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Headstock angle


dmeds

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Does anyone here know if the headstock angle of a Epi LP is the same as a Gibson LP? I have both and never really noticed if there was a difference until I read that all Gibson LP's have a 17deg. pitch. Somehow the two do not appear to be the same and I don't have the tools to make the measurement. Thanks in advance!

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Yeah the angle is slightly smaller on the Epiphones' date=' and I think that may make a very slight different in sound. I'm not sure on this, but I think the larger angle on the Gibsons help with sustain.

 

But I'm just guessing here...[/quote']

 

That's always how it has been explained to me that the added degree aids sustain. The Epiphone Les Pauls made in Japan with the open book headstock have the 17 deg. angled headstock but they are constructed closer to a Gibson than the MIC or MIK Les Pauls.

 

mgm

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The Elitist series has a 14 degree headstock angle. The made-in- Japan Lennon Casinos and Elitist McCartney Texan do have 17 degree headstock angles, true to the original vintage guitars. I believe the John Lee Hooker Shaeraton does as well, though I don't have one of those, so someone else will have to confirm.

 

The therory is that there is more downward force exerted on the strings at the nut when the headstock angle is steeper, which would aid tone and sustain.

 

Red 333

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The Elitist series has a 14 degree headstock angle. The made-in- Japan Lennon Casinos and Elitist McCartney Texan do have 17 degree headstock angles' date=' true to the original vintage guitars. I believe the John Lee Hooker Shaeraton does as well, though I don't have one of those, so someone else will have to confirm.

 

The therory is that there is more downward force exerted on the strings at the nut when the headstock angle is steeper, which would aid tone and sustain.

 

Red 333 [/quote']

 

I'm sorry I didn't mean Elitist I was referencing the Epiphone Japan market Les Pauls.

 

 

mgm

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Gibson uses a 17° headstock angle. Epiphone uses 14°.

 

True. Gibson currently uses a 17 degree headstock angle, but has not always. The following might be of interest to those with older Gibsons.

 

In 1966, Gibson changed the headstock angle from 17 to 14 degrees in order to strengthen the neck behind the truss rod adjustment cavity. The 14 degree angle adds more wood. They would also use a volute (an extra protusion of wood) in the same area from '69 to '81.

 

Gibson returned to the original 17 degree headstock angle in 1973.

 

Red 333

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I'm sorry I didn't mean Elitist I was referencing the Epiphone Japan market Les Pauls.

 

 

mgm

 

I thought you were very clear. I just didn't want anyone inferring that all MIJ Epis would have the same headstock angle. Sorry if it seemed like I was correcting you. Just firing these post off between other stuff.

 

Red 333

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I thought you were very clear. I just didn't want anyone inferring that all MIJ Epis would have the same headstock angle. Sorry if it seemed like I was correcting you. Just firing these post off between other stuff.

 

Red 333

 

It's all good, I usually don't explain myself well because I'm multi-tasking. Did Gibson have a problem with headstock fractures causing them to change in 1966?

 

mgm

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It's all good' date=' I usually don't explain myself well because I'm multi-tasking. Did Gibson have a problem with headstock fractures causing them to change in 1966?

 

mgm[/quote']

 

Me too. I was replacing a fence all weekend, and just got the two posts in this thread off between rounds of nailing pickets to the rails.

 

Yeah, Gibson necks are notorious for breaking in the area behind the hollowed-out truss rod adjustment cavity. Next time you do a truss rod adjustment, take a look--there's not a lot of wood there! They changed the headstock angle from 17 to 14 degrees because it leaves a bit more.

 

That's why they added the volute, too. If you haven't seen one, a volutte is a protusion of wood that adds thickness. Some players feel it interferes with their hand or (especially) thumb, so Gibson eventually eliminated them.

 

1966 is when all this began to go down becasue Gibson was acquired by the Norlin Company, which was a conglomorate with lots of different holdings (none which had to with music, I think). Norlin management was looking to increase profits by reducing the number of warranty claims, and was willing to sacrifice tone and playability to do so. This type of thinking lead to a general decline in quality, especially in the acoustics, which became heavily overbraced to prevent tops from sinking and necks having to be reset. Eventually, though, players got their way, and owners more respectful of Ginson's heritage bought the company before it was completely run into the ground.

 

Red 333

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It takes a thicker block of expensive wood to create the 17 degree headstock, since the neck blank has to be deeper. A good strap and a set of strap locks goes a long way toward preventing headstock breakage. One loose strap and OOPS!

 

And, Check Those Strap Buttons Frequently!!

 

If you wind your strings downward on the pegs, you increase the angle of the strings at the nut and emulate a higher degree angle with either headstock design.

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Compared to a Strat where the strings run straight through.

A 14º degree headstock-angle, equals a 24% increase in pressure/force from string on the nut.

A 18º degree headstock-angle, equals a 31% increase in pressure/force from string on the nut.

This generally has a positive effect on tone and sustain.

String-tension increases somewhat but is compensated by the shorter scale.

 

You think headstock-angle is just for decoration?

There is a reason a Strat uses string-retainers...

 

Have a look at this here old lute...:-

 

instrument-lute.jpg

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Me too. I was replacing a fence all weekend' date=' and just got the two posts in this thread off between rounds of nailing pickets to the rails.

 

Yeah, Gibson necks are notorious for breaking in the area behind the hollowed-out truss rod adjustment cavity. Next time you do a truss rod adjustment, take a look--there's not a lot of wood there! They changed the headstock angle from 17 to 14 degrees because it leaves a bit more.

 

That's why they added the volute, too. If you haven't seen one, a volutte is a protusion of wood that adds thickness. Some players feel it interferes with their hand or (especially) thumb, so Gibson eventually eliminated them.

 

1966 is when all this began to go down becasue Gibson was acquired by the Norlin Company, which was a conglomorate with lots of different holdings (none which had to with music, I think). Norlin management was looking to increase profits by reducing the number of warranty claims, and was willing to sacrifice tone and playability to do so. This type of thinking lead to a general decline in quality, especially in the acoustics, which became heavily overbraced to prevent tops from sinking and necks having to be reset. Eventually, though, players got their way, and owners more respectful of Ginson's heritage bought the company before it was completely run into the ground.

 

Red 333 [/quote']

 

Great info Red! It's interesting that a buisness decision to save money on warranty claims probaly cost them some new guitar sales during that era I would imagine. Thanks!

 

mgm

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