New guy back again

[karl davidson]

Thanks for all the advice - clarkuss,antiwhi2001,iphan and ronG-

 

Picked up my little vox amp today at the local guitar shop, after listerning to an epiphone standard at a gibson distributor yesterday played through most of the major brand amps -excluding vox- (still shocked at how unprofessional the gibson distrib was, such a nice shop too.)

 

This might upset you hard core epi fans, my local shop sells indie les paul shape? (I know nothing about). A little bit more money than a standard epip. I tell you what they do sound the part. "Sales talk" I guess? The shop reacons your paying for the guitar with the indie not the name,

 

sorry guy's after yesterday- I think he could be right- I think it sounded better through the vox amp than the standard epi I heard through all the amps yesterday, although I confess I did not here the epi through the a vox amp. I would maybe say perhaps even on par with the gibson I heard which was a low spec one but still expensive.

 

Whats more the brochure states the indie is solid mahogany, And i'm willing to bet it is (unless it has lead in it) It really did feel nice. Just concerned I dont know too much about various brands??

 

And I will mention for the 110th time " how come you guys dont care what your guitars are made of, I thought music was some thing to be passionate about, If you buy quality goods, are you not interested what you are paying for." The wood is all important for that minimal extra bit of difference that a defines something that is a cut above the rest.

 

Yes it might sound good, but it could sound better.

 

I wouldn't spend out on a performance car "has to perform" that could be made of light weight alloys and precious metal, or could be made of cast iron - but it's ok if you dont know because it looks good and sounds nice, wouldnt cut it for me (When you are paying for performance)

[clarkuss]

Good to hear you went into a shop and actually tried some stuff! You should go with whatever you think sounds best and what feels the best regardless of the brand.

 

Re: Woods. I so far haven't really experienced the huge differences between woods. If I'm totally honest I'm not as keen on the details of the guitar as much as I use it as a means to and end, viz - to put on a gig and play the songs I like.

 

At my current playing level and size/quality of gig venues/amps I don't see the wood of a guitar as much of a priority as the look and feel providing it sounds good enough to my ears. I'm a rythmer, singer, songwriter, performer, admirer, collector before I'm a real "guitar player" but that's just me. I've always adhered to more of a punk ethic of f**k it, plug in and play but I'm slowly learning more and more about guitars week to week.

[pohatu771]

I don't care what a guitar is made out of, as long as it sounds the way I want.

 

That doesn't mean I'm willing to pay $1000 for a guitar made of particle board, but if a particle board guitar is what sounded the best, I'd buy it, for a reasonable price.

[karl davidson]

Clarkuss,

 

I am just a novice and I know I'm getting boring. Let me explain

 

I have a small business " I do small renovations/project management etc." I do bespoke work, vaulted ceiling's staircase etc. I have a beautiful peice of wood as a lintal in my exposed weatherd brick fire place at home, it is blonde with a red is grain and changes to a green type broad grain, a slight purple tint seems to change colour slightly in the light. - like the beams in my volted lounge I sanded them several times, Tried different finishes etc. to get to image I had to create, natural/sealed and easy maintainence - not fake looking - Several projects for customers, infact all when you consider, every one has specific ideas, some insist oak, hem lock etc.

 

In my spare time I work on exotic cars, I built a 911 for track use which feature in an international magazine, I upgraded a budjet westfield to out perform a caterham 4x it's worth- I am currently building a faster version of an f3 style car, to hopefully win a championship. Every component specifically choosen,

 

so yes I'm fussy - I find it hard to believe, people will part with good money and not no exactly what it is they are paying for, I dont understand it all, but modified pots, sustain etc. seem to be neccessary? A peice of pine will sound different to a ash,oak or what ever, plus what are you paying for. except a name and a life time gaurentee.

 

That a side with all the websites people have given me, I have found epiphone-Les paul classic custom ant, les paul ultra 2 me, les paul custom eb. are suposed to be solid body mahogany? which is similar to the gibson, and other manufacturers spec for expensive guitars.

 

I have heard these websites do not actually stock these at this price? so they steer you to another purchase we will see. If they do I will buy an epip, but I wont pay good money for an inferior product.

 

They engine in this race car was rebuilt, I had my engine builder check it before I put it in the chassis. Good chassis, good running gear, job done " well sort of"

 

I will leave it alone when you all agree i' m right. lol, when I rule the world

 

 

My cars sound crisp and revy,responsive and healthy so of cause I want the very best for my money.

[RotcanX]

Whats more the brochure states the indie is solid mahogany' date=' And i'm willing to bet it is[/quote']

Yeah... so? Epiphones are solid mahogany too. Question is, what species? We've got a few Indies in our shop and yes, they are fine guitars but they're the same Asian mahogany as Epiphones. They are not Honduras mahogany.

[clarkuss]

The reason I part with my money for my guitar is the satisfaction of:

 

1. Seeing a beautiful instrument

2. Seeing no structural flaws

3. Fully working parts

4. Nice action and playability

5. When I plug it in, it gives me the sound I want

 

If I bought a guitar online and it didn't meet these requirements I'd send it back or resell it. I don't know all that much about wood and electronics at this stage of my guitar infatuation but hope to do so in the future. That's why I try to buy from reliable companies with plenty of reviews/information about their products who have their instruments in quality factories that church out great guitar after great guitar.

 

If the beatles could make a few bits of plywood stuck together sound that good then it's good enough for me!

 

However, I would never go buying blindly and accepting any old piece of junk but as more of a performer (I'm a lead singer not a guitarist) I don't have as much interest in selecting the perfect instrument as much as getting something very good and putting aiming towards perfect pop songs and live gigs.

 

In time I'd like to understand more about every aspect of the guitar and slowly upgrade as I appreciate the differences between all the models but sometimes for me guitar talk is a bit like not being able to see the wood from the trees.

 

While everyone wants the best guitar they can afford, IMO it's at least 50% about the person playing the gear as well as the rest being the gear itself.

 

Obviously you're a bit of a stickler for bespoke detail and one day I'm aiming to be able to hand pick a guitar that meets all my amassed preferences but right now my casinos are doing a pretty good job and the obvious beatles association is also a big pleaser.

[antwhi2001]

If performance is your over-riding criteria, what matters is how the instrument sounds and feels. Not what exact sub-species of wood the brochure says it's made of.

 

When it comes to wood and guitars, the definitions and difference in characteristics is so varied that there is no direct co-relation between the definition of wood/s used and the sonic performance of the instrument. The word "mahogany" covers a vast range of woods. You can make a guitar out of prime African mahogany and get a mediocre sounding guitar. You can make another out of plywood and sometimes get a comparable result. The specifications and tolerances are so broad that it's not an exact science.

 

What we're trying to tell you is the label / specification doesn't really matter. What matters is performance. Plug it into a good amplifier. Does it sound good? Does it feel good? Is it a fair price? If so, buy it. Don't get hung up on "solid mahogany". Your $4000 Gibsons may claim to be solid mahogany, and technically they are, but a lot of them are 4 or 5 different pieces bonded together. And there isn't necessarily a co-relation between weight/mass and sonic performance either.

 

I'm passionate about what my guitars sound and feel like. However, I couldn't give a flying f%%k what they're made of, or who they're made by, because 35 years experience has taught me it isn't as simple as that.

 

As I said before, if you're the sort of person who wants to know that every aspect of your instrument is the best available, there's no point buying a good value but medium quality Epiphone. The wood, structure and components will all be lower specification than a GIbson. At the risk of re-starting the old old arguments on this forum, an Epi Les Paul gives you approx. 70% of the performance of a Gibson at 40% of the price. To some of us that's an acceptable result. If you're a 100% or nothing guy, dig deeper in that wallet, but don't expect a direct co-realation between price and quality. For Gibsons, to some extent you have to pay for the name.

 

If you want to liken it to cars, I can do. (I've owned and upgraded 2 1970s Lotuses, 2 MGs and a Triumph-based kit car). The average Epi is pretty well constructed and finished in terms of the woodworking. Its' weakness is the cheap electrical components. A lot of the guys here buy an Epi because it's a good chassis to work with. They then install better electricals to move them closer to Gibson performance, while still being comfortably below the price of a Gibson. Better pots, caps, switch and socket can be bought for around £25 the lot if you can fit them yourself. Better pickups can cost more, you can spend £50 - £220 depending on spec, but again there isn't necessarily a direct correlation to performance.

 

With acoustic guitars it's more important, but with electrics the spec of the wood is not the be-all and end-all. The variables involved in actual performance are vastly more complex, and unpredictable. You're not buying a piece of wood, you're buying an instrument.

[ef_in_fla]

I am just a novice and I know I'm getting boring.

 

Well you got that last part right.

 

You do realize this is an Epiphone forum, right? Epiphones are considered budget guitars and most of us like them because they're a good bang for the buck. Many of us would be playing Gibson, PRS, Taylor, Martin, or any number of high-end boutique custom shop stuff if we had the dough. So I think you're sort of barking up the wrong tree here. If my guitar looks good and sounds good, why should I really care what sort of wood it's made from? I seriously doubt I'll be sawing through it anytime soon.

[brianh]

Many of us would be playing Gibson' date=' PRS, Taylor, Martin, or any number of high-end boutique custom shop stuff if we had the dough.[/quote']

True enough. My choice is either buy a collection of MIJ/MIK/MIC Epis and MIM Fenders, or save up and buy one or two "real" MIA Gibson, Fender, PRS, Taylor, Martin, etc. I might still do that if some cash falls in my lap (not likely under the current state of economic affairs), but at 53 I've only got a few decades of playing left in me, so no time to waste saving up for increasingly unaffordable guit fiddles.

 

Also, when you get a really nice collectable guitar and try to use it regularly it just gets banged up, so why bother. I play and collect for fun and leave the investment/speculation to those with gobs of discretionary income. Epis are the answer to the avid guitar player/collector/tinkerer on a budget.

 

And if you look around, there are some older, under-rated and under-appreciated models made of solid, "real" mahogany (no veneers), should that be a major hangup. Honduras, I don't know, but built like a tank, heavy as hell, and sustain like you read about.