tune-o-matics.

 

Next... When you talk about lock washers (this is where pics help) are you referring to the retainer snap rings around the

neck of the screws on a Nashville bridge?

 

Once we're on the same page, I'm might be of assistance. If not, possibly others will.

 

Willy

[Whitmore Willy]

I'm Back....

 

Is this what we are talking about?

 

 

 

Willy

[rob100]

Wow...old post, so this guy has probably already figured it out; but I had the same problem and maybe I can help somebody else. The saddle screws on my Epi pop right out after I remove the retainer wire, but they just would not come out on my Gibson.

 

To make it happen, I pulled up (with some force) on the screw head side (not the pointy end) and it finally came out. Pulling up at an angle lets it slide out. To make sure I didn't force too hard or scratch anything with metal on metal or metal on paint (if you're adjusting intonation or something and just want to flip 1 saddle); I used the open end of a string winder to get them out and pushed down with a heavy pick under my thumb to put it back in (pointy end 1st when putting it back in).