Taylor Player Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I have been doing a considerable amount of research and price checking to see what the Kalamazoo Casino's are worth in today's (struggling) guitar market and come to the conclusion that a nice "collector" condition is WAY out of my price range. I have an opportunity to possibly purchase a Mid 60's one that the owner told me has had a cracked but professionally repaired neck and is missing the inlay at the 5th fret. He is asking $2000 currently (down from $3300 when he originally listed it). Apparently a local shop told him "as is" it was worth $1700 to $2000 and then made him some sort of offer... (I am guessing much less than the appraisal value). It also has a fairly good ding on the front of the guitar, does not have the original case but comes with a period correct case missing the handle. I have not had the opportunity to see it yet and his photos were too small to see where the crack was and if it looked to be a professional repair. I figured I would ask the experts if I am nuts thinking he is still asking too much for this guitar? I can't imagine a collector wanting it with the existing problems especially a repaired neck and that it could appeal to only a player like me who won't be gigging with it and just playing it at home. Any thoughts on what I should offer? I should also say he was looking for a USA built Strat in trade originally, and I offered up my 1995 Eric Clapton Strat which is in mint condition with no blemishes at all (9.5 out of 10 condition). Then others told him it was worth much more than what he was asking but he doesn't mention in his ad anything about the neck crack or missing inlay. It has the original Tremonti type tremolo and may or may not have the butter knife arm and also the pickguard may or may not be missing. He has to find where he put them he said.... The guy said it has been in his family for years and was passed down from his dad to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Good question If you get an opportunity to play the guitar and it feels solid, and you can live with the repairs performed to it. I would say go for it. The 60's Casino are not all that far removed from the newer Elitist Casinos in feel.... Personally I think the newer ones sound better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stig Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Maybe keep an eye on this one and see where it goes. casino on ebay Here's a perfect 1968 model (Those are url links above. It's kind of hard to tell.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 that one will hit $3000 plus... It's in fantastic shape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Maybe keep an eye on this one and see where it goes.casino on ebay Yeah, I saw that during my research. My guess is it will raise quite a bit before ending, but I still have not seen one that had larger issues like the neck or missing inlay. To me, that should qualify for a fairly hefty discount off the price. I have a luthier friend who builds beautiful acoustic guitars and is very good at inlay so getting that fixed would be fairly cheap. My head says that my USA built Clapton Signature Strat is a much better guitar overall, but being mostly an acoustic player and never to be a lead electric kind of player (I play fingerstyle acoustic stuff mostly) I don't use it nearly to it's potential. My heart says, try to trade for the Casino because it is a very cool guitar and I love the Beatles and Keith Richards connections. (I play a bunch of that kind of music as it is what I grew up on). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stig Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Yeah' date=' I saw that during my research. My guess is it will raise quite a bit before ending, but I still have not seen one that had larger issues like the neck or missing inlay. To me, that should qualify for a fairly hefty discount off the price. I have a luthier friend who builds beautiful acoustic guitars and is very good at inlay so getting that fixed would be fairly cheap. My head says that my USA built Clapton Signature Strat is a much better guitar overall, but being mostly an acoustic player and never to be a lead electric kind of player (I play fingerstyle acoustic stuff mostly) I don't use it nearly to it's potential. My heart says, try to trade for the Casino because it is a very cool guitar and I love the Beatles and Keith Richards connections. (I play a bunch of that kind of music as it is what I grew up on). [/quote'] A good Strat is nice to have if you don't need the money for the other guitar. You might want to think about one of the Elitists or something like that, which for the same money or less will be in perfect condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Yeah' date=' I saw that during my research. My guess is it will raise quite a bit before ending, but I still have not seen one that had larger issues like the neck or missing inlay. [b']To me, that should qualify for a fairly hefty discount off the price[/b]. I have a luthier friend who builds beautiful acoustic guitars and is very good at inlay so getting that fixed would be fairly cheap. My head says that my USA built Clapton Signature Strat is a much better guitar overall, but being mostly an acoustic player and never to be a lead electric kind of player (I play fingerstyle acoustic stuff mostly) I don't use it nearly to it's potential. My heart says, try to trade for the Casino because it is a very cool guitar and I love the Beatles and Keith Richards connections. (I play a bunch of that kind of music as it is what I grew up on). You would think that would be the case, but when I gave up on trying to piece together a JL Rev, there was this one I was looking at that had a repaired cracked neck and had all the case candy crap, it eventually sold for $2100:-s .... yep a JL Rev with a cracked neck went for that much#-o . .... So I'm sure a 60's Casino with a repaired cracked neck would go for more $$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Here's a 1960 thin line hollowbody, I personally like that style headstock, and it's clean and at a reasonable price http://cgi.ebay.com/Epiphone-Century-thin-line-hollow-body-vintage-1962_W0QQitemZ380089388492QQihZ025QQcategoryZ118985QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 That is a nice looking guitar. I don't know anything about the Century guitars. I have been looking for a good hollow or semi hollow body electric as I feel that I would be more comfortable playing that over a Strat or Les Paul or other solid body guitars. I love playing blues and classic rock which the EC Strat is really perfect for, it's just that I would prefer something closer to an acoustic to play. I traded away a very nice acoustic for the Clapton Strat thinking it would get me into electric guitars more, but I find myself picking up my acoustic's more often. I guess I am just more of a hollow body type guy... :- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 If you don't mind down grading to a Gibson (j/p)... it's not as pretty but will do the job http://cgi.ebay.com/1950s-Gibson-ES-125-arch-top-electric-vintage-p-90_W0QQitemZ250358570644QQihZ015QQcategoryZ118985QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Here's a 12 string, and any 12 string can become a 6 string with some wire cutters http://cgi.ebay.com/1967-VINTAGE-USA-EPIPHONE-E360TD-RIVIERA-12-STRING-EXC_W0QQitemZ110339906332QQihZ001QQcategoryZ2384QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Thanks for the heads up Duane... I guess there are likely several decent hollow bodies out there. I have never been a fan of buying guitars off Ebay. I like to deal locally where I can look and play first. That way there are fewer "surprises" when you take ownership. PS.. love the "downgrade" to a Gibson comment! :- I do love my Gibson Advanced Jumbo but as far as a 60's Epiphone Casino goes, I would probably rather have that than a Gibson 330 even though they are the same just for the Beatles/Stones Mojo..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Well good-luck looking for the guitar you want is always an interesting journey..... it's sorta like looking for a new girlfriend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 ..... it's sorta like looking for a new girlfriend ....without the resultant high maintenance:-" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 ....without the resultant high maintenance:-" As long as she gets up and goes to work and stays out of the garage... what more can a guy ask for..... Perfection=d> http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=7574235 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Cosidering it's damage, and the fact that it's not going to fetch a "collectors" amount, or be as good an "investment,"....I'd (seriously) opt for an Elitist! Or, even a good condtion "Lennon" version, at that price level, rather than a damaged (no matter how well it's repaired) "original." If it was a guitar model that is no longer made, in any way, shape, or form...then maybe I'd buy it "as is?" But, that's not the case... there are lots of great "Casino's" around...especially the Lennon and Elitist verions. Anyway...just my 2-cent's worth. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Cosidering it's damage' date=' and the fact that it's not going to fetch a "collectors" amount, or be as good an "investment,"....I'd (seriously) opt for an Elitist!Or, even a good condtion "Lennon" version, at that price level, rather than a damaged (no matter how well it's repaired) "original." If it was a guitar model that is no longer made, in any way, shape, or form...then maybe I'd buy it "as is?" But, that's not the case... there are lots of great "Casino's" around...especially the Lennon and Elitist verions. Anyway...just my 2-cent's worth. CB [/quote'] I appreaciate the comment CB and will keep my eye's open for one of those too! From my lurking in this forum for awhile, I came to think of you as one of the resident experts on Epis. My biggest problem is that I am on a mutually agreed upon "Trade only" policy with my wife since we have 4 kids, 1 currently in college, 1 going next year and the last two going within the next 4 years or so. With that said, I have been having a good time over the last couple years looking for my next "Keeper". I am fortunate enough to have a guitar that is tradeable for a different type. I will never get rid of my Taylor or my Gibson AJ but the Clapton Strat is just the most recent in a fairly lengthy line of higher quality electrics to pass my way. I realize I am an acoustic guy and will never be the lead electric player I thought I would be as a younger guy. I am very happy playing my fingerstyle stuff on my acoustics and learning some blues stuff on a nice electric. One of my ambitions is to aquire a "vintage" instrument to play and keep. I just haven't stumbled onto the right one yet. In the mean time I get to play many different guitars and really have been zeroing in on what my preferences for electric guitar are. I have never had a hollow body electric which is odd since they are probably the closest to an acoustic guitar out there. If the Casino deal doesn't work out, I'll move on with no hard feelings, but man.... it would be kind of cool to own a 60's Casino and play it without worrying that I might damage it and make it less valuable. I grew up a huge fan of the Beatles and Stones so the connection has some meaning to me. In reality, if it went though and I end up with the Casino, It could very well be the keeper I have been searching for, regardless of the condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I appreaciate the comment CB and will keep my eye's open for one of those too! From my lurking in this forum for awhile' date=' I came to think of you as one of the resident experts on Epis. My biggest problem is that I am on a mutually agreed upon "Trade only" policy with my wife since we have 4 kids, 1 currently in college, 1 going next year and the last two going within the next 4 years or so. With that said, I have been having a good time over the last couple years looking for my next "Keeper". I am fortunate enough to have a guitar that is tradeable for a different type. I will never get rid of my Taylor or my Gibson AJ but the Clapton Strat is just the most recent in a fairly lengthy line of higher quality electrics to pass my way. I realize I am an acoustic guy and will never be the lead electric player I thought I would be as a younger guy. I am very happy playing my fingerstyle stuff on my acoustics and learning some blues stuff on a nice electric. One of my ambitions is to aquire a "vintage" instrument to play and keep. I just haven't stumbled onto the right one yet. In the mean time I get to play many different guitars and really have been zeroing in on what my preferences for electric guitar are. I have never had a hollow body electric which is odd since they are probably the closest to an acoustic guitar out there. If the Casino deal doesn't work out, I'll move on with no hard feelings, but man.... it would be kind of cool to own a 60's Casino and play it without worrying that I might damage it and make it less valuable. I grew up a huge fan of the Beatles and Stones so the connection has some meaning to me. In reality, if it went though and I end up with the Casino, It could very well be the keeper I have been searching for, regardless of the condition. [/quote'] Well, I'm no "expert," but an enthusiast, for sure! But, as I mentioned, good..even great Casino's are not all that scarce, so if this one doesn't work out, there will be other's! Elitist and Lennon versions, being the best..IMHO. But, the Korean and Chinese versions are more than adequate...some are quite nice, in fact! "Enjoyment," is the main thing! Good luck to you! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Well' date=' I'm no "expert," but an enthusiast, for sure! But, as I mentioned, good..even great Casino's are not all that scarce, so if this one doesn't work out, there will be other's! Elitist and Lennon versions, being the best..IMHO. But, the Korean and Chinese versions are more than adequate...some are quite nice, in fact! "Enjoyment," is the main thing! Good luck to you! CB[/quote'] I totally agree CB... Enjoyment of playing is always the main thing but sometimes the thrill of the hunt is pretty close! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 A few weeks back I got to demo a mid-60s Kalamazoo-made Epi against a 1970 Matsumoku Epi. While both sounded similar the build quality and finish on the Japanese guitar appeared to be better than that of the US-made model. According to folks who worked at Gibson, quality on all their guitars started to really go downhill around 1964 when mass production began to kick in. By '66 with the departure of Ted McCarty, further plant expansion, and the bean counters now calling the shots, employees recall shipping guitars that never would have left the factory a few years earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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