Tuners change for Dot

[toha]

Hey folks,

 

I have problem with my Dot. Detune really fast. I`m thinking to change tuners to Gibsons.

Please advise what tuners fit the best?

[Chefman]

I replaced my Grovers on my Dot with Gotoh's on the advice of my guitar tech. Do a google search on Gotoh part number TK 7740-010. It is a perfect fit and requires no modification. 18:1 gears, they work great. I saw them anywhere from $37 to $59 on the interwebs.

 

Hope that helps.:D/

[lostindesert]

Have you any experience putting on new strings properly on the tuners and then stretching them in ?

Have you checked the nut for correct cut nutslots so the strings don't get stuck.

Most tuning problems have nothing to do with the tuners.

 

Peter

[eNo]

Toha… you are certainly on the right track… Replace those tuners!!! I have owned a Dot, Dot Deluxe, EJ-200, Les Paul, Riviera, and a cheap dreadnought all from Epi and each one of them had crap tuners!!! I personal really like the Gibson Deluxe keystone tuners... they are awesome. I put them on my EJ-200 about 2 months ago and they stay in tune for a really long time. The difference is HUGE!!!!

 

The Dot’s come with Grovers I believe, so if you switch to the Gibson Deluxe like I did the holes are the right size but the mounting screws are a little different. So you’ll have to plug the old holes and drill new ones. Now the Gibson tuners will cover the old holes so you won’t see them after install, but you still need to plug them because they are too close to the new holes you will need to drill. Heres a post about my current Dot Deluxe project where I did that… pictures included.

 

http://forums.epiphone.com/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=5990

 

 

Other wise you can just get better tuners that use the same mounting holes… like Gotoh's. They work really nice too.

 

Good Luck!

[TWANG]

I've had five epis here in the last year and none of them with grovers had any problem at all.

I put grovers on all the strats and teles I build, and sell them all the time to epi and other guitar users, with no complaints at all.

 

non grover epis, as were on my sheraton originally, were not so hot.

the difference between them and grovers was dramatic.

 

grovers have a lifetime warranty.

Grovers have an 18:1 ratio and were one of the first to offer it.

 

Strings 'detuning' to me says, they go flat. And that aint no tuner problem, jack.

I've never even seen a tuner that would slip save for extremely cheap open geared stuff, and outright chinese junk.

 

Stretch your strings. Make sure they aren't binding at the nut while you tune.

Be sure they are wrapped around the posts correctly.. too many windings or no loop under and you'll detune easy as pie.

 

I've got nothing against Gotohs, I sell them as well Grovers and Klusons and Sperzels.

But I've got a big problem with anyone who says Grovers are not up to snuff.. because I've used so very many sets.

 

This does not sound at all like a tuner problem to me.

You might want to check your intonation while you're at it!

 

TWANG

[eNo]

I've had five epis here in the last year and none of them with grovers had any problem at all.

I put grovers on all the strats and teles I build' date=' and sell them all the time to epi and other guitar users, with no complaints at all.

 

non grover epis, as were on my sheraton originally, were not so hot.

the difference between them and grovers was dramatic.

 

grovers have a lifetime warranty.

Grovers have an 18:1 ratio and were one of the first to offer it.

 

Strings 'detuning' to me says, they go flat. And that aint no tuner problem, jack.

I've never even seen a tuner that would slip save for extremely cheap open geared stuff, and outright chinese junk.

 

Stretch your strings. Make sure they aren't binding at the nut while you tune.

Be sure they are wrapped around the posts correctly.. too many windings or no loop under and you'll detune easy as pie.

 

I've got nothing against Gotohs, I sell them as well Grovers and Klusons and Sperzels.

But I've got a big problem with anyone who says Grovers are not up to snuff.. because I've used so very many sets.

 

This does not sound at all like a tuner problem to me.

You might want to check your intonation while you're at it!

 

TWANG[/quote']

 

Well, your experience with stock tuners is different than mine. Thats cool... too each his own. I got nothing against nice Grover tuners... got a killer set from Stew-Mac on my strat. I just don't like any of the ones that have come stock on my Epi's... they leave much to be desired in my opinion.

 

While intonation may be an issue... I find that most of the time chronic de-tuning is caused from poor nutslots or even just bad plastic nuts. But I think there is a discernable difference between chronic rapid de-tuning (which would indicate something wrong the guitar or even user error) and the added performance of a high quality tuner. I would assume that if one was indeed experiencing chronic rapid de-tuning that the controllable variables would be examined... which would include (as has been discussed in many threads already) guitar set-up, intonation, string installation and tuning techniques. After which would leave changing hardware (bridges, nuts, tailpieces & tuners) as a viable option. And in my experience a rather rewarding one! Personally, I believe Epiphones beg to be upgraded…

[TWANG]

binding at the nut can be severe.. and if a string isn't wound and locked around the shaft, or if there are many more windings than needed, you can experience rapid detuning from either of these.

 

I haven't found any difference in the grovers.. stock or ordered as sets.

I have found non grover epi tuners to be less than I wanted. But I even used my sheris for 15 years before I swapped them.

 

I don't know what you mean by a bad plastic nut.. it either binds or it has no effect on tuning, save for what it can do to intonation, but that would be stable.

 

stringing technique comes in second.. after proper nut slot tightness and string post winding.

After that, the only thing that could make the string detune rapidly is if there is movement at the shaft of the tuner.

That's highly unlikely with grovers, and something I've never seen even on cheaper tuners.

 

Old tuners with stripped gears may do that. Enough freeplay in the gears and they wont hold.

cheap tuners which don't get spec parts, same deal.

But epis? grovers? I've just never seen a tuner on an epi, even the special II that would do that.

 

 

Intonation would have no effect like detuning... it would just not be tuned.

 

I upgrade mine that's for sure.

It seems I never stop. But it's not mechanical performance that has ever bothered me. Just tone.

 

I have heard people say the stock epi grovers are not the same grovers you get in a package.

I haven't seen any difference, or felt any difference..and I'm not sure why tuners made in china in the first place would swap out components

as small as a gear or cog.. you wouldn't even save a dime doing that.

 

Also, he doesn't say how many strings. If it's more than one, you can bet it's not the tuners, I'd say.

The chance of someone getting more than one bad tuner, of almost any major brand is really slight.

 

But, we'll see. Maybe he's just got gas.. I know that feeling!

Esp. right after this beer.

 

TWANG

[tulsaslim]

Check out these bad boys. They look so cool on those giant Epi headstocks. Really. Extremely cool.

 

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Grover_Super_Rotomatics.html

[Ron G]

FWIW, my 2007 Dot Studio has Jinho tuning machines that look like Grovers, and they work just fine. My take is also that your tuners are not the problem.

[bluesman345]

I have locking Grover Rotomatics on my MIK Epi Zephyr Blues Deluxe (swapped out stock Epi gold-plated tuners). Today, I am swapping out the stock Grover Rotomatics on my MIK Epi '56 Goldtop Les Paul for the locking Grovers. They look and fit exactly like the regular ones, except for the locking mechanism on the post. GraphTech String Saver saddles would be a good idea on the bridge. You can also go for a Gotoh "Nashville" type bridge - I have one on both guitars. A GraphTech graphite or Tusq nut would also help. BTW, I was told that Grover is owned by Gotoh. Any comments?

[jcwillow777]

I have locking Grover Rotomatics on my MIK Epi Zephyr Blues Deluxe (swapped out stock Epi gold-plated tuners). Today' date=' I am swapping out the stock Grover Rotomatics on my MIK Epi '56 Goldtop Les Paul for the locking Grovers. They look and fit exactly like the regular ones, except for the locking mechanism on the post. GraphTech String Saver saddles would be a good idea on the bridge. You can also go for a Gotoh "Nashville" type bridge - I have one on both guitars. A GraphTech graphite or Tusq nut would also help. BTW, I was told that Grover is owned by Gotoh. Any comments?[/quote']

 

Bluesman - is that a B5 on the Gold Top LP in your avatar? How about a better picture. I have been thinking about putting a Bigsby on my Gold Top LP. What did you do to cover the tailpiece holes?

 

Thanks

[TWANG]

Check out these bad boys. They look so cool on those giant Epi headstocks. Really. Extremely cool.

 

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar' date='_solid_peghead_tuners/Grover_Super_Rotomatics.html[/quote']

 

yeah.. I've got the gold ones on my sheraton. Looks perfect with that big headstock all that inlay and multi ply binding.

 

tunes 100% better, now, too.

 

TWANG

[bluesman345]

 

Bluesman - is that a B5 on the Gold Top LP in your avatar? How about a better picture. I have been thinking about putting a Bigsby on my Gold Top LP. What did you do to cover the tailpiece holes?

 

Thanks

 

Hi! Sorry about the picture - I used it to make a t-shirt transfer - need to take some close-ups.

Yes, that's a genuine Bigsby B5. It's really sweet. The Bigsby site recommends the commonly installed long-tail models (B7, B70, B12), but my tech didn't like how much sticks out from the bottom of the guitar. Other than angling up slightly with the maple cap, the B5 fits perfectly, as it is secured by screws in 4 places. The roller keeps the tension just right.

Unfortunately, the threaded sockets for the tailpiece are still intact. My tech was going to fill them in and cap them with Perloid, but he had trouble getting the material at the time, and we just forgot about it. Besides, I saw a picture of Keith Richards' LP with a Bigsby, and he had left the holes there as well. It still looks good.

Cheers!=P~/