hemply Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 I've been looking at a vintage 1967 J-200 Custom w/ Hornet style neck for a couple of months now. I've wanted a Jumbo or Super Jumbo for some time, I just love their full bodied tone! A few months back I had my eye on a 1968 J-200 Custom w/ Hornet neck and was ready to pull the trigger only too find out the guitar player from "The Roots" beat me to it by two days! Ugh! So I asked the guy acting as the broker to keep on searching and he came up with the 1967! The '67 is a little more costly than the '68, at $5499.00. It's in another state and I have to put half down in good faith to bring it to me. Today I stopped in my local guitar store to get a set up done on my G0 1960 LPC VOS and spot a "Lowden" acoustic 6 string. I was looking her over and found out she is hand made in Ireland (no machines used at all). She is gorgeous with ornate wood binding, ebony tuners and fretboard, and its also electric but with no controls? So I play her for a bit and am completely blown away by the sound coming from this guitar! It just came into the store last week and is used, she has a few dings in her but nothing major. She's listing for $2500.00. So it seems I now find myself in a predicament. I'm really digging this Lowden and even played a new SJ-200 next to the Lowden, there was no comparison between the two. The Lowden was fuller and even more rich in tone than the SJ-200! The '67 J-200 has to be shipped up out to my dealer and I have no idea if it even plays? I have to put out half the cash for something I have no idea if its any good a all, or I can snap up the Lowden for about half the price of the Vintage? I'm not sure how I will tell my broker friend since he has done all the leg work to find the '67 for me, but then again he has secured for me three high end guitars in the past 5 months. What would you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rscott4079 Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 I say buy both. But seriously, the half down is a security deposit, right? If you don't like it, send it back, get your cash back and buy the Lowden. Or, if the Lowden floats your boat, just go for it. Trying to choose between two great guitars is a happy dilemma. Congrats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefleppard Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 true...an j-200 is hard to say no to but in the end you gotta go with what sounds the best. to hear some nice, lush lowden - check out damien rice. his records beautifully. and 2500 sounds like a steal - they are much more brand new.of all the great advice that this forum has to offer, playing a guitar before buying seems to get mentioned most often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnt Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Top range Lowdens are stunning but a bit rich for me! Anyone who doesn't know them take a look http://web.mac.com/gsl71/George_Lowden_Website/Welcome.html Sounds a great price too depending on model. the site has a US price list so you can see what sort of deal's on the table! To paraphrase Edith Piaf you'll "regret rien" but then again there are many J200 owners who are dissapointed with their purchase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballcorner Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 You haven't said which model the Lowden is, but I assume it is one of the jumbo bodies since that is what you are looking for in a Gibson. I have handled many Lowdens, and I would always give them high marks for bass and mids but I find the trebles a bit pingy - they seem to have a snappy attack and then fade rapidly. This is a great guitar for Celtic music, for example, or playing behind a fiddle player, but I have noticed over the past ten years or so that major artists have lost interest in the brand. Typically, the Lowdens have cedar tops in the jumbo models and this makes for amazing low end. If you play in any open tunings, this guitar is hard to beat. What I did find on the negative end, however, is that Lowdens have something of a unique sound and don't always blend well with other guitars. They overpower on the low end and fail to come through on a treble lead with a partner like a J45 and against a Martin it just becomes bass mud. If you play much with other people, you might want to think it over before pulling the trigger on the Lowden. As far as your vintage purchase is concerned, my question would always be the same: What could you get custom made in Bozeman for $5000+ -- and might that be a better purchase in the long run than the vintage instrument? As a broker/dealer I can tell you the seller purchases the vintage guitar for around $3200 and then perhaps does a bit of repair work. If you really want a vintage piece, I would encourage you to look around for the person who is selling at $3200 and take it to the doctor yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemply Posted July 13, 2008 Author Share Posted July 13, 2008 I'm not really sure which model to Lowden is but it is definately a Jumbo body. I've played it a total of two times and you would think I would ask the model? DoH! I guess I was so enamored by the sound that it really doesn't matter? It is a very ornate piece with decorative binding along the body as well as the neck binding and the ebony tuners which is something I have never come across before ( don't get out of my cage that much). It IS a cedar top. I will give the store a call when they open at 11am and get the exact model. The one thing that kind of freaks me out is the 9v battery that powers the internal pickup, just inside the sound hole. I have visions of the battey exploding and spewing battery acid all over the inside of the axe! I do play most of my original stuff in open tunings and I really put her through the floor yesterday while I was messing around with her and she seems to handle my "rougher" style of playing as easily as she handles the more articulate classical style I also utilize in my style of playing. Overall I'm satisfied with the highs, mids, and lows however there seems to been just a little something lacking in the brightness of the overall sound. It just seems that for something that is almost perfect to me in every way should have just a little more edge in the brightness dept. but that could just be me? Maybe different strings? I really didn't find any problem with the sustain at all and actually was quiet happy with the sustain from this particular axe. I was hard pressed too find any problems with the overall sound of this instrument and not only feel it would be a good addition to my "sound" but its an axe I can see having for the rest of my life. Mind you I have never heard of Lowden until I came across this axe. Actually the guys at the store who have gotten to know me pretty well handed the axe to me and insisted I check it out... good looking out! I also have never heard of Bozeman but should take a look at them since I'm willing to drop $5k on an acoustic in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Re vintage. Bozeman is making some pretty good sounding and playing guitars under the Gibson brand, so the key factors that drive the vintage market --tone and feel-are non-factors. What's left is the romance of vintage, the cool factor. For which one pays a preimuim, and inherits all the issues of wear and changes over time. As for Lowdens, a playing partner of mine had one. To my ear, it was not exceptional. Kind of thuddy, not a lot of ring to it. Better for plectrum style. To each their own, of course, but a good j200 Id think would be more versitile. I have handled many Lowdens .. I find the trebles a bit pingy - they seem to fade rapidly. This is a great guitar for Celtic music or playing behind a fiddle player if you play in any open tunings [dadgad?], I think BC has a good point here. The thump/ping is better for backing than solo play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemply Posted July 13, 2008 Author Share Posted July 13, 2008 Ok so it turns out the Lowden is a model "35" Series, Rosewood/Sitka Spruce. I am assuming it is the Indian Rosewood since it retails at $5575.00, the Braz/Sitka retails at $10,125.00! So $2499.00 aint that bad of a price cut either way! Gonna have to think long and hard on this one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefleppard Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 The one thing that kind of freaks me out is the 9v battery that powers the internal pickup' date=' just inside the sound hole. I have visions of the battey exploding and spewing battery acid all over the inside of the axe! Iquote'] i've never seen a battery explode. i think this would only happen in a case of negligence. on another note, i sense you are feeling as though you are 'cheating' on gibson by liking another brand. gibson makes great stuff as we all know, electric and acoustic, but there are other fine makers out there. the lowden sounds like a fine guitar to me and the dominating factor is that you like the sound. i priced them when i heard damien rice's sound and i wanted one. when i saw the list price, my first reaction was that for the price of this boutique item i could furnish my entire studio. (which i did) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Garrett Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 For me it would be the Lowden simply because you've had the chance to lay your hands on the guitar and it speaks to you. The Gibson across the country may speak to you as well but you never know till you play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemply Posted July 13, 2008 Author Share Posted July 13, 2008 The one thing that kind of freaks me out is the 9v battery that powers the internal pickup' date=' just inside the sound hole. I have visions of the battey exploding and spewing battery acid all over the inside of the axe! Iquote'] i've never seen a battery explode. i think this would only happen in a case of negligence. on another note, i sense you are feeling as though you are 'cheating' on gibson by liking another brand. gibson makes great stuff as we all know, electric and acoustic, but there are other fine makers out there. the lowden sounds like a fine guitar to me and the dominating factor is that you like the sound. i priced them when i heard damien rice's sound and i wanted one. when i saw the list price, my first reaction was that for the price of this boutique item i could furnish my entire studio. (which i did) Yeah come to think of it usually it is AA's that explode in my camera, never had a 9v explode in my effects pedals and I STOMP on them! lol I don't feel I am cheating on Gibson at all; I have long admired the J and SJ-200's. Plus I own other brands and IMO they are fine. I would put my PRS McCarty Korina up against my '68 LPC Historic w/ 57's any day of the week in a tone contest! This "Lowden" really speaks to me in so many ways. I actually was in the store the day she came in, though I only played her briefly, opting for some quick classical style pieces, soft finger picking. I was amazed by this 35's abilities to resonate the most sublte pp, mp, p and it's ability to produce a strong harmonic that I can't get from my other acoustic guitar with such clarity and strength. Yesterday I went into the store and played her with a vengeance! Yup the same response from the 35! What I do feel bad about it disappointing the man who did all the leg work too find the 1967 J-200 and it's a Custom too boot! He is a good man to have on your side, he just found an acquaintance a vintage 1957 Fender Tele "White Guard"stock! Then I stood by and watched it be systematically dismantled to check for authenticity! You could smell the 1950's! So I don't want to upset that balance that he and I enjoy. Damn I might just have to get both guitars? Hmmm this is not good. I promised myself only one more guitar until 2009! Why would I pass up on a Vintage 1967 J-200 Custom with the Hornet Neck? :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I have to agree with others - buying any Gibson you ain't held in your sweaty little hands is a crap shoot. Add to this the fact that Gibson's reputation by '67, with their growing emphasis on putting out more guitars while cutting costs, ain't the best. On the other hand, while Ted McCarty had retired Larry Allers and many of the folks who had built the guitars for decades remained so it is possible to get yourself a good one. Regarding the '67, you might check to see if the metal tune-o-matic bridge has been removed which many folks did. Not 100% sure but this model may also have had the suspended top brace which many folks also removed. If they are gone see if the seller has the original parts. It will make a difference if you ever have to sell the guitar. Anyway, GOOD LUCK with the hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballcorner Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I also have never heard of Bozeman but should take a look at them since I'm willing to drop $5k on an acoustic in the first place? Bozeman, Montana is where the Gibson acoustics are made. Bozeman is not a separate brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemply Posted July 13, 2008 Author Share Posted July 13, 2008 I have to agree with others - buying any Gibson you ain't held in your sweaty little hands is a crap shoot. Add to this the fact that Gibson's reputation by '67' date=' with their growing emphasis on putting out more guitars while cutting costs, ain't the best. On the other hand, while Ted McCarty had retired Larry Allers and many of the folks who had built the guitars for decades remained so it is possible to get yourself a good one. Regarding the '67, you might check to see if the metal tune-o-matic bridge has been removed which many folks did. Not 100% sure but this model may also have had the suspended top brace which many folks also removed. If they are gone see if the seller has the original parts. It will make a difference if you ever have to sell the guitar. Anyway, GOOD LUCK with the hunt.[/quote'] This is her I also found another but it had saddles in the bridge which I didn't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 That Gibby looks nice in the photos, but if you think about it, its not really "vintage" (ie golden era bracing and so forth) but just old. Gibson, er, Norlin, had bulked up the bracing and bridgeplates and thickened pickguards enough by then to compromise tone. Now, these pieces that gave rise to the vintage market can command vintage prices. Go figure. But does that mean the Lowden is the it box? J200s and RW jumbos are apples and oranges. Maybe the Lowden, is suggesting that mpl jumbos were less attractive than anticipated (certainly they dont have the big bass). But a keeper? With this big a jump it might be a good idea to A/B other rosewood jumbos (Martin J40?), hogs (Taylor GAS?) or even a Bozeman j200, which might actually better display mpl in all its glory. Just a thought. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefleppard Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 once again, jk has nailed it. there is a huge difference between vintage and old. it has also been said, throughout several threads, many 'conceed' that the stuff bozeman is building now blows away some of the old stuff. don't worry about your footwork man. just thank him for his work. its all you owe him. it is you and only you that has to live with the ($$$$$) choice at the end of the day and there will be little to no skin off the arse of your friend. and now for something completely different...a blessing from the lord.... BUY THE LOWDEN, MY SON. and stop grovelling. just like those psalms - sOOOOO depressing!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemply Posted July 13, 2008 Author Share Posted July 13, 2008 I'll put a deposit on the Lowden when I go in to pick up my G0. Now I just have too find me some of these Bozeman builts to check out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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